The "Ask a Lutheran" Thread!

[JonNC]

What is the Lutheran church’s teaching on abortion? I heard that at least one “branch” (sorry of that’s the wrong terminology) holds the position that abortion is not inherently evil, but that it is left up to each woman to decide for herself.

Thank you for the insights and information you are providing here!

My posting will be from the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS).

Q. **What is the Missouri Synod’s view of abortion? **

A. The LCMS believes that abortion is contrary to God’s Word and “is not a moral option except, except as a tragically unavoidable byproduct of medical procedures necessary to prevent the death of another human being, viz., the mother” (1979 Res. 3-02A). Official synodical resolutions and other materials on this topic are available from the Synod’s Commission on Theology and Church Relations (CTCR).

Some other statments on life and moral issues can be found here:
lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2537

I suspect your reference to “one branch” is the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA). There are ELCA members here, and I will let them speak for themselves.

Hope that helps,
Jon

 

[workingman]

What is the opinion on the Lutheran Study Bible? I have not yet obtained a copy.

 

[JonNC]

What is the opinion on the Lutheran Study Bible? I have not yet obtained a copy.

Haven’t gotten it yet.

Jon

 

[Jehuty_X]

// question…what bible translation (default) does the lutheran church use???

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

I heard that at one time Luther wanted to throw the book of Revelation in a river or something, is this true?

 

[jessep28]

What is the opinion on the Lutheran Study Bible? I have not yet obtained a copy.

Which Lutheran Study Bible?

Augsburg Fortress (ELCA) and Concordia Publishing House (LCMS) both released new study bibles this year using Lutheran Study Bible in the title. Although I think Augburg’s version omits “The” from the title.

Anyways, I received my copy of The Lutheran Study Bible (Concordia) a couple weeks ago and I really like it so far. It will be a resource I will be able to rely on for years.

 

[jessep28]

// question…what bible translation (default) does the lutheran church use???

I know that the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod a few years ago adopted the English Standard Version as its preferred translation. The Lutheran Study Bible just released by Concordia uses the ESV translation.

However, in practice, you still see a lot of New International Version material being used at the congregational level. My congregation still uses NIV.

 

[AwGusTeen]

What impact (if any) did the German Flagellants movement during the black death have on the development of Luther’s theology?
Thanks!

 

[James1982]

I know that the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod a few years ago adopted the English Standard Version as its preferred translation. The Lutheran Study Bible just released by Concordia uses the ESV translation.

However, in practice, you still see a lot of New International Version material being used at the congregational level. My congregation still uses NIV.

Every WELS church I’ve been to uses NIV as the standard translation as well.

 

[James1982]

What is the Lutheran church’s teaching on abortion? I heard that at least one “branch” (sorry of that’s the wrong terminology) holds the position that abortion is not inherently evil, but that it is left up to each woman to decide for herself.

Thank you for the insights and information you are providing here!

Here’s the Wisconsin position:

In 1979 the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod adopted a resolution at its synodical convention which stated, in part, “our synod has historically testified against abortion, except when it is medically necessary to save the life of the mother.”

For the full text of that resolution go to:
wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?2617&collectionID=795&contentID=4444&shortcutID=5295

Christian Life Resources, a pro-life, pro-family agency affiliated with the WELS came out with an expanded resolution of its own on abortion. The abstract reads as follows:

“Human life is a gift from God. He begins human life at conception. He also reserves for himself the authority to take human life. Aborting an unborn child for any reason, other than to preserve a human life, is contrary to the will of God and therefore is wrong.”

The full statement on abortion from Christian Life Resources can be found at:

ChristianLifeResources.com/?7649

Basically, it’s unthinkable unless necessary to preserve the mother’s life. Note: not for the overall “health” - to preserve human life:

When a pregnancy occurs there are now two lives (or more in the case of a multiple pregnancy) to consider. There are the very rare occasions where the presence of the unborn child creates a mental or physical health issue for the mother. Equally, there are times where the mother, by her actions or circumstance, presents a risk for her unborn child. Both are of equal concern to a Christian.

It is emotionally appealing today to argue for the termination of the unseen person (the unborn child) in favor of the seen person. In fact, modern feminists no longer hide behind the shroud of saying “we don’t know when life begins.” Naomi Wolf readily admitted that in abortion a life is lost. Camille Paglia went even further to state that abortion truly is “murder.” Yet, both of these women favor the seen over against the unseen and ardently defend a woman’s right to kill her unborn and unseen child.

God’s Word does not allow for such preferential treatment. The existence of a human life is a blessing given by God (Psalm 127:3-5). As such, our relationship with a blessing is not as a owner over an object but as a steward over a trust (Luke 19:11-27). We are charged with protecting and caring for life (1 Timothy 5:8). In fact, our concern for others is to be equal to or exceed our concern for ourselves (Philippians 2:3-8).

There is increasing evidence that abortion also carries with it a risk to the mental health (post-abortion syndrome) and physical health (abortion - breast cancer relationship) of the mother. Speaking from a worldly viewpoint, depending on how one wants to judge the statistical information, having the abortion may simply replace one risk with another.

Because Jesus died for the sins of all people and the accountable state of personhood exists in the sight of God at conception (Psalm 51:5), we cannot give preferential treatment to “health” over against “life.” Tending to the mental and physical health of others is part of our stewardship over lives and represents the sacrificial concern that we can show to others (Philippians 4:5). Such loving concern for others is commendable unless we sin in order to do it. Killing the unborn life in order to help the mental or physical health of another would be a sin, for it usurps God’s authority over life and death (Deuteronomy 32:39). The matter of abortion to protect a woman’s “life” (called the “exception clause”) is a different one, for there is the tension of losing both lives or saving only one. It is a discussion addressed elsewhere in the WELSNET Q & A forum.

All of these quotes come from WELS.net.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I have noticed a trend on the forums - people do not seem to understand what Lutherans believe. So I wanted to make a thread to consolidate any questions or comments you might have about Lutheranism. It could be about our doctrine, our history, the differences between our Synods, what to expect in a Lutheran liturgy, etc. Anything you can think of! I (and I’m sure my fellow Lutherans) would be happy to explain our beliefs and teach about our faith.

Do Lutherans today distance themselves from some of the teachings of Luther?

 

[James1982]

There are two principal differences between the WELS and the LCMS. The first is their respective understandings of church fellowship. The WELS has a ‘unit’ concept of fellowship; they believe that all aspects of fellowship are on the same level. This means that altar fellowship is placed on the same level as prayer fellowship. As such, WELS are very careful about prayer and will generally not pray publicly with those who are not in communion with their Synod. The LCMS has historically distinguished between types of fellowship; i.e. an LCMS pastor will not (or should not anyway) commune someone who is not LCMS or one of her sister churches abroad. However, an LCMS pastor may pray with Christians of other denominations.

The second large difference is regarding the office of the holy ministry. The LCMS teaches that the pastoral office is distinctly ordained by Christ, and therefore should be thought of in a different light than other functions of the ministry (i.e. teachers and elders, etc.) The LCMS sees these different offices as being created by man for the benefit of the church and to fulfill her purpose, whereas the WELS Theses on Church and Ministry states that the pastoral office is not instituted apart from the other offices of the church.

One other difference is that women can vote on congregational matters in most LCMS congregations (an LCMS congregation’s constitution, rather than the Synod, determines this for each congregation) whereas women are not permitted to vote in the Wisconsin Synod.

It should be noted, though that the WELS and LCMS agree 99% of the time. Specifically with the current questions of female ordination and homosexual marriage/ordination, the LCMS and WELS have been in lock-step together. They have the same understanding of the role and nature of Holy Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions in the life of the church.

I pray daily for our misguided brothers in the ELCA. To be honest, the most liberal 1% of the ELCA happens to be the 1% guiding the direction of the church. At my home LCMS congregation, we have received about 100 phone calls over the past few weeks from scared ELCA members who want to learn about conversion to the LCMS. There are many more conservative church members in the ELCA than the public perceives. The problem is that the ELCA gives their congregations too much autonomy.

I believe that there will soon be another split. I hope that the conservative faction of the ELCA will merge into either the LCMS or WELS, rather than creating a new church body (which is the last thing we need.)

The “unit concept” is a frustrating thing to live with. Essentially, it says, I could not pray with my Missouri Synod sister-in-law. Which I will admit up front is ridiculous on its face. I have other personal reasons that I stay within the WELS synod, but my theology strongly leans toward LCMS where the “unit concept” is concerned.

ELCA is a tricky case, because the synod got by for so long by fashioning statements and doctrine in such broad and permissive terms that one could really do as they wished and still could claim to be fully unified in theology with the rest. This homosexual ordination thing might be the straw that broke the camel’s back, though. You can only paper over so much.

What would be really nice is if LCMS, WELS, and the more conservative factions in ELCA got together. It would be nice to have a “definitive” American synod to point to as the standard-bearer for traditional, conservative, confessional Lutheranism. It won’t happen, but it would be nice.

 

[Nominefili]

Do Lutherans today distance themselves from some of the teachings of Luther?

I’m not sure what you’re getting at with this question. But if you’re asking whether Lutherans necessarily believe in everything that Luther believed in, the answer would be no. Luther held certain doctrines, particularly the immaculate conception and the semper virgo, which the Lutheran church has distanced itself from. We have generally left it up to the individual rather than establishing firm synodical positions on them, as we don’t consider those beliefs to be necessary for salvation.

 

[spoiltvictorian]

What is the opinion on the Lutheran Study Bible? I have not yet obtained a copy.

I love it. I enjoyed using the Reformed Reformation Study Bible for years, but this is much better. I do wish that quotes from the Book of Concord, especially from the Small Catechism, would have been inserted into the exposition and commentary along with explanation from modern writers.

 

[revrr]

Good idea for a thread!

Someone asked, “Do Lutherans distance themselves from Luther?”

I think it’s important to add that the name “Lutheran,” in many ways, refers more to a style of theology than to the entire corpus of the theological writings and thoughts of one person.

In other words, the writings of other theologians are actually more authoritative in the Lutheran Church than the vast majority of the writings of Luther. These writings were not private writings, as most of Luther’s writings are, but public confessions of faith. Regional churches “subscribed” to these writings a symbols of faith along with the Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian creeds.

The label “Lutheran,” on a worldwide scale, is pretty broad, but almost by definition, all Lutherans hold to a document written by a man named Philip Melancthon to be the most authoritative symbol of the Lutheran Church, after the three ancient creeds.

Conservative, confessional Lutherans (like the LCMS) subscribe to all of the symbols contained in a book entitled, “The Book of Concord.” They believe that these writings are an authoritative statement of faith which they believe is correct because it is in agreement with Scripture. Other Lutherans (mostly “liberal”) view these writings as being more historic than as symbols which bind their faith today.

 

[Lutheranteach]

Do Lutherans today distance themselves from some of the teachings of Luther?

I think what you see today is that there are some Catholics (and others) who believe that Lutherans believe Martin Luther to be somehow infallible in all things. That could not be further from the truth, and I suspect most Lutherans if presented with all of Luther’s writings on every subject would say the man missed the boat on some things. ( I don’t think the Pope is the anti-Christ, nor do I hate jews) That said, all the branches of Lutheranism accept what is found in the Augsburg Confession as a true witness to the Gospel.

 

[crazzeto]

Mind if I paste in a question I put in the “ask a baptist” thread? I think it would be helpful for me to have answers from a variaty of Protestant points of view:

Thanks for starting this thread, I think it will be helpful to have a dedicated means for us Catholics (and Orthodox) to ask why you guys believe what you beleive… Hopefully in a totally less confrontational tone

I do have one question, I understand that with in protistism in general there is this idea that the Church is “invisible”, or in other words spirit only. I understand that the justification for this is that, as long as “essential” doctrine is all the same, the rest just doesn’t amount to much. So I have a few questions regarding this, especially in light of the S. Baptist tradition of strict Sola Fide.

So I understand the justification for the church having a spirit, and the Catholic church doesn’t disagree. In part this comes from the “cloud” described from Paul. But regarding doctrine, at what point in the bible does it say there is essential as opposed to non-essential doctrine? How from scripture do we know the church is spirit only?

I’d like to take a second to expound on this idea by bringing up specific doctrinal disagreements I know exist with in the protistant church, which seem essential to me.

Real Presense
Some protistant churches beleive in the real presence of the lord in the “Lords Supper”, or as we Catholics call it the Holy Eucharist. Most do not, I imagine that those who do also beleive John 6 “Unless you eat my flesh, and drink my blood you have no life with in you”, I’m not sure what protestants who don’t beleive in real presence think here.

How often to Celebrate the “Lords Supper”, or Holy Communion
Again, some protestants seem to think this should be every service, most others disagree.

I have one more, but I can’t think of it right now. Anyway, I’m curious what your views are on this subject, thanks.

 

[gcnuss]

My posting will be from the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS).
(snip)
I suspect your reference to “one branch” is the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA). There are ELCA members here, and I will let them speak for themselves.

The ELCA has a Social Statement on Abortion adopted in 1991. You can find it here:

elca.org/What-We-Believe/Social-Issues/Social-Statements/Abortion.aspx

I am not very enthusiastic about the Social Statement. I don’t think that it covers the subject very well and that is too ambiguous in many places.

At the same time, I don’t want the church to be involved in political debates about abortion or in seeking to criminalize abortions. However, I think the church has a responsibility to emphasize and to teach moral values including the sanctity of the gift of life and the proper place of sexual (and reproductive) activity – within the bonds of matrimony.

 

[spoiltvictorian]

The ELCA has a Social Statement on Abortion adopted in 1991. You can find it here:

elca.org/What-We-Believe/Social-Issues/Social-Statements/Abortion.aspx

I am not very enthusiastic about the Social Statement. I don’t think that it covers the subject very well and that is too ambiguous in many places.

At the same time, I don’t want the church to be involved in political debates about abortion or in seeking to criminalize abortions. However, I think the church has a responsibility to emphasize and to teach moral values including the sanctity of the gift of life and the proper place of sexual (and reproductive) activity – within the bonds of matrimony.

Wow, that is a horrible thing for a church to publish. I want to cry.

 

[jessep28]

Mind if I paste in a question I put in the “ask a baptist” thread? I think it would be helpful for me to have answers from a variaty of Protestant points of view:

Regarding the Lord’s Supper, Lutherans do believe that Christ’s body and blood are present in the Sacrament of the Alter. However, we don’t go as far as believing in transubstantiation.

On the frequency of Communion, in practice it’s really a matter of congregational preference. In most LCMS Lutheran churches, you either see the Eucharist celebrated weekly or bi-weeky. I think the primary argument against having weekly Communion is that it would water down the significance of receiving Christ’s body and blood, which is I think is a garbage argument. In my humble opinion, I think it’s because there is a conception that weekly Communion is a “Roman Catholic thing,” just like making the sign of the cross.

But I am more high church than most. Maybe some more moderate Lutherans can chime in.