"The Baha'i Faith"

[PaulDupre]

Jack says that all interpretation of scriptures (Quran, Bible, ect.), which he claims is “the book”, cannot be totally true until “the book” is opened by the second coming of Christ which he claims is Bahá’u’lláh.

The bible says that when Jesus comes again, he will come in the clouds of heaven with all his angels and saints with him. It will be seen by everyone all at the same time, from the rising to the setting of the sun. There will be no mistake.

It will not be some 19th century guy from Iran who gloms on to the b’abist movement, declares himself its fulfillment, marries 3 women, starts writing books and gathers a following of gullible souls over a few hundred years.

Here is one of the descriptions of the real second coming:

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

• Matt 24:26-31

I don’t recall any power, great glory or angels associated with Bahá’u’lláh.

It is essential that people read and understand the bible so that they cannot be led astray into these phoney “second comings” of whom there are so many.

 

[DavidMark]

I don’t recall any power, great glory or angels associated with Bahá’u’lláh.

Every eye can see. Blind eyes cannot see. I’m talking about spiritual vision. Lots of people saw Jesus. To call Baha’u’llah a “guy” who arrogated to Himself powers was common, and Jesus Himself was called a liar and Beelzebub. So, bub, if you haven’t seen the myriads of angels who are calling the elect from the far corners of the erath, it’s because you have no vision. Even the visually impaired can see the Light of ths Day. Helen Keller said in a personal letter:
*“The philosophy of Baha’u’llah deserves the best thought we can give it…I take this opportunity to thank you for your kind thought of me, and for the inspiration which even the most cursory (Braille) reading of Baha’u’llah’s life cannot fail to impart. What nobler theme than the “good of the world and the happiness of the nations” can occupy our lives? The message of universal peace will surely prevail. It is useless to combine or conspire against an idea which has in it potency to create a new earth and a new heaven and to quicken human beings with a holy passion of service.” *
This is what Baha’u’llah brought: a renewal of faith in the promise of peace, which is “not only possible but inevitable”. Whether it is economic pressure or wisdom, we will see “swords beaten into plowshares” and the golden age of mankind will stretch into the far future. This will not come about through any other means than the Holy Spirit from Baha’u’llah in this Day.
You are free to reject, ignore, oppose, whatever, but we Bahá’ís are simply trying to convey, that this is also a community of faith, and it is taking its rightful place on the world stage, and preparing the way for those whose hearts yearn to make the “ascent of Mount Carmel”…and to lie down like flocks, in the Valley of Achor, in the eye of the military socio-political hurricane that is Israel. Watch, just keep watching, and let’s try to be guarded in our speech.

**If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. **(1 Corinthians 13:1 RSV)
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. (Matthew 15:11)
**Say: O people! Fear ye God, and allow not your tongues to utter, in their deceitfulness, that which displeaseth Him. ** (Bahá’u’lláh, Suriy-i-Haykal #52)

 

[vivs3]

hey guys,
so I have this friend yeah and he’s Bahai (& Persian ha what a coincidence), and we had quite a lot of convos and I asked him many questions about his Faith and he ask me questions about my Faith.
So they say “Their religion is the right one FOR THIS AGE” ok and they also believe in “unity” and that all the messangers that have come from God are all the same, and that it’s from the same God. So I asked him why is it that there are different religions if they are all the same messangers and he was like because the messangers came in different times which created different religions and I was like fair enough.
And we all know they believe that the second coming has already come, and his name was Baha’u’llah. But to me their proof was sorta on the basis of mathematical terms, but God never really had a set date of when he would come, so how could this be?
Also it’s been said that they are becoming really popular, ha that’s silly, they only have 7 Temples around the world yet Catholic Christians have hundreds and we have the Pope, like cmon man. Anyways what do you guys reckon? Write back yeah Thanks.
And if my friend is reading this, so be it, Forres I have no idea what you’re on kiddo! and yeah I maybe bagging out your faith but at least I don’t say c.r.a.p. like my religion is the correct one!!! :tsktsk:

 

[NoWings]

many pagan societies treated women as property, but Christ taught that as women are to obey and love their husbands men are to love their wives as they love themselves and that is because the two become one.

Men are told to not only love their wives, but love them as Christ loved the Church, and gave himself up for it.

That, as far as I can interpret, means love your wife enough to die for her.

 

[jen_fla]

Men are told to not only love their wives, but love them as Christ loved the Church, and gave himself up for it.

That, as far as I can interpret, means love your wife enough to die for her.

no wings, you are very knowledgeable… i dare say more so than most Catholics i know!

from scripture Catholic:

Eph. 5:25,28 – just as wives must submit to their husbands, husbands must “love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her…husbands should love their wives as their own bodies.” Just as the Church is legally and morally obligated to submit to Christ, wives are obligated to submit to their husbands. This is why Paul makes the comparison between husbands and Christ, wives and the Church.

Just as wives must be submissive to their husbands as the head of the family, husbands must love their wives sacrificially, as Christ loves the Church.

Pope John Paul II from Familiaris Consortio:

“Authentic conjugal love presupposes and requires that a man have a profound respect for the equal dignity of his wife: You are not her master…but her husband; she was not given you to be your slave, but your wife…Reciprocate her attentiveness to you and be grateful to her for her love.”

well i hope we aren’t leading too far away from the OP, but i was trying to demonstrate a key fault to the baha’i faith in that they gloss over/deny/reinterpret mohammed’s cruelty to justify him as being a supposed messenger of God.

have a lovely day, no wings!

 

[DavidMark]

Hi Jen, Hope this finds you tranquil
You asked a good question about what is new, what has Baha’u’llah brought that Jesus didn’t. In retrospect again, the Jews said they had Abraham and Moses, what did they need the Nazarene for, when Jesus’ teaching were exactly what was needed and will continue to be.
A friend asked how the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh contrasted with the teachings of Jesus Christ. “The teachings are the same.” declared 'Abdu’l-Bahá; **"It is the same foundation and the same temple. Truth is one, and without division. The teachings of Jesus are in a concentrated form. Men do not agree to this day as to the meaning of many of His sayings. His teachings are as a flower in the bud. Today, the bud is unfolding into a flower! Bahá’u’lláh has expanded and fulfilled the teachings, and has applied them in detail to the whole world.” **(‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London, p. 92-93)

But there were something Jesus did not elaborate on because they “could not bear it yet”. I think one of those things is the world civilization we are on the brink of.
But the basic principles Abdu’l-Baha delineated when He came to the West are either new, or not completely realized in the world. This Panacea can be described as follows:

The Creation is Infinite in Range & Deathless in Duration
The Purposes of God for society as well as the individual
The Proclamation of the Day of God & the Kingdom of God to a greater degree
The Oneness of God
The Oneness of Religion
The Oneness of Humanity
Independent Investigation of Truth
Elimination of All Prejudices
Elimination of Gossip and Backbiting (still a daily problem)
Elimination of Abuse
Elimination of the Concept of Enemy
Non-Interference of Religion with Politics
Religion Must Be the Cause of Harmony
Religion is in Harmony with Science
Equality of Men and Women
Universal Education
Universal Peace
Universal Auxiliary Language
The Need for Devotional Prayer
The Need for Silent Meditation
The Need for Consultation
Spiritual Solutions to the Eco-Crises
(This one is of particular interest to me because salvation in this age, means protecting the very eco-system we all live in. See Gaia theory)
Kindness to Animals is still not realized by some cultures, and this includes over-hunting
Humanity is in Need of Collective Security
Humanity is in Need of the Holy Spirit
Humanity is in Need of Tests
The Center of the Covenant
Justice and Right, led to the estabishment of the House of the Lord on Mount Carmel
Reciprocity
Service and Action
Preparation for the Hereafter

 

[DavidMark]

What I wish people to understand is the end of the Seven Times of the Gentiles. This was a stipulation Jesus Himself made, concerning His return, and the return of the Jews.
And they asked Him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? And He said…they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (Luke 21:7 & 24)
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand). (Matthew 24:15)
Jesus refers to the following prophecy in Daniel:
…How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. (Daniel 8:13-14)
Non-Jewish countries had ruled over Eretz Israel for most of its history. The Babylonians were followed by the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Muslims and finally the British, who ousted the Ottoman Turks. The British had also been instrumental in coercing the Turks to pass an edict of Toleration, which permitted the Jews to practice their religion and settle in Palestine, which they did in increasing numbers, after 1844.
An Israeli historical booklet documents that in the year 1844 the population of Jews in Jerusalem itself surpassed other communities. This was on 1 Nísan, 21 March, 1844, exactly 2300 years later. On the same day, the Bábí-Bahá’í calendar began (which is really called the Badí (wondrous, new) calendar system. That makes Bahá’í the prima dona new age Religion! And to think it was represented, like the Dove to Jesus, and the Bush to Moses, by Lady Justice, the Maid of Heaven, in the most horrendous dungeon imaginable!

Now how is that explained away? The fact that the Jews are again in control of Israel means the Promised One is in the world. This is found in many places, but one of my favorites is
Ezekiel36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
The Jews had not yet been dispersed when Jesus came. But how is it that a Message from a Muslim matrix saw as inevitable that the Jews would return, and most Muslims ignore it today? If they accept the Torah and OT, they have to accept this prophecy.
But if they do not have ears, eyes or heart left to love the Shepherd, how will they recognize Him?

 

[jen_fla]

Hi Jen, Hope this finds you tranquil
You asked a good question about what is new, what has Baha’u’llah brought that Jesus didn’t. In retrospect again, the Jews said they had Abraham and Moses, what did they need the Nazarene for, when Jesus’ teaching were exactly what was needed and will continue to be.
A friend asked how the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh contrasted with the teachings of Jesus Christ. “The teachings are the same.” declared 'Abdu’l-Bahá; **"It is the same foundation and the same temple. Truth is one, and without division. The teachings of Jesus are in a concentrated form. Men do not agree to this day as to the meaning of many of His sayings. His teachings are as a flower in the bud. Today, the bud is unfolding into a flower! Bahá’u’lláh has expanded and fulfilled the teachings, and has applied them in detail to the whole world.” **(‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London, p. 92-93)

But there were something Jesus did not elaborate on because they “could not bear it yet”. I think one of those things is the world civilization we are on the brink of.
But the basic principles Abdu’l-Baha delineated when He came to the West are either new, or not completely realized in the world. This Panacea can be described as follows:

The Creation is Infinite in Range & Deathless in Duration
The Purposes of God for society as well as the individual
The Proclamation of the Day of God & the Kingdom of God to a greater degree
The Oneness of God
The Oneness of Religion
The Oneness of Humanity
Independent Investigation of Truth
Elimination of All Prejudices
Elimination of Gossip and Backbiting (still a daily problem)
Elimination of Abuse
Elimination of the Concept of Enemy
Non-Interference of Religion with Politics
Religion Must Be the Cause of Harmony
Religion is in Harmony with Science
Equality of Men and Women
Universal Education
Universal Peace
Universal Auxiliary Language
The Need for Devotional Prayer
The Need for Silent Meditation
The Need for Consultation
Spiritual Solutions to the Eco-Crises
(This one is of particular interest to me because salvation in this age, means protecting the very eco-system we all live in. See Gaia theory)
Kindness to Animals is still not realized by some cultures, and this includes over-hunting
Humanity is in Need of Collective Security
Humanity is in Need of the Holy Spirit
Humanity is in Need of Tests
The Center of the Covenant
Justice and Right, led to the estabishment of the House of the Lord on Mount Carmel
Reciprocity
Service and Action
Preparation for the Hereafter

hello david, i hope all is well with you.

that being said, please forgive me, but how the heck can you honestly believe that most of the above things are NEW??? i mean, gasp… gasp… DIDDLEY… DIDDLEY i am having a ned flanders break down here… are you serious?

take for instance oneness of God… what do you think the Jews and Catholics have been teaching?

and preparation for the hereafter? the need for devotional prayer?

really?

you think these are new concepts? and gossiping? what do you think the 8th commandment means?

and if not realized in some parts of the world, perhaps you might want to study what the Catholic Church has always taught and help spread it. why reinvent the wheel? this idea that these ideas are new and all this baha’i use of the word universal is… well… DIDDLEY… i mean you do know catholic means universal right?

ok, i am sitting back down. wow-weeee.

i get emotional and i do not even know where to begin to help you sort through this poor information you have been given. maybe someone else can go point by point on this list to help mateo’s friend. i am exhausted.

david, take one thing like environmental issues and see what the Church teaches on that. do a quick google on “vatican goes green” and see what you get. read the articles written by Pope Benedict and the late Pope John Paul II. there even was a saint (can’t remember her name) that spoke about the green light or energy that linked us to God’s creation and this was hundreds of years before the new age hippies starting getting into that kind of groovy talk.

even in a lifetime you could never uncover all the treasures the Catholic Church holds. i am no good at convincing anyone to do anything, but you seem like such kind and thoughtful person, so i’m asking you to please investigate further as i am sure you love Truth just as much as we all do.

again, i have come across no violent teachings in the baha’i faith and i think the intentions of the followers are beautiful, however (forgive me for being blunt ) but bahá’u’lláh ripped off so much of Catholicism yet eliminated our need for the blessed Eucharist!

if you do believe Christ’s words then please accept these:

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. 52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. 53 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. 56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. 58 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. 59 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. full chapter here

and no, you can not reinterpret this verse to suit your new religion. you must accept the meaning that has been given for 2000 years if you are to believe Christ’s teachings.

and the same thing goes for your personal take of scripture in the previous post. it’s a bit lengthy, but if you want to understand one of the biggest debates between Catholic/orthodox vs all the other thousands of christian denominations you might want to bookmark this.

sola scriptura

your friend,
jen

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

Dear Jen Fla,
so you recognise all these things as Catholic teachings, and you read your Tolkien, and you follow the Simpsonian path. Why, you are an anonymous Bahai !

 

[DavidMark]

“God never really had a set date of when he would come, so how could this be?
… we have the Pope, like cmon man. …”

The Lord I worship is God of the least and greatest mathmatics as well as the hearts. Jesus did tell His listeners in Mark13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
But the year is given in many ways. That is why the church known as SDA Seventh Day Adventists believed Christ would come in the 1843-1844 time period, which was 1260 to the Muslims --1000 lunar years after the disappearance of the 12th Imam. When the skies did not create a great display, they had to explain it away.

Luke 12:40 **Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. **
And from the moment when the Tree of the Bayan appeared until it disappeareth is the Resurrection of the Apostle of God, as is divinely foretold in the Qur’án; the beginning of which was when two hours and eleven minutes had passed on the eve of the fifth of Jamadiyu’l-Avval, 1260 A.H.,[22 May, 1844] …~The Báb, SWB, p. 107

This moment was the collective focal point for the expectations of all religions. That is why it is the religion for this Day. It isnot a new religion…it is Religion renewed.

Be compassionate, so that your actions will shine like unto the light streaming forth from the lamp. If the whole world should arise to deny this cause, we must not fight. Our only role is to spread the teachings. If it be accepted, all is well; if not, leave the people to God. Abdu’l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 41

**Grant, O my God, that I may not be reckoned among those whose ears are deaf, whose eyes are blind, whose tongues are speechless and whose hearts have failed to comprehend. **- The Báb, Bahá’í Prayers, p. 164

 

[DavidMark]

“take for instance oneness of God… what do you think the Jews and Catholics have been teaching?”

Dear Jen: We have to be reminded of the Oneness.

Verily, Christ is Our Word which We communicated unto Mary; and let no one say what the Christians term as ‘the third of three’,[Quran 5:77] **inasmuch as it would amount to slandering the Remembrance Who, as decreed in the Mother Book, is invested with supreme authority. **(The Bab, SWB, p. 60)

A new or chosen language language to be universal, the abolition of slavery because of the oneness of mankind (Still working on that one)
Harmony of science and religion (too bad Copernicus and Galileo had to shut up)
Establishment of a federation of nations (the nations are still quite reluctant to try that, but it will come inevitably) …shall i go on?

 

[jen_fla]

Dear Jen Fla,
so you recognise all these things as Catholic teachings, and you read your Tolkien, and you follow the Simpsonian path. Why, you are an anonymous Bahai !

ha!i love ned’s meltdowns, but i do not follow his denomination.

tolkien, a fellow Catholic is surely a fine read!

but you misunderstood me. no i do not think ALL those points jive with Catholicism ie. elimination of ALL prejudices. some are positive and some help keep you alive, but maybe if you gave your definition of that word we could find common ground.

at any rate, you are correct in that we do share SO very much in common, but i find yours lacking because it ignores selective parts of holy scripture and you lead people away from partaking in the blessed sacrament. also you are missing out on the richness and complexities of scripture because your interpretations (all that i have seen so far) are incorrect. if you were Catholic you could have what you have plus SO much more.

peace!

 

[jen_fla]

“take for instance oneness of God… what do you think the Jews and Catholics have been teaching?”

Dear Jen: We have to be reminded of the Oneness.

Verily, Christ is Our Word which We communicated unto Mary; and let no one say what the Christians term as ‘the third of three’,[Quran 5:77] **inasmuch as it would amount to slandering the Remembrance Who, as decreed in the Mother Book, is invested with supreme authority. **(The Bab, SWB, p. 60)

A new or chosen language language to be universal, the abolition of slavery because of the oneness of mankind (Still working on that one)
Harmony of science and religion (too bad Copernicus and Galileo had to shut up)
Establishment of a federation of nations (the nations are still quite reluctant to try that, but it will come inevitably) …shall i go on?

you have ignored all my questions about other so called prophets and what criteria is there for one to be manifestation of God.

as to science and religion, the Church asked galileo not to promote his theory (which is rejected by scientists today) but rather to present a pro and con argument. galileo then went on to insult the Pope which lead to his mistreatment which the Church has apologized for. there was never any statements of infallibility or torture involved as many Catholic bigots like to imagine. in fact, modern science as we know it today was fostered by the Catholic Church.

as to federation of nations? … wasn’t this in your above list? :
Non-Interference of Religion with Politics*

so again, please tell me what the criteria for being a manifestation of God is?

thank you.

 

[DavidMark]

My Goal in Blogging for Bahá’u’állh
Walk, therefore, with a sure step and engage with the utmost assurance and confidence in the promulgation of the divine fragrances, the glorification of the Word of God and firmness in the Covenant. Rest ye assured that if a soul ariseth in the utmost perseverance and raiseth the Call of the Kingdom and resolutely promulgateth the Covenant, be he an insignificant ant he shall be enabled to drive away the formidable elephant from the arena, and if he be a feeble moth he shall cut to pieces the plumage of the rapacious vulture.(Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 209)

The arguments attempted by those who are adamantly opposed to the Bahá’í faith are like “heady wine” for me, because in general, the people I meet, day to day, are uninterested in hearing about something they think sounds ‘Middle Eastern’ and don’t want to investigate. I learn from everyone, but my roots are too deeply planted by this brook now.
If I’m willing to die for the Cause, like the Iranian believers sometimes do, then some anonymous dialogue is sure not going to budge me. The same is probably true for the other contenders in this ‘squirrel cage’. But perhaps, someone reading the past posts will learn something about Bahá’í that will precipitate a deeper search.

How many of you have seen funerals like ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s? When he was laid to rest in late November, 1921, over 10,000 people respectfully attended. Most were not Bahá’ís. There were the Christians, Muslims, Druze, Jews and British authorities who had been touched by his wisdom and kindness. Is this a fruit of the spirit?

The New York Congress, which I attended in 1992, to commemorate the centennial of the passing of Bahá’u’lláh, was attended by 27,000 Bahá’ís, and there were many satellite tele-conferences held at the same time around the world. This was recognized as the most diverse gathering of human races and tribes that had ever occurred; and it continues to happen at pilgrimage, and other international conferences. Bahá’u’lláh did this. Is that a fruit of the spirit?

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.
In the Báb’s Writings, which the masses will come to know, one of His great themes is that all things are “made new”. What does this mean? He discusses how the motivation of every single action can be for God, and God’s actions, --a new infusion of spirit into the body of mankind, is the cause of the tremendous inventions and new institutions, which have transformed modern life. Since Ahmad and Kazim prepared the way for the Báb, in the late 1700s, a nation has developed in the Americas, which seems impelled to giving freedom to the people in greater degree than ever before in history, including freedom of religion. Maybe that is why ‘Abdu’l-Bahá came to the USA for nine months, instead of Uruguay?
‘Abdu’l-Bahá confirms this:
The Lord God Omnipotent hath been enthroned in His Kingdom and hath made all things new. (Baha’i World Faith, p. 350)
But without morality shaping international laws, the new technologies can become a frankenstein out of control. Already the warning which Bahá’u’lláh gave has come true with horrible impact. And with it is probably the foresight of particle beams, a possible defense against such nuclear weapons:
Strange and astonishing things exist in the earth but they are hidden from the minds and the understanding of men. These things are capable of changing the whole atmosphere of the earth and their contamination would prove lethal. Great God! We have observed an amazing thing. Lightning or a force similar to it is controlled by an operator and moveth at his command. Immeasurably exalted is the Lord of Power Who hath laid bare that which He purposed through the potency of His weighty and invincible command. (Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 69)
Is this a fruit of the spirit, when the outcome of unchecked war is envisioned in the 1870s, 30 years before Einstein was even enabled to develope his theories?

A Test of Sincerity
Why is it Christians are eager to describe the life of a Man whose meekness has never been excelled, but for His return, they want celestial cinematics, because of literal interpretations, just like the Jews did before –and so they missed Him when He came like a thief in the night, and stole the hearts of seekers who saw His meekness as equal to what appeared before. Isn’t this a fruit of the spirit?

 

[DavidMark]

so again, please tell me what the criteria for being a manifestation of God is? thank you.

The main thing is their ability to educate mankind must be demonstrated. This alone is proof. Their best proof is Themselves and their Word. Minds vary and will not accept prophecies about them or prophecies by them, or miracles by them. What have they trained their followers to do? Either during their llifetime or afterwards, their Word will have its effect and a new civilization will flourish. This process happend over and over …so why are we arguing about the phenomenon? And it was promised that a Day would dawn that would not be followed by night. It is hard to see, since mankind’s greatest wars have been fought since Baha’u’llah’s prescription was not taken, and the diseases were exacerbated with greater weaponry! But the Swords will be beaten into plowshares. And there is no other pattern for planet earth to follow than Christ’s and that of Christ, returned in the Glory of the Father, the Lord of the Vineyard.

The appearance of these divine educators – Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad and, in our own age, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh – has signified the founding of a new religion, and yet none of these religions is really new; they are stages in the unfoldment of the same religious truth proceeding from the same God. They teach the same, unchanging spiritual principles, and they differ only in their social teachings, which vary according to the needs of the age in which they were revealed.
(Baha’i International Community, 1993 Feb 18, Eliminating Religious Intolerance)

At a time when the Arabian tribes and nomadic peoples were widely separated, living in the deserts under lawless conditions, strife and bloodshed continual among them, no tribe free from the menace of attack and destruction by another – at such a critical time Muhammad appeared. He gathered these wild tribes of the desert together, reconciled, united and caused them to agree so that enmity and warfare ceased. The Arabian nation immediately advanced until its dominion extended westward to Spain and Andalusia.
From these facts and premises we may conclude that the establishing of the divine religions is for peace, not for war and the shedding of blood. Inasmuch as all are founded upon one reality which is love and unity, the wars and dissensions which have characterized the history of religion have been due to imitations and superstitions which arise afterward. Religion is reality, and reality is one. The fundamentals of the religion of God are, therefore, one in reality. There is neither difference nor change in the fundamentals. (Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 117)

Then will such signs of purity and chastity be witnessed in your deeds and actions that men will behold the heavenly radiance of your lives and say, **“Verily, ye are the proofs of Bahá’u’lláh. Verily, Bahá’u’lláh is the True One, for He has trained such souls as these, each one of which is a proof in himself.” **They will say to others, “Come and witness the conduct of these souls; come and listen to their words, behold the illumination of their hearts, see the evidences of the love of God in them, consider their praiseworthy morals, and discover the foundations of the oneness of humanity firmly implanted within them. What greater proof can there be than these people that the message of Bahá’u’lláh is truth and reality?” (Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 461)
I have seen this, so I believe. Have you ever attended a Baha’i book study?
How else do people become informed of the facts unless they open the Book?

 

[yankee_doodle]

why not just be something somewhat reasonable like a deist?

 

[DavidMark]

Obviously there is such a thing as truth and untruth. Each of us have to decide. I do not want to ignore what I perceive to be the Truth-Speaker, Who represents God, the Origin and Destination of all things. This is the same Spirit who spoke from the Burning Bush.

Say: He it is Who is the Manifestation of Him Who is the Unknowable, the Invisible of the Invisibles, could ye but perceive it. He it is Who hath laid bare before you the hidden and treasured Gem, were ye to seek it. He it is Who is the one Beloved of all things, whether of the past or of the future. Would that ye might set your hearts and hopes upon Him!(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 30)

 

[planten]

**
DavidMark, your preachings of the Baha’is faith is continued. Even though you have disowned me for some reason, I have not lost my hope in you. I shall continue to ask you such questions which may be necessary to understand the Baha’is.

I had aske dyou “Why do you say that Bahaullah is God and he is not God?” Leave the mirror alone. Did any of the previous prophets of God teach such thing that they were God. Your system is quite a mystery.

On the One hand you say that Bahaullah is the manifestation of God. Then you also say that he is God. Does it mean that Bahaullah is really The God. He manifested Himself in the shape of Bahaullah?

Also I would need to know from you in exact words if:

1. Bab claimed to be the mahdi or claime dto be John the Baptist?
2. If Bahaullah claimed to be the Messiah, in exact words? Did he say thathe was the promised Messiah who was supposed to come, who was awaited by all nations?

David, if you bring the right reply in simple words, things could become easy. I do not need any long lecture. But if you do give a long lecture then highlight the important words please. I cannot indulge in round about ways and dubius statements. Thanks.**

 

[planten]

From DavidMark:
But the basic principles Abdu’l-Baha delineated when He came to the West are either new, or not completely realized in the world. This Panacea can be described as follows

:

The Creation is Infinite in Range & Deathless in Duration
The Purposes of God for society as well as the individual
The Proclamation of the Day of God & the Kingdom of God to a greater degree

** I hope it is nothing new. Such things could be found in the previous scriptures.**

The Oneness of God
The Oneness of Religion
The Oneness of Humanity

This is nothing new. Oneness of God is well establishe din Jewish faith and the church teaches it and also Islam is strictly teaching it.

Independent Investigation of Truth
Elimination of All Prejudices
Elimination of Gossip and Backbiting (still a daily problem)
Elimination of Abuse
Elimination of the Concept of Enemy

** Again nothing new. The previous religions were also preaching the same things. You cannot eliminate the concept of Enemy without eliminating the Enemy. The previous prophets had their enemies. Moses had his enemies. Jesus had his enemies. Muhammad had his enemies. I am sure Bahaullah and Bab had their enemies. Bab even tried to attack the government and revolted. In return he was killed.

It is necessary to reduce the concept of Enmity. Jesus did it with Love. So what Bahaullah brought new thing?**

Non-Interference of Religion with Politics
Religion Must Be the Cause of Harmony
Religion is in Harmony with Science
Equality of Men and Women

**Nothing new. Islam taught no Compulsion in the matters of any religion. Islam taught no politics. Islam taught Peace. So Did Jesus. The previous religions also taught harmony with science. islam taught every one to explore the creation of heavens and earth. It was taught to use their senses and explore and acquire knowledge.

What have you brought new thing? Please tell that such thing was not available and Bahaullah made it known.**

Universal Education
Universal Peace
Universal Auxiliary Language
The Need for Devotional Prayer
The Need for Silent Meditation
The Need for Consultation

**I see nothing new. Everyhting was available. Only the lesson was forgottena nd not being practiced. Islam taught Consultation. I can quote clear verses from Quran to prove it all.

Muslims believe in silent prayers and devotional prayers. Islam preaches universal Peace. It promotes education**.

**I cannot go further. Islam had pronounced that Allah sent messengers to all nations and they taught the same peaceful way of living. Please let us know what good thing was not available in church teachings and in islam that bahaullah brought into the world.

We feel that bahaullah took a alittle bit from here and there (from Church and from Islam) and made up his religion. Please explain. Did bahaullah claim to be the secong coming of Jesus? Let us know in his exact words**.

 

[DavidMark]

why not just be something somewhat reasonable like a deist?

I find this question one of the most exemplary. It assumes from the outset that we are the determiners of our true religion. Like the person who sees it as reasonable to be an atheist, many many people want God on their terms, so they can put Him in a box and use Him when they need to. These post-modern pluralists take what they want from the smorgasboard, but do not give their adoration to any one Messenger. That is not Bahá’í.

To men Bahá’í allowed my rational faculty to grow a good deal more than before, but still confirmation is not by the mind, since no one has near the same powers of mind. So God does not first judge what degrees you compiled and honors achieved… nor your race, gender and wealth etc. He looks at the hearts, which all began the same. How have they diverged? Have they become benevolent or concupiscent, irascible or inspired? To be sure, in the Hereafter, they will be grouped with others like them.

A deist… what is that? Is it worship of the one true God, beside Whom there is no other?
Or is it the result of mental fabrication, like artisans used to shape idols. For me, the one true God has sent Divine Messengers. Most religionists agree with this, but disagree how many, when, where etc. Since there has always been a creation, God has always set Messengers and will continue to do so forever. This thread is about those who believe Bahá’u’lláh is the Messenger for the age we are living in now.

Bahá’í is not an eclectic, syncretic smorgasboard. We see it as a tremendous Revelation, accompanied by fore-runners and successors to canalize the forces that rushed like a torrent through the heart of an untaught Nobleman. His innate knowledge of all things was placed before His face by the Eternal as needed . There were those whose faith and love led them to quick martyrdoms, without having read any of the Writings, and others who learned the Writings in Arabic and felt confined by the protection prescribed. Everyone gets a share.