"The Baha'i Faith"

[DavidMark]

Dear rowdy sinner,
Things are slowing down in here.
I appreciate your returning even if you refuse to capitalize Baha’i.
I don’t do that to Catholic. In fact I love Christ; that is not the issue.
But you don’t see the merit of Bahá’u’lláh…yet.

Your aural experience is wonderful! And also subjective, that is for you and whoever else saw it. I have seen similar things in the dome of the Temple in Wilmette.
He is the Lord of Light in both worlds.

Eucharist? We do observe the Lord’s Supper:
The Supper of the Lord which His Highness the Spirit ate with the apostles was a heavenly supper and not one of material bread and water, for material objects have no connection with spiritual objects. As at that time material food was also present, therefore the leaders of the religion of Christ thought that it was material food which was changed into spiritual food. The proof that it was not material food is this: The apostles upon many occasions partook of material food with His Highness Christ, yet the supper of that night became designated as the “Lord’s Supper.” From this designation it is plain and evident that they ate heavenly food at that supper. That heavenly food consisted of the love of God, the knowledge of God, the mysteries of God and the bestowal of God.
**(Feast (supper) [every nineteen days] is very acceptable and will finally produce good results. The beloved and the maid-servants of the Merciful must inaugurate the feast in such wise as to resurrect the feast of the ancients – namely, the “Lord’s supper.”**Tablets of Abdu’l-Baha v1, p. 149)

sincerely, rowdier sinner

 

[DavidMark]

Eucharist continued:

Reflect how clear it is that what Christ meant by the heavenly bread was His spirit, His bounties, His perfections and His teachings; for it is said in (John) the 63rd verse:**
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing.”**Therefore, it is evident that the spirit of Christ is a heavenly grace which descends from heaven; whosoever receives light from that spirit in abundance – that is to say, the heavenly teachings – finds everlasting life. That is why it is said in the 35th verse: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to Me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on Me shall never thirst.”
Notice that “coming to Him” He expresses as eating, and “belief in Him” as drinking.
Then it is evident and established that the celestial food is the divine bounties, the spiritual splendors, the heavenly teachings, the universal meaning of Christ. To eat is to draw near to Him, and to drink is to believe in Him. For Christ had an elemental body and a celestial form. The elemental body was crucified, but the heavenly form is living and eternal, and the cause of everlasting life; the first was the human nature, and the second is the divine nature. It is thought by some that the Eucharist is the reality of Christ, and that the Divinity and the Holy Spirit descend into and exist in it.
Now when once the Eucharist is taken, after a few moments it is simply disintegrated and entirely transformed. Therefore, how can such a thought be conceived? God forbid! certainly it is an absolute fantasy. (Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 98)

 

[jen_fla]

Dear rowdy sinner,
Things are slowing down in here.
I appreciate your returning even if you refuse to capitalize Baha’i.
I don’t do that to Catholic. In fact I love Christ; that is not the issue.
But you don’t see the merit of Bahá’u’lláh…yet.

Your aural experience is wonderful! And also subjective, that is for you and whoever else saw it. I have seen similar things in the dome of the Temple in Wilmette.
He is the Lord of Light in both worlds.

Eucharist? We do observe the Lord’s Supper:
The Supper of the Lord which His Highness the Spirit ate with the apostles was a heavenly supper and not one of material bread and water, for material objects have no connection with spiritual objects. As at that time material food was also present, therefore the leaders of the religion of Christ thought that it was material food which was changed into spiritual food. The proof that it was not material food is this: The apostles upon many occasions partook of material food with His Highness Christ, yet the supper of that night became designated as the “Lord’s Supper.” From this designation it is plain and evident that they ate heavenly food at that supper. That heavenly food consisted of the love of God, the knowledge of God, the mysteries of God and the bestowal of God.
**(Feast (supper) [every nineteen days] is very acceptable and will finally produce good results. The beloved and the maid-servants of the Merciful must inaugurate the feast in such wise as to resurrect the feast of the ancients – namely, the “Lord’s supper.”**Tablets of Abdu’l-Baha v1, p. 149)

sincerely, rowdier sinner

how can you observe the Lord’s supper when you do not believe Jesus IS Lord?

and look at what your tablets say:

“for material objects have no connection with spiritual objects”

so you think there is no connection between our souls and our bodies? are we just matter with no spiritual make up?

and back to the main point of this man who lived 1817 - 1892 and has come along recently to redefine what the Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught in regard to the divine presence of this Sacrament. he wasn’t the first in a long line of many to teach this heresy and i am sure he won’t be the last.

read this and know that your man is trying to tell the world that what we believe is something totally different. do you have any idea how insulting that is?

clearly these religions are not the same.

david, you have to see how portions of beauty in this religion are clouding up your judgement. if you came along and said “behold a new messenger with a new faith and we believe XYZ” that would be one thing. but it is utter gobbledy gook to say that one faith that teaches Jesus IS God is the same message as saying Jesus is just a messenger hence, NOT God!

so you can either look at facts or keep on living in delusion that Christ taught what bahá’u’lláh taught.

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

 

[arthra]

Baha’is are not trying to pull Catholics away from the practise of their religion…

Since this topic is on the Baha’i Faith we should state though that for Baha’is the true communion with God is through the words of His Manifestation… also we have no socerdotal or priestly class among us that has the special prerogatives or rituals to say forgive sins for us …only God can do that in our belief.

What Baha’is observe is called the Nineteen Day Feast:

The believers of God must assemble and associate with each other in the utmost love, joy and fragrance. They must conduct themselves (in these Feasts) with the greatest dignity and consideration, chant divine verses, peruse instructive articles, read the Tablets of Abdul-Baha, encourage and inspire each other with love for the whole human race, invoke God with perfect joy and fragrance, sing the verses, glorifications and praises of the Self-subsistent Lord and deliver eloquent speeches. The owner of the house must personally serve the beloved ones. He must seek after the comfort of all and with the utmost humility he must show forth kindness to every one. If the Feast is arranged in this manner and in the way mentioned, that supper is the “Lord’s supper,” for the result is the same result and the effect is the same effect.

(Abdu’l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu’l-Baha v2, p. 468)

 

[DavidMark]

Thank you arthra, but I wonder what the lasting result will be of this blog thread, if universality is always ignored. Elsewhere, people genuinely go where their hearts lead them, but here prayer warriors must bash whatever does not favor tradition and division.

“That which is spirit is spirit, and that which is flesh is flesh” …“the flesh profiteth nothing.”

Christianity and Baha’i are both mystery religions, and we try to get a grip on these profound issues the best we can. In the end Christ will clear away what is man-made, like He did before.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time.
John 14:9 He that hath seen me hath seen the Father

These two verses show that Jesus was both Lord and Servant; I would call that a mystery.
It is not accurate to say we do not believe the spirit of Christ was Lord…we just see it rising again in a New Name. And the conditions are the same: Baha’u’llah is both Lord and first Servant. His path is the one that will bring all the human communities under one tent; but each person is free to particpate or not. In the end it will become crystal clear.

 

[jen_fla]

…(contd) It is thought by some that the Eucharist is the reality of Christ, and that the Divinity and the Holy Spirit descend into and exist in it.
Now when once the Eucharist is taken, after a few moments it is simply disintegrated and entirely transformed. Therefore, how can such a thought be conceived? God forbid! certainly it is an absolute fantasy. (Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 98)

you are blind. you have your free will to choose whatever religion sounds good to you. i never bashed that.

all i am asking is for you to take a logical look at your contradictions. the Catholic Church was here roughly 2000 years before your new faith came along. your teacher IS calling our beliefs “absolute fantasy!”

so who’s really bashing who?

if you want to honestly believe that ONE MAN knows better than what the CC has always taught then just say so. but i call out your faith when it deceives people by saying that bahluahah teaches the SAME message as Christianity!

you also wrote:

But you don’t see the merit of Bahá’u’lláh…yet.

for the last time. i acknowledge the parts of your faith that are true, but the parts that go against Christianity i reject and i always will.

and if you keep insisting on being so illogical we might end up here

:slapfight:

peace to you my friend and yes i am praying for everyone on this forum so poke fun all you like.

 

[DavidMark]

The “absolute fantasy” is about embellishing the spritual Lord’s Supper, (which is not in dispute) with an unnecesary doctrine like trans-substantiation, no matter how many millions have been observing it for thousands of years.
Yes, I do say that the continuation of all things are subject to the Divine Manifestation’s consent. The Eucharist, Baptism, Confession before priests, the priesthood itself, are not subject to His consent. It is not for us to question why or wherefore. He can change water into wine, and earth into heaven. This is the return of Christ you were awaiting…weren’t you? Your dislike of this or that commandment will not change them.

Verily God is fully capable of causing all names to appear in one name, and all souls in one soul. Surely powerful and mighty is He. And this Return is realized at His behest in whatever form He willeth. Indeed He is the One Who doeth and ordaineth all things. Moreover, thou shouldst not perceive the fulfilment of the Return and the Resurrection save in the Word of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Knowing. For instance, were He to take a handful of earth and declare it to be the One Whom ye have been following in the past, it would undoubtedly be just and true, even as His real Person, and to none is given the right to question His authority. He doeth what He willeth and ordaineth whatsoever He pleaseth.(Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 183)

O ye loved ones of God! In this, the Bahá’í dispensation, God’s Cause is spirit unalloyed. His Cause belongeth not to the material world. It cometh neither for strife nor war, nor for acts of mischief or of shame; it is neither for quarrelling with other Faiths, nor for conflicts with the nations. Its only army is the love of God, its only joy the clear wine of His knowledge, its only battle the expounding of the Truth; its one crusade is against the insistent self, the evil promptings of the human heart. Its victory is to submit and yield, and to be selfless is its everlasting glory. In brief, it is spirit upon spirit:

Unless ye must,
Bruise not the serpent in the dust,
How much less wound a man.
And if ye can,
No ant should ye alarm,
Much less a brother harm.
(Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 256)

 

[DavidMark]

Oh, and I don’t know what a “bahluahah” is?
Is that like a bruhaha, or a ballyhoo?

In My Name, which standeth supreme above all names!
Praise and glory beseem the Lord of Names and the Creator of the heavens,
He, the waves of Whose ocean of Revelation surge
before the eyes of the peoples of the world.
The Day-Star of His Cause shineth through every veil
and His Word of affirmation standeth beyond the reach of negation.
(Tarazat (Ornaments) Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 29)
**
By God! He, the Glory of God** (Bahá’u’lláh), **hath spoken not from mere impulse.
He that hath given Him a voice is He that hath given a voice unto all things, that they may praise and glorify Him. **(Bahá’u’lláh, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 9)

O God, my God! …help Thy chosen ones to be faithful, and assist Thy loved ones to serve at Thine exalted Threshold, and cause them to gain the victory through the battalions of Thy might that overpowereth all things, and reinforce them with a great fighting host from out of the Concourse on high. (Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 5)

 

[jen_fla]

**The “absolute fantasy” is about embellishing the spritual Lord’s Supper, (which is not in dispute) with an unnecesary doctrine like trans-substantiation, no matter how many millions have been observing it for thousands of years.
Yes, I do say that the continuation of all things are subject to the Divine Manifestation’s consent. The Eucharist, Baptism, Confession before priests, the priesthood itself, are not subject to His consent. It is not for us to question why or wherefore. He can change water into wine, and earth into heaven. This is the return of Christ you were awaiting…weren’t you? **Your dislike of this or that commandment will not change them.

Verily God is fully capable of causing all names to appear in one name, and all souls in one soul. Surely powerful and mighty is He. And this Return is realized at His behest in whatever form He willeth. Indeed He is the One Who doeth and ordaineth all things. Moreover, thou shouldst not perceive the fulfilment of the Return and the Resurrection save in the Word of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Knowing. For instance, were He to take a handful of earth and declare it to be the One Whom ye have been following in the past, it would undoubtedly be just and true, even as His real Person, and to none is given the right to question His authority. He doeth what He willeth and ordaineth whatsoever He pleaseth.(Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 183)

O ye loved ones of God! In this, the Bahá’í dispensation, God’s Cause is spirit unalloyed. His Cause belongeth not to the material world. It cometh neither for strife nor war, nor for acts of mischief or of shame; it is neither for quarrelling with other Faiths, nor for conflicts with the nations. Its only army is the love of God, its only joy the clear wine of His knowledge, its only battle the expounding of the Truth; its one crusade is against the insistent self, the evil promptings of the human heart. Its victory is to submit and yield, and to be selfless is its everlasting glory. In brief, it is spirit upon spirit:

Unless ye must,
Bruise not the serpent in the dust,
How much less wound a man.
And if ye can,
No ant should ye alarm,
Much less a brother harm.
(Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 256)

your above words which i placed in red show you have no understanding of true Catholicism. and why yes, the issue of whether we embellished the Lord’s supper IS in dispute!!! once again you can’t reconcile facts so you gloss over them. you are avoiding facts, living in denial :hypno: or perhaps your Catholic bigotry is starting to rear it’s ugly head.

please explain to me in clear terms what you mean by this:

The Eucharist, Baptism, Confession before priests, the priesthood itself, are not subject to His consent.

you can believe and follow whatever new prophet you want. you have free will to follow any man you wish. personally i try my best to follow Jesus who IS God.

but you can NOT quote the Bible to me or tell Catholics what is wrong with our view of Christianity.

is it lost on you that you wouldn’t even have the New Testament had not the Catholic Church decided what books would be in it? …that it is a product of the Catholic Church?

deny and delude yourself all you want, but the Catholic Church existed BEFORE the new testament. realize how silly it is to take this Catholic book and redefine to us as a NON-Catholic what it means.

the Holy Bible is only part of our faith! you are not Catholic or Orthodox so you do not have the whole picture. stop telling us what it means to follow Christ when you choose to follow the words of somebody else.

how would you like it if you painted a work of art and then i came along and told you what you meant to convey?

Christ meant what he said when He said this IS my body.

open your “universal” mind and do a google search on Eucharistic miracles.

and if you don’t accept, well that’s on you, but admit you are showing “prejudice” to our beliefs.

peace.

 

[DavidMark]

Jen, you need to chill out, really. I am no threat to the Cause of God.

I don’t deny all the good things the Church has provided posterity. And I am not here to focus on the unfortunate parts of history, like the Inquisition and the Crusades. I don’t claim to know everything about your perspective; is that required to be here? Mateo was among those who discover Baha’i, and wanted to understand it. (He didn’t really want to know, or he would have stuck around. Maybe he is pursuing it elsewhere.) And Baha’i is what my faith is, so this is where I will be, and I intend to post as best I can, even if I am still learning about Baha’i too, after 39 years!
Now all these things I mentioned are like the practices of the Jews, all of which were subject to Christ’s Word. They were either kept in the ‘barn’, re-interpreted, vindicated or tossed in the ‘fire’. Take confession of sins: This is what Baha’u’llah says about that:

When the sinner findeth himself wholly detached and freed from all save God, he should beg forgiveness and pardon from Him. Confession of sins and transgressions before human beings is not permissible, as it hath never been nor will ever be conducive to divine forgiveness. Moreover such confession before people results in one’s humiliation and abasement, and God – exalted be His glory – wisheth not the humiliation of His servants. Verily He is the Compassionate, the Merciful. The sinner should, between himself and God, implore mercy from the Ocean of mercy, beg forgiveness from the Heaven of generosity and say:

O God, my God! I implore Thee by the blood of Thy true lovers who were so enraptured by Thy sweet utterance that they hastened unto the Pinnacle of Glory, the site of the most glorious martyrdom, and I beseech Thee by the mysteries which lie enshrined in Thy knowledge and by the pearls that are treasured in the ocean of Thy bounty to grant forgiveness unto me and unto my father and my mother. Of those who show forth mercy, Thou art in truth the Most Merciful. No God is there but Thee, the Ever-Forgiving, the All-Bountiful.
O Lord! Thou seest this essence of sinfulness turning unto the ocean of Thy favour and this feeble one seeking the kingdom of Thy divine power and this poor creature inclining himself towards the day-star of Thy wealth. By Thy mercy and Thy grace, disappoint him not, O Lord, nor debar him from the revelations of Thy bounty in Thy days, nor cast him away from Thy door which Thou hast opened wide to all that dwell in Thy heaven and on Thine earth.
Alas! Alas! My sins have prevented me from approaching the Court of Thy holiness and my trespasses have caused me to stray far from the Tabernacle of Thy majesty. I have committed that which Thou didst forbid me to do and have put away what Thou didst order me to observe.
I pray Thee by Him Who is the sovereign Lord of Names to write down for me with the Pen of Thy bounty that which will enable me to draw nigh unto Thee and will purge me from my trespasses which have intervened between me and Thy forgiveness and Thy pardon.
Verily, Thou art the Potent, the Bountiful. No God is there but Thee, the Mighty, the Gracious. (TB 24)

 

[planten]

** We need few explanations from baha’is. Please see the following passages posted by DavidMark…**…

In My Name, which standeth supreme above all names

!

** In my name? whose name please? Is it Allah or Bahaullah? and why has he/she not told his name here? In My name??? Whose name?? What is His name??? God has a name in Islam. and Judaism. Why that name is not used. **

Praise and glory beseem the Lord of Names and the Creator of the heavens,
He, the waves of Whose ocean of Revelation surge
before the eyes of the peoples of the world.
The Day-Star of His Cause shineth through every veil
and His Word of affirmation standeth beyond the reach of negation.
(Tarazat (Ornaments) Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 29)

Pronouns are being used everywhere without mentioning any one. Is it about Bahaullah or allah. Suppose it was all about Allah (God/YHWH), then I would I like to know why Allah (God) is not mentioned in the above tablet?? What was the problem? Why a round about way of saying things??

By God! He, the Glory of God (Bahá’u’lláh), hath spoken not from mere impulse.
He that hath given Him a voice is He that hath given a voice unto all things, that they may praise and glorify Him. (Bahá’u’lláh, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 9)

Again same thing, By God, the Glory of God and in bracket (bahaullah)…??? Why is that? Why not the name Bahaullah is mentioned in the above passage (Epistle) directly?? Why He etc?? His real name was not Bahullah. Why his real name is not used and Bahaullah also not mentioned in various posts??

O God, my God! …help Thy chosen ones to be faithful, and assist Thy loved ones to serve at Thine exalted Threshold, and cause them to gain the victory through the battalions of Thy might that overpowereth all things, and reinforce them with a great fighting host from out of the Concourse on high. (Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 5)

This is not from Bahaullah, so I will not comment. Yet we would like to know who is his God?? Is it Bahaullah?

 

[DavidMark]

It is a bit strange that the quote from Baha’u’llah begins “In My Name…”
and you want to know whose name.

In Islam there is a tradition that among the many names of God, one was the greatest; however, the identity of this Greatest Name was hidden. Bahá’u’lláh has confirmed that the Greatest Name is “Bahá”. The various derivatives of the word “Bahá” are also regarded as the Greatest Name.
Shoghi Effendi’s secretary writing on his behalf explains that The Greatest Name is the Name of Bahá’u’lláh. “Ya Bahá’ul-Abhá” is an invocation meaning: “O Thou Glory of Glories!” “Alláh-u-Abhá” is a greeting which means: “God the All-Glorious”. Both refer to Bahá’u’lláh. By Greatest Name is meant that Bahá’u’lláh has appeared in God’s Greatest Name, in other words, that He is the supreme Manifestation of God. (Notes to The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 180)This is an authoritative text because it is both from the Guardian and the Universal House of Justice, in the published version of the Most Holy Book, the Book of Life, from the “Living Book”.

It hath been ordained that every believer in God, the Lord of Judgement, shall, each day, having washed his hands and then his face, seat himself and, turning unto God, repeat “Alláh-u-Abhá” ninety-five times. Such was the decree of the Maker of the Heavens when, with majesty and power, He established Himself upon the thrones of His Names. Perform ye, likewise, ablutions for the Obligatory Prayer; this is the command of God, the Incomparable, the Unrestrained.(Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, #18, p. 25)

This is an example of what the divine Physician does: proscribe and prescribe.

**Let your joy be the joy born of My Most Great Name, a Name that bringeth rapture to the heart, and filleth with ecstasy the minds of all who have drawn nigh unto God. **(Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 38)

 

[DavidMark]

Dear Jen, I did make a mistake when I wrote that the Eucharist etc. are NOT subject to His consent. They are.
You say I cannot quote the Bible and tell you what I think is wrong with Christianity, but that’s what this is all about. Is the Catholic church as good as it gets for the human future?
You do the same thing to me. But Baha’is are saying that renewal has come and the slate is cleaned and new laws and institutions are founded. Some may not follow them, but they exist anyway. Of course, there is nothing essentially wrong with Christ’s teachings. We are now saying that they are being expanded and applied more broadly for the world, as He promised when He said “I have other things to tell you…”
It is not silly for me to contrast or compare your traditions and mine. That’s why we’re here.
It is basic to Baha’i that the Promised One of all Faiths has appeared, and everything they think and say and do is conditioned or contingent upon His acceptance. Let’s keep trying to be civil, polite, gentle, Christ-like, in our dialogue.

You are experiencing what many others did, objecting to Him, even insulting what He says, but it doesn’t change anything. You also have the right to remain as you are and reject the new claim. But eventually, you and the entire Catholic world, and other Faiths, have to answer to God why you rejected the primary claim, which was stated clearly to the Pope (Pius IX) in the Tablet. Start with paragraph #102
bahai-library.com/writings/bahaullah/slh/haykal.html

I had to decide if the Pope was infallible, when he spoke ex cathedra, or if Baha’u’llah was. When I stand before the Throne, I will say I chose Baha’u’llah’s Authority.

“Make no search for water. But find thirst,
And water from the very ground will burst.”
(Rumi, a Persian mystic poet, quoted in Delight of Hearts, p. 77)

 

[planten]

It is a bit strange that the quote from Baha’u’llah begins “In My Name…”
and you want to know whose name.

In Islam there is a tradition that among the many names of God, one was the greatest; however, the identity of this Greatest Name was hidden. Bahá’u’lláh has confirmed that the Greatest Name is “Bahá”. The various derivatives of the word “Bahá” are also regarded as the Greatest Name.
Shoghi Effendi’s secretary writing on his behalf explains that The Greatest Name is the Name of Bahá’u’lláh. “Ya Bahá’ul-Abhá” is an invocation meaning: “O Thou Glory of Glories!” “Alláh-u-Abhá” is a greeting which means: “God the All-Glorious”. Both refer to Bahá’u’lláh. By Greatest Name is meant that Bahá’u’lláh has appeared in God’s Greatest Name, in other words, that He is the supreme Manifestation of God. (Notes to The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 180)This is an authoritative text because it is both from the Guardian and the Universal House of Justice, in the published version of the Most Holy Book, the Book of Life, from the “Living Book”.

It hath been ordained that every believer in God, the Lord of Judgement, shall, each day, having washed his hands and then his face, seat himself and, turning unto God, repeat “Alláh-u-Abhá” ninety-five times. Such was the decree of the Maker of the Heavens when, with majesty and power, He established Himself upon the thrones of His Names. Perform ye, likewise, ablutions for the Obligatory Prayer; this is the command of God, the Incomparable, the Unrestrained.(Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, #18, p. 25)

This is an example of what the divine Physician does: proscribe and prescribe.

**Let your joy be the joy born of My Most Great Name, a Name that bringeth rapture to the heart, and filleth with ecstasy the minds of all who have drawn nigh unto God. **(Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 38)

**DM, These things are explained not by Bahaullah himself but by his followers. Now the matter seems to rest on the two words baha and Abha.I hope these are Arabic words. So we will go looking for these words in the dictionary and bring about some good result, insha Allah.

This seems to be a news. I never new that muhammad taught that Allah is Abha. I hope Jesus or Moses also did never tell the people that Allah is Abha or God is Abha, or Bahaul Abha.

You may continue with your recitation of such sentences.Let us dig out this word Baha and Abha from the old dictionaries.**

 

[DavidMark]

This is one of my favorite subjects.
All of these divine names like All-Powerful (al-Qadír), or Wise Ruler (al-Hakím) apply to the Divine Manifestation, even though He may be a homeless poor soul.
They are like the photosphere of the sun which radiates the nature of the star to observers.
The divine Essence, is forever hidden and un-approachable.

Other languages also have these names. One word for “Glory” in Hebrew is “Kavod”.
If it is about divine Glory, it may be a prophecy about Bahá, like Isaiah 35:2
"…Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.
And of course that is where Baha’u’llah chanted the Tablet of Carmel and where the World Centre of His Faith is located in the Holy Land. He pointed out where the body of the Báb would be laid to rest, and the Báb is Elijah/John the Baptist returned. And the exodus ships unloaded the Jews there in Haifa harbor.
Kings18:19 Now therefore send, and gather to me all Israel unto mount Carmel…

Before the Islamic Revolution in Iran or earlier, the word “bahá” was used for verses like this in the Arabic translation of the Bible, but since then, the word “majíd” or something else, has often replaced them, so that there will be no inference to Bahá’u’lláh.

The divine Names in Arabic are very beautiful to chant, and you see them in Baha’i Writings:
Alláh-u-Ajmál (God is Most Beautiful)
Alláh-u-Akbár (God is Most Great)
Alláh-u-A’zam (God is Most Mighty)
Alláh-u-Aqdam (God is Most Ancient)
Alláh-u-Azhár (God is Most Manifest)
Alláh-u-Athár (God is Most Pure)
Alláh-u-Abhá (God is Most Glorious)
Too bad I have heard some assert that Allah is not the same as Yahweh/Eloh.

 

[DavidMark]

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.(Philippians 2:11)

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.(Mark 8:38)

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. (Matthew 16:27)

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:4)

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. (Revelation 21:23)

 

[DavidMark]

Dear Jen: Concerning your assertion that the bread is literally the body of Christ:

John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.6:59 **These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. **

If this was said in Capernaum, before the Lord’s Last Supper, what is the significance?
He was still with them!

In the same way, reflect that when Christ blessed the bread and gave it to His disciples, saying, **“This is My body,” **[Matt. 26:26] and gave grace to them, He was with them in person, in presence, and form. He was not transformed into bread and wine; if He had been turned into bread and wine, He could not have remained with the disciples in body, in person and in presence.
Then it is clear that the bread and wine were symbols which signified: I have given you My bounties and perfections, and when you have received this bounty, you have gained eternal life and have partaken of your share and your portion of the heavenly nourishment. (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, p. 97)

I have tried to present this important teaching in a clear way, not to bash the ancient practices, which were perfomed for the love of God, but to build on the spiritual significance of it, which is that when we accept God’s Revelations, *and *acquire the divine attributes, we are truly created in the image of God, the purpose of Creation! To imagine anything else is the fantasy. How many have taken the bread and wine and been unchanged by His transforming spirit? This is what I want Catholics to understand. Without a doubt, there will be the promised harvest, and the Tree of Life will provide its fruits to all who seek without cessation.

 

[jen_fla]

Jen, you need to chill out, really. I am no threat to the Cause of God.

I don’t deny all the good things the Church has provided posterity. And I am not here to focus on the unfortunate parts of history, like the Inquisition and the Crusades. I don’t claim to know everything about your perspective; is that required to be here? Mateo was among those who discover Baha’i, and wanted to understand it. (He didn’t really want to know, or he would have stuck around. Maybe he is pursuing it elsewhere.) And Baha’i is what my faith is, so this is where I will be, and I intend to post as best I can, even if I am still learning about Baha’i too, after 39 years!
Now all these things I mentioned are like the practices of the Jews, all of which were subject to Christ’s Word. They were either kept in the ‘barn’, re-interpreted, vindicated or tossed in the ‘fire’. Take confession of sins: This is what Baha’u’llah says about that:

When the sinner findeth himself wholly detached and freed from all save God, he should beg forgiveness and pardon from Him. Confession of sins and transgressions before human beings is not permissible, as it hath never been nor will ever be conducive to divine forgiveness. Moreover such confession before people results in one’s humiliation and abasement, and God – exalted be His glory – wisheth not the humiliation of His servants. Verily He is the Compassionate, the Merciful. The sinner should, between himself and God, implore mercy from the Ocean of mercy, beg forgiveness from the Heaven of generosity and say:

O God, my God! I implore Thee by the blood of Thy true lovers who were so enraptured by Thy sweet utterance that they hastened unto the Pinnacle of Glory, the site of the most glorious martyrdom, and I beseech Thee by the mysteries which lie enshrined in Thy knowledge and by the pearls that are treasured in the ocean of Thy bounty to grant forgiveness unto me and unto my father and my mother. Of those who show forth mercy, Thou art in truth the Most Merciful. No God is there but Thee, the Ever-Forgiving, the All-Bountiful.
O Lord! Thou seest this essence of sinfulness turning unto the ocean of Thy favour and this feeble one seeking the kingdom of Thy divine power and this poor creature inclining himself towards the day-star of Thy wealth. By Thy mercy and Thy grace, disappoint him not, O Lord, nor debar him from the revelations of Thy bounty in Thy days, nor cast him away from Thy door which Thou hast opened wide to all that dwell in Thy heaven and on Thine earth.
Alas! Alas! My sins have prevented me from approaching the Court of Thy holiness and my trespasses have caused me to stray far from the Tabernacle of Thy majesty. I have committed that which Thou didst forbid me to do and have put away what Thou didst order me to observe.
I pray Thee by Him Who is the sovereign Lord of Names to write down for me with the Pen of Thy bounty that which will enable me to draw nigh unto Thee and will purge me from my trespasses which have intervened between me and Thy forgiveness and Thy pardon.
Verily, Thou art the Potent, the Bountiful. No God is there but Thee, the Mighty, the Gracious. (TB 24)

i am going to ignore your passive aggressive quips for the most part about the inquisition and the crusades, but will say this: you really need to read about these issues in depth and if you do so i am sure some of your prejudices might go away. if you admit you do not know everything about these topics then you will admit you are displaying prejudice which you stated was one of the things that needed to be eliminated completely.

the part i placed in green shows you do not even understand the basic concepts of Christianity. read about the covenant and how the old was one fulfilled.

and to the part in red your man is ONCE AGAIN going against the words of Christ. look, i said it before and i’ll say it again so maybe you can see… you are being dishonest with yourself if you actually believe that your faith is teaching the same thing as Christianity. it is something new.

do your own thing. fine. i am not here to argue that.

but your faith says you believe Christ is NOT GOD, but a messenger of GOD. ok, well then tell me what the message is here?

John 20

21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Jesus is speaking to His disciples. are the disciples men? yes they are!

so now go back and reread what is in red. do you see a problem?

follow baha’u’llah if that is your choice, but admit his teachings go AGAINST what Christ said and taught.

and just so you know, Catholics do not believe people have the power to forgive sins as only God can do that, but Christ wanted this done through his apostles.

oh and btw, seeing how baha’u’llah was not a Catholic and never went to confession how could he know what it’s like. i can tell you that i have never been humiliated. sometimes embarrassed at first yes, but the Priests are always kind and on numerous occasions i have felt … i don’t know how to put in words, but sort of like heavy weights float up out of me and disintegrate. i always feel cathartic after. your baha’u’llah is trying to lead people away from spiritual medicine!

peace.

 

[jen_fla]

Dear Jen, I did make a mistake when I wrote that the Eucharist etc. are NOT subject to His consent. They are.
You say I cannot quote the Bible and tell you what I think is wrong with Christianity, but that’s what this is all about. Is the Catholic church as good as it gets for the human future?

yes. we’d all be lost without Her.

You do the same thing to me.

no i do not. i do not pick some of your bahaullah sayings and tell you what they mean. what i have been trying to get you to see is that your faith is not the same as mine. why is that so hard for you to understand?

You are experiencing what many others did, objecting to Him, even insulting what He says, but it doesn’t change anything. You also have the right to remain as you are and reject the new claim. But eventually, you and the entire Catholic world, and other Faiths, have to answer to God why you rejected the primary claim, which was stated clearly to the Pope (Pius IX) in the Tablet. Start with paragraph #102
bahai-library.com/writings/bahaullah/slh/haykal.html

don’t cry that i insult bahaullah because i do not think he is a messenger of God. you do not think Jesus IS God so could i not throw it right back to you that you are insulting Christ?

I had to decide if the Pope was infallible, when he spoke ex cathedra, or if Baha’u’llah was. When I stand before the Throne, I will say I chose Baha’u’llah’s Authority.

God gave you free will to accept or reject the Gospels. :tiphat:

 

[jen_fla]

Dear Jen: Concerning your assertion that the bread is literally the body of Christ:

John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.6:59 **These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. **

If this was said in Capernaum, before the Lord’s Last Supper, what is the significance?
He was still with them!

In the same way, reflect that when Christ blessed the bread and gave it to His disciples, saying, **“This is My body,” **[Matt. 26:26] and gave grace to them, He was with them in person, in presence, and form. He was not transformed into bread and wine; if He had been turned into bread and wine, He could not have remained with the disciples in body, in person and in presence.
Then it is clear that the bread and wine were symbols which signified: I have given you My bounties and perfections, and when you have received this bounty, you have gained eternal life and have partaken of your share and your portion of the heavenly nourishment. (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, p. 97)

I have tried to present this important teaching in a clear way, not to bash the ancient practices, which were perfomed for the love of God, but to build on the spiritual significance of it, which is that when we accept God’s Revelations, *and *acquire the divine attributes, we are truly created in the image of God, the purpose of Creation! To imagine anything else is the fantasy. How many have taken the bread and wine and been unchanged by His transforming spirit? This is what I want Catholics to understand. Without a doubt, there will be the promised harvest, and the Tree of Life will provide its fruits to all who seek without cessation.

let me guess, you were a protestant before you came to the baha’i faith.

davidmark, it is as simple as this:

the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches have ALWAYS taught the bread IS His body and the wine IS his blood. you don’t have to accept these teachings yourself, but you must accept this is what we have ALWAYS believed.

OK?

so don’t believe it. again, that is your choice.

from our Catechism:

*1324 The Eucharist is “the source and summit of the Christian life.”

1410 It is Christ himself, the eternal high priest of the New Covenant who, acting through the ministry of the priests, offers the Eucharistic sacrifice. and** it is the same Christ, really present under the species of bread and wine,** who is the offering of the Eucharistic sacrifice.

1412 The essential signs of the Eucharistic sacrament are wheat bread and grape wine, on which the blessing of the Holy Spirit is invoked and the priest pronounces the words of consecration spoken by Jesus during the Last Supper: “This is my body which will be given up for you… This is the cup of my blood…”*

this was practiced before the new testament was even written! now that you know that is what we have always believed in can you admit your faith teaches something different from ours?