"The Baha'i Faith"

[vivs3]

Excuse me Anthra, but I am a girl and my name is viv, short for vivian.
Anyway I am not a Bahai, I am Catholic, with a strong belief. I’ve jst been talking to my Bahai friend and he told me about all these facts and stuff about his faith and that got me interested but we argued between our faiths, like there was a massive clash.
However, I did gain a lot of knowledge about his faith and he told me when he turns 15, he has this thing within his faith where he investigates ‘the truth’ or somethin like that and so I’ve been helpin him out and givin him my views since I’m catholic christian, but it jst really turned out messy, ha.
However, someone else said that
“If it is from God for mankind, and you reject it knowingly, what do you think?”
Well buddy, no one knows if Bahaullah was the second coming of christ, people just believe it, so how can I knowingly reject him? But I do know one thing, it’s that I don’t believe he is the second comin of christ and jst for your information, religion is all about believing, it’s never knowing.
so yeh…

 

[Badi1919]

I was a Baha’i. But from last 2 years I am learning “Bayani Religion” which is the true religion brought by BAB and propagated by His true successor Hazrat-i-subh-i-Azal.
I have done Ruhi books till Book No. 6 and attended many teaching trips. NO Pilgrimage. Thanks GOD. I am willing to die for the cause of Hazrat-e-Subh-i-Azal. Badi is not my actual name and yes it is to attract the attention of you Haifan Baha’is.

God Willing, The New World Order of Baha’u’llah will be swept away. You see, this will happen.

We love everybody but you Baha’is for all that you have done to our Master Hazrat-i-Subh-i-Azal and His brave and faithful companions.

I request my Christian Brothers to please learn the History of Baha’i Cult. The Face of this Cult is attractive but the inner is very ugly and full of Blood and murders.

Truth seeking Baha’is please refer =
bayanic.com/notes/Abbas/AbbasWill-06.html

Christian Brothers Please visit = bayanic.com

Thank you,
God bless you all.

 

[DavidMark]

Badí: Do you really think you are those like you can accomplish that which Azal was not able to? Compared to the courage shown by Jinab-i-Bahá, Yahya was a non-entity.

The early believers often received from Bahá’u’lláh Tablets revealed in their honour. These were their precious possessions. But the most treasured of all was a Tablet in His own handwriting. This special privilege, however, was not often bestowed, especially after the days in Adrianople when Bahá’u’lláh was poisoned by His half-brother Mirza Yahya. So grave was His condition from consuming this poison that the doctor deemed His case hopeless, and it was only through the power of the Almighty that His life was spared. As a result He was left with a shaking hand and would seldom take up the pen to write. (Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Baha’u’llah v 1, p. 37)

 

[DavidMark]

Well buddy, no one knows if Bahaullah was the second coming of christ, people just believe it, so how can I knowingly reject him? But I do know one thing, it’s that I don’t believe he is the second comin of christ and jst for your information, religion is all about believing, it’s never knowing.
so yeh…

Dear VIV: You’re twisting what other people hold thru faith. That’s like saying no one knows if Jesus was Christ. That’s like Badi, who is so blinded by lies that he thinks Yahya (Azal) had something more importnat to give to mankind than the World Order of Baha’u’llah. What? Nothing! Look at the fruits of these teachings.Everyone of Baha’u’llah’s teachings is for the good of mankind. Yahya left nothing.

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

… while we’re at it, why is a New Zealand resident of Holland and a non-Iranian posting to Iranian.Com, especially one who it is claimed has been disenfranchised by the Baha’i establishment?

This is off-topic, but easily answered. Anyone who looks at my blog on Iranian.com can see that I am part of the community there mainly because of the Iranian literature connection. I am a Master’s student in Persian, on the editorial board of the Iranian Studies Series, and edit or translate a lot of books relating to Iranian literature or Iranian studies in general. A couple of these are listed on the ‘publications’ tab of my blog
Some of my articles and translations that are available electronically are listed on my blog here.

Iranian.com is open to non-Persians: the site has a magazine format and has created a broad cultural community. I do not need to apologise to anyone for being part of it.

As for my being removed from the Bahai membership rolls, the story is on my Bahai Studies blog in a blog entry called “What is theology, and what’s it good for ?”

There are links to the only documents there are on the ‘about Sen’ tab. It looks as if someone sent the UHJ a selective quotation from the Foreword to my book Church and State, at a time when the book itself was not yet available in Israel, and the UHJ thought I was aspiring to some sort of leadership in the Bahai community and removed me by way of precaution. If there’s more to the story, the UHJ is not sharing it so far. I’ve asked several times to be re-enrolled, but didn’t get any further idea from the answers of what the UHJ’s purpose may be, but…

… we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
(Romans 8:28)

Since I was not actually looking for any sort of leadership, not being on the membership rolls doesn’t affect me very much. So there’s not much downside to a ‘better safe than sorry approach.’ If I was angling for leadership, the UHJ’s action would effectively put a stop to it. But that’s not my thing. I had served on local assemblies and as an ‘assistant’ at various times, but in small communities where I felt there was not much choice. Meetings and agendas are not my thing, and I am happy to let other people do that. Now I can focus on with my own kinds of service:

• teaching (in the sense of preaching, not teaching classes),
• pastoral stuff like visiting the sick,
• defence of the faith (against honest critiques and anti-Bahaism, for Islam against islamophobia, and for religion as a whole against critiques of religion)
• theology, not as an academic discipline (though it should meet academic standards), but as “faith seeking understanding” and as a way of helping believers with the life of faith by clearing up misunderstandings that get in their way.
  A lot of this happens through my blog:
  senmcglinn.wordpress.com/

Perhaps the UHJ has placed me in just the position I am best suited to, but I’ve asked to be re-enrolled and I guess I will ask again in a few year’s time. Disenrollment is not like being declared a heretic or having the anathema pronounced: I am still free to attend conferences and summer schools organised by the Bahais, and I have done so and on a couple of occasions have been a speaker, I can go to local unity feasts, devotional meeting and holy day celebrations. I can’t be enrolled in the Bahai community. It’s a bit like being a Catholic but not being accepted for the priesthood, or living in a medieval walled monastry for a decade or two, and then being summoned by the Abbot and told “Brother Sen, the chapel outside the walls needs you. Pack your bags.” The UHJ’s authority extends over all Bahais, not just those on the membership rolls, because it flows from the direct words of Baha’u’llah. So I’m extramurally active, and try with reasonable success to do it with joy, and not to cause the UHJ any grief about it:

“Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.”
(Hebrews 13:17-18)

 

[arthra]

Vivian wrote:

Excuse me Anthra, but I am a girl and my name is viv, short for vivian.

And my name is Art and I appreciate your post! and I’ll respond to you in italics…

Anyway I am not a Bahai, I am Catholic, with a strong belief.

Well and good.

I’ve jst been talking to my Bahai friend and he told me about all these facts and stuff about his faith and that got me interested but we argued between our faiths, like there was a massive clash.

Not too unusual but hope you can still be friends…

However, I did gain a lot of knowledge about his faith and he told me when he turns 15, he has this thing within his faith where he investigates ‘the truth’ or somethin like that and so I’ve been helpin him out and givin him my views since I’m catholic christian, but it jst really turned out messy, ha.

Baha’is at fifteen years of age enter the age of spiritual maturity and are expected to investigate the truth independently…

However, someone else said that
“If it is from God for mankind, and you reject it knowingly, what do you think?”
Well buddy, no one knows if Bahaullah was the second coming of christ, people just believe it, so how can I knowingly reject him? But I do know one thing, it’s that I don’t believe he is the second comin of christ and jst for your information, religion is all about believing, it’s never knowing.
so yeh…

All we can do is investigate the truth for ourselves and discover what we can… Baha’is don’t believe in a literal “hell”. We do believe that being removed from God that is alienating ourselves from God is a spiritual state or condition and that is to us more like “hell”. Baha’is also recite a prayer around noon time whioch goes like this:

• “I bear witness oh my God that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee…”*

and believe we can know God through His Manifestations.

- Art

 

[vivs3]

Thanks Art for your reply.
It was interesting, but DavidMark, that’s what I’m getting at. No one knows if Jesus was Christ. yeah it maybe in books and all, but you cannot be 100% sure that he was Christ, that’s why no one can be sure that Bahaullah was the second coming of Christ even tho there are books also…

No one knows if God is real, no one knows if there is a heaven or hell, no one on the planet knows the answers to these, no one knows what the meaning of life is!!
I believe that Jesus was Christ, because that’s how I was brought up. There’s no way you can truly find out the number 1 dead straight truth, because there isn’t one. yeah bahais can investigate other religions, but they’re not gonna find the number one truth… I’m pretty sure they’ll jst stay with being a Bahai and not covert, or whatever.

What I’m saying is, some people believe Jesus was Christ, and others believe bahaullah was the second coming of christ, but no one knows this for sure, they just believe in it.
Do you understand what I’m getting at? Does anyone know what I’m getting at?

 

[arthra]

Vivian…

As Baha’is, we believe Jesus was the Christ and that both the Bab and Baha’u’llah fulfilled His promised Return…

Every soul who believed in Jesus Christ became revivified and resuscitated through this spirit, attained to the zenith of eternal glory, realized the life everlasting, experienced the second birth and rose to the acme of good fortune.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, p. 258

He who seeketh Christ from the point of view of His body hath, in truth, debased Him and hath gone astray from Him; but he who seeketh Christ from the point of view of His Spirit will grow from day to day in joy, attraction, zeal, proximity, perception and vision.

Thou hast then to seek the Spirit of Christ in this marvelous day. The heaven whither Christ ascended is not an infinite space. His heaven is much rather the kingdom of His Lord, the Munificent. As He said, “The Son of Man is in heaven.” It is known then that His heaven is beyond the boundaries that surround existence and that He is elevated for the people who adore.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, p. 388

Further,

They expect that He will descend from this heaven seated upon a cloud. They believe that there is in the heavens a cloud upon which He will be seated and by which He will descend; while, in reality, the clouds are vapors which rise from the earth and which do not descend from the heavens. The cloud mentioned in the Holy Scriptures is the human body, because it is a veil for them, like a cloud, which prevents them from seeing the Sun of Truth which is shining in the horizon of Christ.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i World Faith, p. 389

A notable event in Canada, in addition to the remarkable increase in the number of her believers, has been the acceptance of the Faith by a minister of the United Church, Mr. Ronald Parsons. This courageous soul has written an eloquent and moving testimony of his faith addressed to the church from the ministry of which he has resigned. In that letter he says:

*“To many of my brethren it may seem that I am turning away from Jesus by such an action, whereas for me it comes as the only way in which I can maintain my obedience to Him. Because I believe Bahá’u’lláh to be what He claims to be, the Return of Christ, the Promised Spirit of Truth, not to become His follower would be a betrayal of Jesus’s teaching and a denial of God’s Will in this Age”. *

~ Custodians, Ministry of the Custodians, p. 305

Gracious God! Time and again this question hath arisen, and its answer hath emanated in a clear and irrefutable statement from the pen of 'Abdu’l-Bahá, that what is meant in the prophecies by the ‘Lord of Hosts’ and the ‘Promised Christ’ is the Blessed Perfection (Bahá’u’lláh) and His holiness the Exalted One (the Bab).

~ Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha’u’llah, p. 139

 

[vivs3]

so if I don’t accept all that Art, am I betraying God and Jesus Christ?

If I accept all of that, does that make me a Bahai or can I stay Catholic but choose what the bahais believe in that I think is correct?

 

[DavidMark]

I know lots of Catholic-Baha’is. That is Baha’is from Catholic background, who now recognize the return of the spirit of Christ in the “Glory of the Everlasting Father” (Baha’u’llah) That doesn’t mean things as usual.
Baha’u’llah has forbidden certain things and commanded others, as He has right to do.
People went on living their physical lives after having rejected the Manifestation of God, but it will all become startling and vitally ral sppiritually, when we leave this world behind. Blessed are those who have faith to stand up for it now.

Badi1919: You and I both want to give our lives for what we believe. I hope we get the chance, so we can leave this dismal place to its pitiful state and discover the reality of what we have done.

I wonder if you even know your hkistory:
Yahya was 13 years younger than Baha’u’llah and was taken care of by Him; Baha’u’llah even took the bastinado for him in Amul. Besides being a coward and a liar, Yahya took the wife of the Bab and gave her to the Siyyid of Isfahan when he was done with her. He did poison Baha’u’llah and blamed it on an bungled attempt by Baha’u’llah; he did incite the barber to kill Baha’u’llah and then denied he’d done it, citing the barber…wh ohad thrown him out in anger upon gathering what the plan was. He did neglect the Bab’s writings when he could have disseminated them. He was known to have no sound answers to deep questions, and even interpolated the writings with his own ideas. I am curious what yousee in him that makes him so great, when it is Baha’u’llah that has gathered the tribes of the earth together !!!

 

[arthra]

so if I don’t accept all that Art, am I betraying God and Jesus Christ?

If I accept all of that, does that make me a Bahai or can I stay Catholic but choose what the bahais believe in that I think is correct?

Vivian:

Baha’is believe that to reject a Messenger of God is to reject Them all… this is found among other places in the Tablet of Ahmad that is recited often by Baha’is:
.
“Be thou assured in thyself that verily, he who turns away from this Beauty hath also turned away from the Messengers of the past and showeth pride towards God from all eternity to all eternity.”

Read the entire prayer at

bahaiprayers.org/ahmad.htm

I think though you’ll find that for the most part we Baha’is don’t stress a certain “credo” of dogma as much as many groups do…

Baha’is have had good relationships with Catholics and with Christians generally and you’ll find no pamphlets attacking Catholicism from us…

Some significant Christians in Baha’i history include Udi Khammar and Abud who owned the home when Baha’u’llah stayed with His family and revealed many important works… also Sam Khan the commander of the Armenian Christian soldiers that were charged with executing the Bab and was spared of this onerous task.

What you think is “correct” is your religion of course but what I would suggest is that you can still seek and investigate for yourself.

 

[DavidMark]

so if I don’t accept all that Art, am I betraying God and Jesus Christ?

If I accept all of that, does that make me a Bahai or can I stay Catholic but choose what the bahais believe in that I think is correct?

You’re saying no one knows anything and I don’t buy that. Since God knows and we are created in the imge of God, He has given to us that we may know too!
A daily prayer of Baha’is is:
I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee. I testify, at this moment, to my powerlessness and to Thy might, to my poverty and to Thy wealth. There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.

Faith means acting on what we believe, and God has been guiding our belief thru the centuries to better and better levels, “ways that lead to one way, which is this
Straight Path.”
You shouldn’t believe just because it was what your parents were. You should investigate independently, and commit to what is good for humanity and love the Lord your God with all your hearts and soul and mind and strength.
The Lord Baha’u’llah builds on everything good in the past and guides us into the future.

Remember the “70 weeks prophecy”. (70X7 =490) Ezra 7 says the second temple was created in 456 BC, and this is when the 490 years start and end with the crucifixion in 33 AD. When they asked Jesus about His return, he refers them to Daniel again, an the “2300 days prophecy” begins at the same time and ends in 1844. After that time the Jews returned and the time fo the gentiles is over. The Promised One has to be in the world. Who else is the Promised One, if not Baha’u’llah?

 

[vivs3]

Who else is the Promised One, if not Baha’u’llah?

Well I believe he hasn’t come yet. I still believe the second coming of christ will happen. I don’t believe he has come, but I’m not saying, Bahaullah never came.
I guess he did come but I don’t believe he was the promised one.
The promised one, the return of christ, is yet to come.

 

[vivs3]

Some significant Christians in Baha’i history include Udi Khammar and Abud who owned the home when Baha’u’llah stayed with His family and revealed many important works… also Sam Khan the commander of the Armenian Christian soldiers that were charged with executing the Bab and was spared of this onerous task.
QUOTE]

Hah I’m Armenian too, lol I just wanted to point that out

 

[vivs3]

Some significant Christians in Baha’i history include Udi Khammar and Abud who owned the home when Baha’u’llah stayed with His family and revealed many important works… also Sam Khan the commander of the Armenian Christian soldiers that were charged with executing the Bab and was spared of this onerous task.

Hah I’m Armenian too, lol I just wanted to point that out

 

[DavidMark]

Viv, I have made this little compilation about the love of God especially for you, and I think that you will realize that it is our purpose to seek out and desire the brilliant signs of the Best-Beloved, that’s the purpose of our lives. Best Wishes!
**
Wouldst thou that the mind should not entrap thee? Teach it the science of the love of God! **~Bahá’u’lláh, Four Valleys, p. 52

Whatever decreaseth fear increaseth courage. ~Bahá’u’lláh, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 32
**The source of courage and power is the promotion of the Word of God, and steadfastness in His Love. **~Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 155.

12:28 **And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? **12:29 **And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: **12:30 **And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. **
12:31 **And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. ****There is none other commandment greater than these. **~Mark KJV
If ye love me, keep my commandments. ~John 14:15
**A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. **~John 13:34-35

The teachings of Christ have been promulgated by Bahá’u’lláh, Who has also revealed new teachings applicable to present conditions in the world of humanity. ~‘Abdu’l-Bahá, PUP, p. 290
**
O SON OF SPIRIT! There is no peace for thee save by renouncing thyself and turning unto Me; for it behooveth thee to glory in My name, not in thine own; to put thy trust in Me and not in thyself, since I desire to be loved alone and above all that is. **~Bahá’u’lláh, The Arabic Hidden Words, #8
By Thy Most Great Name, O Thou Lord of all nations! I have desired only what Thou didst desire, and love only what Thou dost love. ~Bahá’u’lláh, from the obligatory prayer

O servant of Bahá! Be self-sacrificing in the path of God, and wing thy flight unto the heavens of the love of the Abhá Beauty, for any movement animated by love moveth from the periphery to the centre, from space to the Day-Star of the universe. Perchance thou deemest this to be difficult, but I tell thee that such cannot be the case, for when the motivating and guiding power is the divine force of magnetism it is possible, by its aid, to traverse time and space easily and swiftly. Glory be upon the people of Bahá. ~Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 197

**Cleave thou, therefore, with the whole affection of thine heart, unto His love, and withdraw it from the love of anyone besides Him, that He may aid thee to immerse thyself in the ocean of His unity, and enable thee to become a true upholder of His oneness… **~Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, 237

**The Best-Beloved is come. In His right hand is the sealed Wine of His name. Happy is the man that turneth unto Him, and drinketh his fill, and exclaimeth: *“Praise be to Thee, O Revealer of the signs of God!” *By the righteousness of the Almighty! Every hidden thing hath been manifested through the power of truth. All the favors of God have been sent down, as a token of His grace. The waters of everlasting life have, in their fullness, been proffered unto men. Every single cup hath been borne round by the hand of the Well-Beloved. Draw near, and tarry not, though it be for one short moment. **(Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 33)

 

[vivs3]

I don’t understand what the point of that was.
But they were meaningful sayings.

 

[DavidMark]

I see you expressing doubt a lot, and I would like to see a spirit of confirmation.
You say you don’t see the point, but the sayings ARE meaningful.
IF they are meaningful, you got the point!
There is no difference essentially in the mesage of Christ and Baha’u’llah.
Don’t have a doubt about either one.

Humanity is slowly moving towards one mind and one heart, worshipping God with “one accord”. This has been promised and can only be facilitated by the divine Manifestation.

**The light of the celestial world makes war against the world of shadow and illusion. The rays of the Sun of Truth dispel the darkness of superstition and misunderstanding. You are of the Spirit! To you who seek the truth, the Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh will come as a great joy! This teaching is of the Spirit, in it is no precept which is not of the Divine Spirit. **(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 85)

 

[vivs3]

There is no difference essentially in the mesage of Christ and Baha’u’llah.
Don’t have a doubt about either one.

If there’s no difference why don’t christianity and bahais come together?
Like why is there a bahai religion in the first place? cos bahaullah came and started up a new religion? huh is that why???

 

[jen_fla]

If there’s no difference why don’t christianity and bahais come together?
Like why is there a bahai religion in the first place? cos bahaullah came and started up a new religion? huh is that why???

one very smart teenager.