"The Baha'i Faith"

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jen_fla said:
one very smart teenager.

🙂
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Thanks Jen 🙂
Seriously this topic just frustrates me so much because I haven’t gotten anywhere in the past month. I’ve been talking to my Bahai friend, and the way he just put forths his idea and just ignores mine, is just ridiculous.
I really want to understand the Bahai Faith and yet sometimes I wonder if what they say is all true.
Like I read this website, and it’s really interesting:
arabicbible.com/christian/bahai_faith.htm

However Jen, just please take a moment if you can and answer me this question

Do you really believe that Bahaullah is the Second Coming of Christ?
I don’t need a lecture or anything but a yes or no is fine with a reason (length: one sentence :D)

Thanks 👍
 
vivs3 said:
However Jen, just please take a moment if you can and answer me this question

Do you really believe that Bahaullah is the Second Coming of Christ?
I don’t need a lecture or anything but a yes or no is fine with a reason (length: one sentence :D)

Thanks 👍
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absolutely not. he is a false prophet who’s teachings go against Christianity. no matter how eloquent and persuasive arguments can be, when someone tells you up is down, you must hold tight to the Truth that you know!

and btw, logic and religion need not be at war with each other.

peace,
jen
 
Francis Beckwith you’ll note is a Christian critic of our Faith and if you have something you’d like to raise here that you’d like a commnet on from Baha’is I’m sure some of us would like to respond


There are parallels I think historically though between the emergence say of Christianity from Judaism and the emergence of the Baha’i Faith from Islam
 In the first years of the Baha’i Faith it is estimated twenty thousand people were martyred and today the Faith is still being persecuted in countries like Iran


The principles revealed by Baha’u’llah around the 1860-1870 to eliminate prejudice and to build a world of peace were also addressed to the world leaders of the time including a Letter to the Pope Pius IX that you may find of interest here on this forum since it was addressed to His Holiness:

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/SLH/slh-5.html

this was also around the time of the loss of the Papal states in central Italy.
 
vivs3 said:
If there’s no difference why don’t christianity and bahais come together? Like why is there a bahai religion in the first place? cos bahaullah came and started up a new religion? huh is that why???
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No it is not. It’s important to realize that Jesus did not start a new religion either, He renewed the ancient Faith of the one true God. Sure there were other man-made cults around,and they don’t last forever. Some outward provisions may change, but the divine Physician is the same, His skill and purpose and power are unchanged. When Christ returns (as we say He has) it is the same again:

Immerse yourselves in the ocean of My words, that ye may unravel its secrets, and discover all the pearls of wisdom that lie hid in its depths. Take heed that ye do not vacillate in your determination to embrace the truth of this Cause – a Cause through which the potentialities of the might of God have been revealed, and His sovereignty established. With faces beaming with joy, hasten ye unto Him.
This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it – verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures.(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 136)

I mention certain criteria that Christ or the OT gave that are followed by the sincere ones. 1) Do His Pophecies come true? (Deut. 18:22)
An example of Baha’u’llah’s prophecies to the Kings, is this one to Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany:
O banks of the Rhine! We have seen you covered with gore, inasmuch as the swords of retribution were drawn against you; and you shall have another turn. And We hear the lamentations of Berlin, though she be today in conspicuous glory.(Baha’u’llah, Kitab-i-Aqdas)
2) You SHALL know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:16) What are the fruits of His teaching --are they good or bad for mankind? The basic twelve principles 'Abdu’l-Baha summarized have been compared to the fruits of the Tree of Life, which renews itsef each month, and the Lord’s Supper, or 19 Day Feast in the Baha’i Calendar, in which they are magnified and instilled in the hearts of the believers.
3) He shall testify to Christ.
1 John 4:2 **Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: **4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The testimonies to Jesus are so many and vivid that one will suffice here:
Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee.(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 85)

Now, either Baha’u’llah was a lunatic, a liar, or the Lord, when He makes the claims about His own station. If you have looked into His life, and how He acted under duress; and if you are discerning, you can tell the true answer, from these biblical tests. But the same was true for Jews, and they refused to see the truth of Christ, except for a few exceptional ones. It is those, the receptive ones, that we watch for, like hawks
so that an influx in refreshing, spirited belief will continue and grow into a new civililzation. The rest are grouped with the unbelievers
 who see the new Message of God and reject it.
 
Vivian: In the case of Jews and Christ, many generations of Christians have failed in convincing the majority of Jews He was the Messiah; and theirs was the matrix that Jesus came out of.
Now, the same can be said of the generality of Iranian leaders after 150 years. Nevertheless, the Faith has gone on without them
the dark clouds that try to cover up the sun. Their time of reckoning is rapidly approaching.
This is how Jen is, thinking she is contending for God, and opposing Him every day. I look forward to our two souls witnessing the truth in the next world, where all things will be crystal clear. Then she, and others like her, will know. But God doesn’t want us to wait until then to realize. He wants us to use our faculties to believe now, before it is too late.

Watch over yourselves, for the Evil One (Ahriman) is lying in wait, ready to entrap you. Gird yourselves against his wicked devices, and, led by the light of the name of the All-Seeing God, make your escape from the darkness that surroundeth you. Let your vision be world-embracing, rather than confined to your own self. The Evil One is he that hindereth the rise and obstructeth the spiritual progress of the children of men.(Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 86)
 
**But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. **(The Gospel of Matthew 23:13)

Jesus said, **“The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of Knowledge and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves.” **(The Gospel of Thomas v.39)

Viv: It amazes me that people go to every source but Baha’u’llah to find out about Baha’u’llah.

Would ye ask the Jews whether Jesus was the True One from God, or the idols if Muhammad was an Apostle of His Lord, or inquire from the people of the Qur’án as to Him Who was the Remembrance of God, the Most Exalted, the Most Great?
(Baha’u’llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 42)
 
Okay you know what, I truly don’t care anymore.
I don’t believe Bahaullah is the second coming of Jesus Christ.
And you know what, if that makes me a bad person, than so be it.
If me not believing in the idea that he is"Truly the Second Coming of Christ", stops me from entering heaven, than so be it.
If that makes me reject Jesus Christ and God himself, THAN SO BE IT!!!
Cause you know what, the Bahai faith makes me confused sooo much, it’s not funny.
I believe in Jesus Christ and God.
I have soo much faith in them.
I don’t care if I was a Jew, a Buddah, a Bahai, or whatever, nothing will stop me from believing in God and Jesus Christ.
But I know one thing - I truly believe that Jesus Christ HAS NOT RETURNED.
 
Recipe for Reciprocity

So you do not believe in yourself? Does that mean we’re done talking here?

You should not have wished for Us that which ye have not wished for yourselves

(Bahá’u’lláh, SM #32)

They forsook Allah and Allah forsook them. (The Qur’án 9:68)

Say to the righteous that it will go well with them, for they will eat the fruit of their actions.
Woe to the wicked! It will go badly with him, for what he deserves will be done to him. (Isaiah 3:10-11)

For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again
 (Luke 6:38)

Arise, in My Name, amongst My servants, and say: ‘O ye peoples of the earth!
Turn yourselves towards Him Who hath turned towards you.
He, verily, is the Face of God amongst you,
and His Testimony and His Guide unto you.
He hath come to you with signs which none can produce.’

We bade him embrace the Truth. But he turned away until,
as an act of justice from God, angels of wrath laid hold upon him.
Unto this We truly were a witness.
(Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, #170, p. 81)

And Allah’s is what is in the heavens and what is in the earth, that He may reward those who do evil according to what they do, and that He may reward those who do good with goodness. (Qur’án 53:31)

Lo! Allah wrongeth not mankind in aught; but mankind wrong themselves. (Qur’an 10:44)

He who dealeth faithlessly with God shall in justice meet with faithlessness himself;
he, however, who acteth in accordance with God’s bidding shall receive a blessing from the heaven of the bounty of his Lord, the Gracious, the Bestower, the Generous, the Ancient of Days. ~Bahá’u’lláh, (Kitab-i-Aqdas, # 97)

O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee.
If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee.
Know this, O servant. (Bahá’u’lláh, The Arabic Hidden Words, #5)

“
O people of Bahá! The river that is Life indeed hath flowed for your sakes.
Quaff ye in My name, despite them that have disbelieved in God, the Lord of Revelation. We have made you to be the hands of Our Cause. Render ye victorious this Wronged One, Who hath been sore-tried in the hands of the workers of iniquity. **He, verily, will aid everyone that aideth Him, and will remember everyone that remembereth Him. **To this beareth witness this Tablet that hath shed the splendor of the loving-kindness of your Lord, the All-Glorious, the All-Compelling.” (Bahá’u’lláh, quoted by Shoghi Effendi in The Advent of Divine Justice, p. 75)
 
Vivian,

No one is saying you’re a “bad person” Vivian and you are entitled to your beliefs
 As to being confused about Baha’i Faith
 now’s a great time to ask any questions.
  • Art;)
 
But no one is saying she or we are absolutely good either. Faith gives us hope to improve ourselves, but we have all fallen short of the “Glory of God” and are in need of forgiveness.
Being a Catholic doesn’t necessarily make you a good person, else why would you need confession? Just don’t leave it up to the leaders to tell you when the Lord comes!

God will verily do unto them that which they themselves are doing, and will forget them even as they have ignored His Presence in His day. Such is His decree unto those that have denied Him, and such will it be unto them that have rejected His signs. ~Bahá’u’lláh, Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 256
 
No, I do not wish to ask anymore questions.
I’m done with the Bahai Faith.
However Jen, if you think Bahaullah is a false prophet, then where did he get all he’s like writings from etc?
 
Yes, Jen where did all these matchless verses come from, when the Báb & Bahá’u’lláh were as unschooled as the twelve year old Jesus?

Such bounty and revelation have been made manifest, that the revealed verses seemed as vernal showers raining from the clouds of the mercy of the All-Bountiful.
The Prophets “endowed with constancy,” whose loftiness and glory shine as the sun, were each honoured with a Book which all have seen, and the verses of which have been duly ascertained. Whereas the verses which have rained from this Cloud of divine mercy have been so abundant that none hath yet been able to estimate their number.
A score of volumes are now available. How many still remain beyond our reach!
How many have been plundered and have fallen into the hands of the enemy, the fate of which none knoweth.(Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 215)

In view of this, is it fair for this people to repudiate these newly-revealed verses which have encompassed both the East and the West, and to regard themselves as the upholders of true belief? Should they not rather believe in Him Who hath revealed these verses? Considering the testimony which He Himself hath established, how could He fail to account as true believers them that have testified to its truth?
Far be it from Him that He should turn away from the gates of His mercy them that have turned unto and embraced the truth of the divine verses, or that He should threaten those that have clung to His sure testimony! He verily establisheth the truth through His verses, and confirmeth His Revelation by His words. He verily is the Powerful, the Help in peril, the Almighty.(Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 218)
 
The purpose of the Báb was to prepare the way for Bahá’u’lláh in the same way that John the Baptist prepared for Jesus. If one studies the life and mission of the Báb, a striking similarity to Jesus’ life and mission appear; it is a matter of accepting truth. If you accept one, you cannot reject the other --otherwise your acceptance of the other is suspect.
By rejecting the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh a person vitiates any declaration of faith they have made for any of God’s other Prophets. To deny one is to deny all. Therefore, Jen has said that Jesus is absolutely a false prophet by saying so about His return (God forbid!). This is an important matter, as you can well see! She is free to do so; and God and His Revelations remain unchanged.

With such words the BĂĄb quickened the faith of His disciples and launched them upon their mission. To each He assigned his own native province as the field of his labours.
He directed them each and all to refrain from specific references to His own name and person.
He instructed them to raise the call that the Gate to the Promised One has been opened, that His proof is irrefutable, and that His testimony is complete.
He bade them declare that whoever believes in Him has believed in all the prophets of God, and that whoever denies Him has denied all His saints and His chosen ones. (The Dawn-Breakers, p. 94)

Be thou assured in thyself that verily, he who turns away from this Beauty hath also turned away from the Messengers of the past and showeth pride towards God from all eternity to all eternity.(Baha’u’llah, Tablet of Ahmad)
 
No, excuse me DavidMark, how dare you say that Jen and I do not believe in Jesus Christ and God, because we don’t believe in Bahaullah!!
That’s preposterous.
And who said we are rejecting Bahaullah? Just because we do not believe he is the second coming of christ, doesn’t make it so (as in it doesn’t make it that we are rejecting Bahaullah, we jst don’t believe he came, so how can we knowingly reject him when we don’t even know he came).
 
This passage is about Baha’u’llah:
Psalms 24:7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors;
and the King of glory shall come in.
24:8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
24:9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors;
and the King of glory shall come in.
24:10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

**Say: O concourse of the rulers and of the learned and the wise! The Promised Day is come and the LORD of Hosts hath appeared. Rejoice ye with great joy by reason of this supreme felicity. Aid Him then through the power of wisdom and utterance. Thus biddeth you the One Who hath ever proclaimed, ‘Verily, no God is there but Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.’ **(Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 239)
O ye leaders of religion! Who is the man amongst you that can rival Me in vision or insight? Where is he to be found that dareth to claim to be My equal in utterance or wisdom?
No, by My Lord, the All-Merciful! All on the earth shall pass away; and this is the face of your Lord, the Almighty, the Well-Beloved. (Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 56)

**We are with you at all times, and shall strengthen you through the power of truth. We are truly almighty. Whoso hath recognized Me, will arise and serve Me with such determination that the powers of earth and heaven shall be unable to defeat his purpose. **(Bahá’u’lláh, GWB, p. 137)
**There lay concealed within the Holy Veil, and prepared for the service of God, a company of His chosen ones who shall be manifested unto men, who shall aid His Cause, who shall be afraid of no one, though the entire human race rise up and war against them. These are the ones who, before the gaze of the dwellers on earth and the denizens of heaven, shall arise and, shouting aloud, acclaim the name of the Almighty, and summon the children of men to the path of God, the All-Glorious, the All-Praised. Walk thou in their way, and let no one dismay thee. Be of them whom the tumult of the world, however much it may agitate them in the path of their Creator, can never sadden, whose purpose the blame of the blamer will never defeat. **(Bahá’u’lláh, GWB, p. 280)
 
vivs3 said:
No, excuse me DavidMark, how dare you say that Jen and I do not believe in Jesus Christ and God, because we don’t believe in Bahaullah!!
That’s preposterous.
And who said we are rejecting Bahaullah? Just because we do not believe he is the second coming of christ, doesn’t make it so (as in it doesn’t make it that we are rejecting Bahaullah, we jst don’t believe he came, so how can we knowingly reject him when we don’t even know he came).
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vivs3

there have been thousands of new religions with new leaders or so called prophets popping up all over the place since Christ founded His Church. there is some truth in all religions, but we must reject the parts that are not true. in order for someone to sell you a lie, it is usually done by mixing some truth in with it. some of the bahai’s faith is identical to Catholicism and some goes against it. it’s a simple as that.

all you get from this thread is quotes from bahaullah. i’m done with this thread too. i’ll respond further to your questions when i have more energy.

just keep this time line in mind. it focuses on the numerous Christian denominations that have sprung up, but i threw the bahai’s faith in there just for some perspective.

until then, peace.

How Old Is Your Church?

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.

in 1863, bahaullah announced Himself as the One promised by the BĂĄb

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," “Pentecostal Gospel.” “Holiness Church,” “Pilgrim Holiness Church,” “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” “Rastafari” your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.

If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
 
I don’t want to clash; but if someone tells me Bahá’u’lláh is absolutely a false prophet, I will arise in His defense. My heart is hurt when someone shows aspersion for the least teaching from the Most Great Name. I agree, it’s better if you’re done with this thread, Jen.

And I think that just as the crucifixion was a sign of hope for Christians, like the bronze serpent in the wilderness, it can become an obstacle too, just as the bronze serpent was later, if people allow it to prevent them from something better.

God is fully capable of bringing something better to mankind, as He promised, and replacing what we had with it, and expecting us to acknolwedge it without complaint.
**
It is certain that no matter how capable man may be in origination of plan and organization of purpose, his efforts will be inadequate when compared with the divine plan and purpose; for the policy of God is perfect. Therefore, we must follow the will and plan of God. As He is kind to all, we must be likewise; and it is certain that this will be most acceptable to God. **(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 127)

So, we do not agree on this Good News. Go with my blessing, but I will remain here, and I will post Bahá’í quotations so that others may see. I didn’t come here in the beginning to take part in Mateo’s doubts but to rectify them. I see many like him, expressing mystification that there could be such a thing as Bahá’í faith and unwilling to show sympathy or look deeper. You cannot accept a part. It is all or nothing.

I have never denied Christ, but others continually see Bahá’u’lláh as other than Christ, and that is the problem. Their purpose and power is one, and this will eventually become apparent to their souls in this world or the next.

There is no comparison between Bahá’u’lláh and other purported teachers who have come since. Those who rely on tradition will be disappointed to learn that the Lord has other plans for human civilization than preserving this or that tradition.

Terrific tests and chalenges are in store for mankind if it does not weld itself together into one community. Bahá’u’lláh is the Ark, the sole citadel of protection.

It beseemeth all men, in this Day, to take firm hold on the Most Great Name, and to establish the unity of all mankind. There is no place to flee to, no refuge that any one can seek, except Him. Should any man be led to utter such words as will turn away the people from the shores of God’s limitless ocean, and cause them to fix their hearts on anything except this glorious and manifest Being, that hath assumed a form subject to human limitations – such a man, however lofty the station he may occupy, shall be denounced by the entire creation as one that hath deprived himself of the sweet savors of the All-Merciful.(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 203)
 
Jen wrote:

“
in 1863, Baha’u’llah announced Himself as the One promised by the Báb”.

My reply:

This is correct
 The Bab declared HIs Mission in Shiraz and again in Mecca later the same year 1844 or 1260 AH in the Muslim calendar. The Baha’i Calendar begins in 1844 or 1260


The newborn Child is the Beauty of the Adored One,[The Bab] come forth out of the Law of God. He then saith that the woman fled into the wilderness, that is, the Law of God was carried out of Palestine to the desert of Hijaz, where it remained 1260 years – that is, until the advent of the promised Child. And as is well known, in the Holy Books, every day is accounted as one year.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 172

While in exile from His homeland of Persia, Baha’u’llah declared He was Him Whom God would make manifest on an island in the Tigris River near Bagdad called by us Baha’is the Ridwan Garden in April 1863.

One thing I’d like to add though and that is that the Baha’i Faith is not a “church” or claim to be a denomination of Christianity. It has it’s own calendar and Holy Places and Writings. 🙂
 
Thank you Arthra for clarifying that.
1260 “days” or actual years, 42 “months” or 3Âœ “times” are given in many places in Daniel, Revelation and elsewhere. Since that period ended in 1844, we find, if we extrapolate back in time, that no one else but Muhammad and Ali are the “two witnesses” mentioned in Revelation 11.

Rev. 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

The “three woes” that much of the world, including Catholics, have so far denied, are Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh, who followed soon after the Báb.

I suggest people read SĂșriy-i-Haykal for a mystical perspective
and SĂșriy-i-MulĂșk for Bahá’u’llĂĄh’s counsels to the kings.
 
arthra said:
Jen wrote:

“
in 1863, Baha’u’llah announced Himself as the One promised by the Báb”.

My reply:

This is correct
 The Bab declared HIs Mission in Shiraz and again in Mecca later the same year 1844 or 1260 AH in the Muslim calendar. The Baha’i Calendar begins in 1844 or 1260


The newborn Child is the Beauty of the Adored One,[The Bab] come forth out of the Law of God. He then saith that the woman fled into the wilderness, that is, the Law of God was carried out of Palestine to the desert of Hijaz, where it remained 1260 years – that is, until the advent of the promised Child. And as is well known, in the Holy Books, every day is accounted as one year.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 172

While in exile from His homeland of Persia, Baha’u’llah declared He was Him Whom God would make manifest on an island in the Tigris River near Bagdad called by us Baha’is the Ridwan Garden in April 1863.

One thing I’d like to add though and that is that the Baha’i Faith is not a “church” or claim to be a denomination of Christianity. It has it’s own calendar and Holy Places and Writings. 🙂
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i did not say it was a denomination of Christianity.

i wrote this:
just keep this time line in mind. it focuses on the numerous Christian denominations that have sprung up, but i threw the bahai’s faith in there just for some perspective.
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peace
 
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