"The Baha'i Faith"

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DavidMark said:
I don’t want to clash; but if someone tells me Bahá’u’lláh is absolutely a false prophet, I will arise in His defense. My heart is hurt when someone shows aspersion for the least teaching from the Most Great Name. I agree, it’s better if you’re done with this thread, Jen.

And I think that just as the crucifixion was a sign of hope for Christians, like the bronze serpent in the wilderness, it can become an obstacle too, just as the bronze serpent was later, if people allow it to prevent them from something better.

God is fully capable of bringing something better to mankind, as He promised, and replacing what we had with it, and expecting us to acknolwedge it without complaint.
**
It is certain that no matter how capable man may be in origination of plan and organization of purpose, his efforts will be inadequate when compared with the divine plan and purpose; for the policy of God is perfect. Therefore, we must follow the will and plan of God. As He is kind to all, we must be likewise; and it is certain that this will be most acceptable to God. **(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 127)

So, we do not agree on this Good News. Go with my blessing, but I will remain here, and I will post Bahá’í quotations so that others may see. I didn’t come here in the beginning to take part in Mateo’s doubts but to rectify them. I see many like him, expressing mystification that there could be such a thing as Bahá’í faith and unwilling to show sympathy or look deeper. You cannot accept a part. It is all or nothing.

I have never denied Christ, but others continually see Bahá’u’lláh as other than Christ, and that is the problem. Their purpose and power is one, and this will eventually become apparent to their souls in this world or the next.

There is no comparison between Bahá’u’lláh and other purported teachers who have come since. Those who rely on tradition will be disappointed to learn that the Lord has other plans for human civilization than preserving this or that tradition.

Terrific tests and chalenges are in store for mankind if it does not weld itself together into one community. Bahá’u’lláh is the Ark, the sole citadel of protection.

It beseemeth all men, in this Day, to take firm hold on the Most Great Name, and to establish the unity of all mankind. There is no place to flee to, no refuge that any one can seek, except Him. Should any man be led to utter such words as will turn away the people from the shores of God’s limitless ocean, and cause them to fix their hearts on anything except this glorious and manifest Being, that hath assumed a form subject to human limitations – such a man, however lofty the station he may occupy, shall be denounced by the entire creation as one that hath deprived himself of the sweet savors of the All-Merciful.(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 203)
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and yet for some reason you can deny that Christ is God, promote teachings that go against the Catholic Church and then come out and state that Christians reject Christ because we don’t follow the words of another human being.

simply ridiculous.

you know what? my heart hurts too.
 
Jen wrote above:

and yet for some reason you can deny that Christ is God, promote teachings that go against the Catholic Church and then come out and state that Christians reject Christ because we don’t follow the words of another human being.

simply ridiculous.
…

Thanks for your post:

In our view it goes something like this:

*We believe God manifested Himself through Jesus but we Baha’is are not interested in attacking the Catholic Church… *

Christ’s Return has been an expectation since the time of the Gospels as noted in scripture and surely that’s part of believing in Jesus. All we would suggest is that it should be investigated…

and that in my view isn’t rediculous. 🙂
 
yeah that’s right, how can you say you do not believe that Jesus Christ is God, and yet you say:
You cannot accept a part. It is all or nothing
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So if you’re not accepting it all, which you’re not, cos you don’t believe in that. then that means you don’t believe in anything.
Hah you can’t talk.
 
jen fla/vivs3:

We are not making up our belief as we go; it is given to us. It won’t change, and more and more people are entering into it. We do not break ourselves fighting it; the enemies will do that for us; and we’ll continue being close to Bahá’u’lláh. This is Bahá’í. We accept Bahá’u’lláh because we see in Him the same radiance as Christ, and He is vigilant for our protection in this dark and ruinous age.

“Thou art my glory and my glory fadeth not…” (Antal bahá’í, va bahá’í la yoksha)

This is from the prayer I just said this morning:
Exalted art Thou above the description of any one save Thyself,
and the comprehension of aught else except Thee…
Too high art Thou for the praise of those who are nigh unto Thee to ascend unto the heaven of Thy nearness, or for the birds of the hearts of them who are devoted to Thee to attain to the door of Thy gate.
I testify that Thou hast been sanctified above all attributes and holy above all names.
No God is there but Thee, the Most Exalted the All-Glorious.

(The last verse in Arabic is “La illaha illa ant, al-'Alíyyul Abhá” and refers specifically to the Báb & Bahá’u’lláh)

I believe that the divine Messengers Who were given Books are the mediators between the Unknowable Essence and the minds of humanity, the crown of creation. As Manifestations of God, They are all we can grasp of God, and it is portioned out to us at His pleasure. When I say this prayer, I realize that even the Most Great Name, (that was promised in Revelation 2:12 & 3:17) is still humbled and awed by the Impenetrable Mystery of the Divine Being …but to us, the Most Great Name is the Voice of God from the Burning Bush, or the Son of God, or the Son of Man.

God is not prevented from revealing new glories from His Kingdom. In one age He is manifest as a Virgin-born Son, and in another as the Everlasting Father and King of a planetary dominion that is growing inexorably because it is willed in the spiritual world, within the protection of the metaphysical garden of His Covenant, that no profane hand can touch or harm.

So, we do not deny that Jesus was God, I keep repeating it. This manifestation of God has appeared periodically before and after Jesus, however. A Jew would be offended if we said to him that he has denied God, because of his devices not to believe in Jesus. All the people of the world have carved these excuses for themselves not to accept particular Manifestations.

Now we assert that the resolution to these impassable quandries is the universal Manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh. This will not change, no matter if the entire world opposes it.

** As Christians believe in Moses, so the Jews should believe in Jesus. As the Muhammadans believe in Christ and Moses, so likewise the Jews and the Christians should believe in Muhammad. Then all disputes would disappear, all then would be united. Bahá’u’lláh came for this purpose. He has made the three religions one.** ~‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London, p. 43
 
DavidMark said:
** As Christians believe in Moses, so the Jews should believe in Jesus. As the Muhammadans believe in Christ and Moses, so likewise the Jews and the Christians should believe in Muhammad. Then all disputes would disappear, all then would be united. Bahá’u’lláh came for this purpose. He has made the three religions one.** ~‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London, p. 43
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yeah but he failed, there is still arguments between all three faiths; christian, jews, bahai.
If jesus did really come, which i don’t believe he has, then he would of actually had the power to stop all these arguments and debate and put an end!! but since that hasn’t happened yet, i don’t think bahaullah is the real second coming. so yeah.
Don’t you agree Jen? 😃
 
“he would of actually had the power to stop all these arguments and debate and put an end!! but since that hasn’t happened yet…”

Maybe that’s just your “magical thinking” that He would just wave His magic wand and “presto chango” everything will be “hunky dorey” but it’s left for us to work toward ending a lot of the ignorance and superstition that’s built up over the centuries… so roll up your shirt sleeves and let’s get to work!

.🙂
 
There was no sweeping conviction in previous dispensations, when the True One spoke. There was always opposition and tests, thru which the gold shone brighter in the heat of affliction. So yeah (?) It proves nothing to God to sweep all of us one way or the other. He wants to see who strives, by his own volition, who craves discipleship, selflessness and service. The glory comes from the suffering.

I see a logo at the top of our page that says Pure Heart, and this is dear to us Bahá’ís because the first Hidden Word says:
O SON OF SPIRIT! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting.(Baha’u’llah, The Arabic Hidden Words, #1)

It is the heart that first recognizes its Lord, it is the sorrowful heart that must be comforted with compassion, and what better heart to do this than the very Heart and Soul of the Promised Compassionate Comforter?

This is the Father foretold by Isaiah, and the Comforter concerning Whom the Spirit had covenanted with you. Open your eyes, O concourse of bishops, that ye may behold your Lord seated upon the Throne of might and glory. (Baha’u’llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 63)

But we are all aware of the claim by now. Some will take it and some will not. Let’s accept that this is the Catholic forum, and we are Bahá’í guests, and leave all in God’s hands, Who has ever been Patient, Generous, Wise and Kind.

One of the things that we agree on is that the soul begins with the conception of the precious child, and morality is the best constraint, and that we should not indulge the animal impulse, but seek the Kingdom first, and all other things will follow.
 
Whatever, trevor.
As long as we do believe that God exists, than we really shouldn’t be arguing. I say this because I was in class today and some guy said God does not exist and we full on argued about it, but the teacher stopped us.
So we should be grateful for all those people who believe in God, and that we should encourage one another, and not argue about our different religions.
And do not go against me when I say I don’t think Bahaullah is the return of Christ. Just be grateful I believe in God, unlike a lot of people ok?
yep, I’m done here.
 
O ye believers of God! The text of the divine Book is this: If two souls quarrel and contend about a question of the divine questions, differing and disputing, both are wrong. The wisdom of this incontrovertible law of God is this: That between two souls from amongst the believers of God, no contention and dispute may arise; that they may speak with each other with infinite amity and love. Should there appear the least trace of controversy, they must remain silent, and both parties must continue their discussions no longer, but ask the reality of the question from the Interpreter. This is the irrefutable command! Upon you be Bahá’u’l-Abhá!('Abdu’l-Bahá, Tablets of the Divine Plan, p. 56)

People can’t learn enough about God just by strolling through the redwoods; there needs to be a connection with one of the divine Manifestations, and it is wonderful that you love Christ!

For Christ declared, “Love your enemies, … and pray for them which … persecute you; that you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” How can hatred, hostility and persecution be reconciled with Christ and His teachings? Therefore, there is need of turning back to the original foundation.
 
This recent war has proved to the world and the people that war is destruction while Universal Peace is construction; war is death while peace is life;
war is rapacity and bloodthirstiness while peace is beneficence and humaneness;
war is an appurtenance of the world of nature while peace is of the foundation of the religion of God;
war is darkness upon darkness while peace is heavenly light;
war is the destroyer of the edifice of mankind while peace is the everlasting life of the world of humanity;
war is like a devouring wolf while peace is like the angels of heaven;
war is the struggle for existence while peace is mutual aid and co-operation among
the peoples of the world and the cause of the good-pleasure of the True One
in the heavenly realm.
Code: 
        ~ Abdu'l-Baha, 
           Tablet to the Hague
          (a letter written by 'Abdu'l-Baha 
           to the Central Organization for a Durable Peace
           The Hague
           17 December 1919)
 
Point being?
Mate talk to me in my language, don’t get sophisticated with me.
Like talk casually.
 
arthra said:
Jen wrote above:

and yet for some reason you can deny that Christ is God, promote teachings that go against the Catholic Church and then come out and state that Christians reject Christ because we don’t follow the words of another human being.

simply ridiculous.
…

Thanks for your post:

In our view it goes something like this:

*We believe God manifested Himself through Jesus but we Baha’is are not interested in attacking the Catholic Church… *

Christ’s Return has been an expectation since the time of the Gospels as noted in scripture and surely that’s part of believing in Jesus. All we would suggest is that it should be investigated…

and that in my view isn’t rediculous. 🙂
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arthra, i do not believe that you personally want to attack anyone. you appear to be a very kind patient person, but the facts are your religion teaches against the Catholic Church. you can not say that they don’t when the sayings of your prophet do.

please go reread post #416 for one example. clearly that is an attack on one of the Sacraments that Christ’s Church established.

rehashing another baha’i inconsistency is that Christ stated marriage is between man and woman (just the TWO of them) yet mohammed taught the muslims they could marry 4 wives …even though he somehow had more. 🤷 go figure… i digress… your group may be against polygamy (i think it is), but how do you say that mohammed was teaching God’s will as well? God is fickle, can’t make up his mind? i’ve covered already how your relativistic time line doesn’t make sense already. there were Christians around when mohammed came and taught something new… you think God wanted the conflicting views which lead to wars? nonsense.

like vivs3 pointed out i am very glad you worship God and i am grateful for all we have in common, but i just wish your organization would be honest and admit their message has PARTS that are the same as Christianity, but also teaches things that are DIFFERENT. it’s yet another religion, not some unique organization that ties them all together. the only way they can do that is by being intellectually dishonest.

and the Catholic/Orthodox position on Christ’s return is that it’s going to be a pretty spectacular event that no one will miss.

…NOT another man claiming all to himself he is the second coming of Christ. :rolleyes:

“If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.” -st augustine
 
unoriginal. sigh. messiah claimants:
    • Simon Magus and Dositheos the Samaritan[9], mid first century
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    * Montanus, who claimed to be the promised Paraclete, mid second century
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    * Adalbert, a bishop who claimed miraculous powers circa 744; he was excommunicated by the Pope.
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    * Tanchelm of Antwerp (ca. 1110), who violently opposed the sacrament and the Eucharist.
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    * Ann Lee (1736-1784), a central figure to the Shakers who thought she "embodied all the perfections of God" in female form.
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    * Bernhard Müller (c.1799-1834) claimed to be the Lion of Judah and a prophet in possession of the Philosopher's stone.
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    * John Nichols Thom (1799-1838), a Cornish tax rebel.
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    * Arnold Potter (1804–1872), Latter Day Saint schismatic leader; called himself "Potter Christ"
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    * Hong Xiuquan of China (1812-1864), claimed to be the younger brother of Jesus.
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    * Bahá'u'lláh (1817-1892), born Shiite, adopting Bábism later in life, he claimed to be the promised one of all religions, and founded the Bahá'í Faith.
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    * William W. Davies (1833–1906), Latter Day Saint schismatic leader; claimed that his infant son Arthur (b. 1868) was the reincarnated Jesus Christ
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    * George Baker (c. 1880 – September 10, 1965), also known as Father Divine, was an African American spiritual leader from about 1907 until his death.
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    * Haile Selassie of Ethiopia (1892-1975), Messiah of the Rastafari movement. Never claimed himself to be messiah, but was proclaimed by Leonard Howell, amongst others.
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    * Georges-Emest Roux (1903-1981), the "Christ of Montfavet," founder of the Universal Christian Church.
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    * Sun Myung Moon (b. 1920), founder of the Unification Church. Claims he is the Second Coming of Christ.[10][11]
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    * Yahweh ben Yahweh (1935-2007), born as Hulon Mitchell, Jr., a black nationalist and separatist who created the Nation of Yahweh and allegedly orchestrated the murder of dozens of persons.
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    * Iesu Matayoshi (b. 1944), in 1997 he established the World Economic Community Party based on his conviction that he is God and the Christ.
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    * Jung Myung Seok (b. 1945), claims to be the Second Coming of Christ, founder of Providence Church, and convicted rapist.
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    * Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda (b. 1946), a Puerto Rican preacher who has claimed to be "the Man Jesus Christ", who is indwelled with the same spirit that dwelled in Jesus. Founder of the Growing in grace" ministries.
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    * Inri Cristo (b. 1948) of Indaial, Brazil, a claimant to be the second Jesus.[12]
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    * Apollo Quiboloy (b. 1950) Claims that Jesus Christ is the Almighty Father. He is the Appointed Son (Rev. 21:7), Says salvation is now completed. He is called "His Appointed Son" by thousands in the Philippines and now in other countries.
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    * David Icke (b. 1952), of Great Britain, has described himself as "the son of God," and a "channel for the Christ spirit."
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    * David Koresh (Vernon Wayne Howell) (1959-1993), leader of the Branch Davidians.
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    * Maria Devi Christos (b. 1960), founder of the Great White Brotherhood.
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    * Sergei Torop (b. 1961) who started to call himself "Vissarion," founder of the Church of the Last Testament and the spiritual community Ecopolis Tiberkul in Southern Siberia.
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    * Wayne Bent (b. 1941), also known as Michael Travesser of the Strong City Cult, arraigned May 8, 2008 for charges of sexually molesting underage followers.
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    * David Shayler (b. 1965) ("Righteous Chav"), former MI5 agent and whistleblower who declared himself the Messiah on 7 July 2007.
taken from here
 
jen fla: “…the Catholic/Orthodox position on Christ’s return is that it’s going to be a pretty spectacular event that no one will miss.”

Luke12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

“If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.” -st augustine

It is not for us to go to the doctor and then disagree with his prescription. The conditions of the Arabs necessitated a limit on wives; but they were not ready for the monogamy some practiced, and there is little Biblical evidence that I can find that polygamy was disliked by God.

Behold, how lofty is the station, and how consummate the virtue, of these verses which He hath declared to be His surest testimony, His infallible proof, the evidence of His all-subduing power, and a revelation of the potency of His will. He, the divine King, hath proclaimed the undisputed supremacy of the verses of His Book over all things that testify to His truth…Through them floweth the river of divine knowledge, and gloweth the fire of His ancient and consummate wisdom. This is the fire which, in one and the same moment, kindleth the flame of love in the breasts of the faithful, and induceth the chill of heedlessness in the heart of the enemy. (Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 205)
 
The Baha’i Faith is false. The only true faith is the Catholic faith.
 
Jen thanks for your post:

i just wish your organization would be honest and admit their message has PARTS that are the same as Christianity, but also teaches things that are DIFFERENT

Baha’is would be the first to recognize this and admit … just as Christianity has somethings in common with Judaism and yet different parts…

We call this distinction the difference between social laws or ordinances and the spiritual oneness of all the religions. The difference is also that the Faith is for today… addressing issues that concern people…such as the unification of the planet for peace and to reduce pollutions, prejudices, etc. 🙂
  • Art
 
Mateo said:
I pray this email finds you all in good health.

I was wondering if anyone has had any encounters with a non-catholic religion called the “Baha’i Faith”? I am currently a student at a university and have encountered and dialogued with many different types of religions. This one in particular has given me a little more of a headache and is tougher to break down due to my lack of biblical and doctrinal knowledge within the Catholic Chruch. They claim to have 6.5 million members and say they have been growing fast. I was just wondering if anyone else has had encounters with this “Baha’i Faith” and if so how has it gone?

Paz de Christo,

Mateo
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Hi, Mateo!
My late younger sister converted to the Baha’i Faith some time in the late 70s. What seemed to be more important to them was a need for a universal brotherhood that would exclude a war of religions.
Could we have brought saint Francis of Assisi in the scene, and that one didn’t need join a “faith” that would be syncretic (sort of melting pot of all the main religions in the world) to practice your faith peacefully and truly be a person of true peace, could we have prevented my sister’s conversion? I don’t know…
 
Jen,

Consider the claimants to be Messiah around the time of Jesus…

List of Jewish Messiah claimants around the time of Jesus…
During the time of Prophet Muhammad:

Musaylimah (Arabic: مسيلمة‎) or Maslamah ibn Ḥabīb (Arabic: مسلمة بن حبيب‎) was one of a series of men who claimed to be a prophet around the same time as Muhammad. He is often viewed as a false prophet by traditional accounts, and frequently referred to by the epithet “the Liar” (Arabic: الكذّاب‎ al-Kaḏḏāb).[1]

Source:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musaylimah

You may not know this Jen but there were those around the time of Baha’u’llah who claimed to be “Him Whom God would make manifest”… but they eventually gave up their claims or eventually were not believed anyway…

Regarding polygamy,

Baha’is are monagamous… What was sanctioned in the Bible or Qur’an no longer applies in our faith.
 
Very good Arthra. How would anyone have known between the variety to choose from back then? Just like now, --by their fruits. You SHALL known them by their fruits, --if you have discernment. Eyes are things that can see. The same with spiritual vision; if there is none, it is not an eye. Every eye that can see will see.

There is no comparing One Who is to us the Lord Bahá’u’lláh with Jim Jones, or David Koresh, who left nothing but contemptible legacies. They were wiped out. Bahá’u’lláh’s dominion is planetary already, and since planetary is the way God wants mankind to go, instead of prejudicial, tribal and fratricidal, and vituperatively partisan --I’d say Bahá’u’lláh is so far ahead of the pack of claimants, well, …keep watching.

The safe way to regard Him is at least to wait and see, like Gamaliel in the Book of Acts.
By opposing Him, one may be opposing God…
 
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