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NewsTheMan
Guest
I have not heard much about this faith within the Church.
Without being too blunt: why are they a false religion?
Without being too blunt: why are they a false religion?
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C
ChristIsTheWay
Guest
There are several reasons. One is because they accept as prophets men like Mohammed and Baha’ullah. The Church does not recognize these men as prophets. They also use scriptures that the Church does not recognize as Divine Writ. A lot of their theology is different from the Church’s. For example, they do not believe in the Trinity and they stress the “oneness of God.” While I have always been fond of the Baha’i and admire their dedication to human unity, I don’t see anything to substantiate their claim that Baha’ullah is the Second Coming or a Messenger of God.
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3DOCTORS
Guest
If I remember correctly - I was doing some reading about the Baha’i because I knew someone in that faith and was curious - don’t they also pitch a form of syncretism, wanting to make kind of a one-size-fits-all religion?
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ChristIsTheWay
Guest
They teach the world’s major religions, like Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc, are all progressive revelations of God. They teach that their religion is the latest revelation.
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Izze25
Guest
Although I’m Catholic, I spent time studying Eastern religions. During this journey (away from the Catholic faith), I sought help from Catholic Answers apologists and received no reply.
Here is what I learned from time spent with members of the Baha’i faith:
They believe that God sent a messenger to each age of civilization and that this man, whose name is Bahaullah (Ba-how-a-la) is the most recent prophet. He lived in Tehran but was exiled in the area that is now Iraq. They believe the human mind is incapable of comprehending all that God would like to say or share, so God sent a messenger during different stages of civilization to explain things that people of that particular age were ready to hear. So, for example, Jesus could have told people a lot more. However, people were not ready at that stage in civilization to hear all he wanted to share. Bahaullah came in the mid-1800s and talked about things like world peace, gender equality and racial equality – things that the people of Jesus’ time period were not ready to hear. A helpful analogy that members of this faith gave me is that it’s kind of like the growth stages of a child. In other words, civilization is the child and God is the parent. A parent does not speak to their child in the same way when the child is 3 versus when the child is 18. When that child is an adult, hopefully there is a mature adult-parent relationship. This is what members of this faith think God is doing with humanity. During earlier stages of civilization, God’s messengers spoke to people in the way that you would speak to a younger person, or at least spoke in a way that people at that stage of civilization could comprehend. They think Jesus came to a civilization that was experiencing a turbulent adolescence, whereas Bahullah’s message exemplifies God’s desire to have a mature, adult relationship with humanity.
One thing that Bahullah preached about was that it’s time for people to unite under one faith – that there is one God and that all religions derive from God. The Baha’i faith seems to combine central common teachings of many faiths, and it does it in a way to show that all of these religions are derived from the same God. For example, Baha’i members have a prayer card that says The Golden Rule on top of it. There are five separate phrases on the card – one from Islam, one from Christianity, one from Judaism, one from Buddhism, and one from the Baha’i faith. Each phrase essentially says the exact same thing (using different language) about loving others as you love yourself.
A few things in particular make their religion different from Catholicism. One is that their religion does not allow the idea that your religion has the “right” answers and others do not. They believe that all faiths are examples of how God has manifested himself to different people in different ways at different times. They have many reasons for viewing other faiths as valid belief systems.
Another aspect of the faith is that they have no priests or clergy. There is no hierarchy in their faith – they believe everyone is equal. There is no clergy because they expect people to take it upon themselves to understand the scripture and writings of Bahullah and make their own reasonable interpretations – no one can tell you what to think or believe. This is why they have study circles or discussion groups on Sunday. People talk with one another about the faith rather than having a priest interpret it for them. Another reason why they have no hierarchy is because they believe that sometimes people use religion for power. There is no confession – one thing that a member of the Baha’i said to me was that in his faith you do not have to demean yourself by confessing your sins to another imperfect human being. They believe that a person’s sins are between that person and God.
Many members of the faith joined it as adults. When I attended a Baha’i Basics class, there was a guy there who had been raised Jewish, another who had been raised Catholic, me (raised Catholic), two people from India, and the married couple who answered the questions were Persian. There were also two other people there. The Jewish guy pointed out that the mixture of people in the room exemplified what the religion is about – where else would you find people of such diverse backgrounds sitting in the same room?
Prejudice is against their religion.
One rule about marriage is that a couple must have consent from each set of parents before they can get married. A rule about divorce is that, although it is allowed, a couple must go through a “year of patience” where the couple would live separately but try to work through their problems.
They emphasize the notion that no one can tell you how to think or interpret scripture for you. They encourage people to ask questions. Conducting your own independent investigation of religion is a central belief that they have. Members of this faith encourage one another to read all sorts of things – Bible, Koran, teachings of Buddha. Except for the fact that they don’t accept Christ as their savior, I think this faith would be a good fit for a person who is very intellectually curious.
And, again, when I was exploring Eastern religions, I emailed the Catholic Answers apologists and they had nothing to say to me with regard to why I should remain Catholic, avoid studying eastern religions, etc. I cannot specifically answer your question about why the Baha’i faith is a false religion, because the Catholic Answers apologists never bothered to answer my questions regarding Eastern religions.
Here is what I learned from time spent with members of the Baha’i faith:
They believe that God sent a messenger to each age of civilization and that this man, whose name is Bahaullah (Ba-how-a-la) is the most recent prophet. He lived in Tehran but was exiled in the area that is now Iraq. They believe the human mind is incapable of comprehending all that God would like to say or share, so God sent a messenger during different stages of civilization to explain things that people of that particular age were ready to hear. So, for example, Jesus could have told people a lot more. However, people were not ready at that stage in civilization to hear all he wanted to share. Bahaullah came in the mid-1800s and talked about things like world peace, gender equality and racial equality – things that the people of Jesus’ time period were not ready to hear. A helpful analogy that members of this faith gave me is that it’s kind of like the growth stages of a child. In other words, civilization is the child and God is the parent. A parent does not speak to their child in the same way when the child is 3 versus when the child is 18. When that child is an adult, hopefully there is a mature adult-parent relationship. This is what members of this faith think God is doing with humanity. During earlier stages of civilization, God’s messengers spoke to people in the way that you would speak to a younger person, or at least spoke in a way that people at that stage of civilization could comprehend. They think Jesus came to a civilization that was experiencing a turbulent adolescence, whereas Bahullah’s message exemplifies God’s desire to have a mature, adult relationship with humanity.
One thing that Bahullah preached about was that it’s time for people to unite under one faith – that there is one God and that all religions derive from God. The Baha’i faith seems to combine central common teachings of many faiths, and it does it in a way to show that all of these religions are derived from the same God. For example, Baha’i members have a prayer card that says The Golden Rule on top of it. There are five separate phrases on the card – one from Islam, one from Christianity, one from Judaism, one from Buddhism, and one from the Baha’i faith. Each phrase essentially says the exact same thing (using different language) about loving others as you love yourself.
A few things in particular make their religion different from Catholicism. One is that their religion does not allow the idea that your religion has the “right” answers and others do not. They believe that all faiths are examples of how God has manifested himself to different people in different ways at different times. They have many reasons for viewing other faiths as valid belief systems.
Another aspect of the faith is that they have no priests or clergy. There is no hierarchy in their faith – they believe everyone is equal. There is no clergy because they expect people to take it upon themselves to understand the scripture and writings of Bahullah and make their own reasonable interpretations – no one can tell you what to think or believe. This is why they have study circles or discussion groups on Sunday. People talk with one another about the faith rather than having a priest interpret it for them. Another reason why they have no hierarchy is because they believe that sometimes people use religion for power. There is no confession – one thing that a member of the Baha’i said to me was that in his faith you do not have to demean yourself by confessing your sins to another imperfect human being. They believe that a person’s sins are between that person and God.
Many members of the faith joined it as adults. When I attended a Baha’i Basics class, there was a guy there who had been raised Jewish, another who had been raised Catholic, me (raised Catholic), two people from India, and the married couple who answered the questions were Persian. There were also two other people there. The Jewish guy pointed out that the mixture of people in the room exemplified what the religion is about – where else would you find people of such diverse backgrounds sitting in the same room?
Prejudice is against their religion.
One rule about marriage is that a couple must have consent from each set of parents before they can get married. A rule about divorce is that, although it is allowed, a couple must go through a “year of patience” where the couple would live separately but try to work through their problems.
They emphasize the notion that no one can tell you how to think or interpret scripture for you. They encourage people to ask questions. Conducting your own independent investigation of religion is a central belief that they have. Members of this faith encourage one another to read all sorts of things – Bible, Koran, teachings of Buddha. Except for the fact that they don’t accept Christ as their savior, I think this faith would be a good fit for a person who is very intellectually curious.
And, again, when I was exploring Eastern religions, I emailed the Catholic Answers apologists and they had nothing to say to me with regard to why I should remain Catholic, avoid studying eastern religions, etc. I cannot specifically answer your question about why the Baha’i faith is a false religion, because the Catholic Answers apologists never bothered to answer my questions regarding Eastern religions.
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ChristIsTheWay
Guest
I was under the impression that there is a hierarchy, of sorts. There are local and national assemblies as well as an international House of Justice that governs the Baha’i Faith. I was also under the impression you could get yourself “shunned.” I’ve read about liberal Baha’i complaints about the religion being too conservative and too doctrinal. A group of them formed a Baha’i group within the Unitarian Universalist Association, if I am not mistaken. It sounds to me like there is a definite limit to what they would consider a reasonable interpretation of their religion.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Not for nothing but I believe we caught the drift the first time you mentioned Catholic Answers apologists not reply Izze25. The second and third mention is relating then to your own unresolved feelings?
God Bless, Gary
God Bless, Gary
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WTSherman
Guest
Catholic faith does not go out of its way to offend other religions. This is obviously an attempt to stir up contempt from us when we have none.
I admire all pious people, including Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and those of the many other eastern faiths.
I admire all pious people, including Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and those of the many other eastern faiths.
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agent_grey
Guest
They do not believe Bahaullah is a prophet. They believe that he is a correct interpreter of the prophets.
For them Mohamed is the last prophet.
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Izze25
Guest
If you have nothing “on topic” topic say, then I am not sure why you posted. I did not bring it up three times; I brought it up twice. In light of the fact that I have several grievances with the apologists, I was being extremely tactful in my post. I have emailed the forum countess times regarding answers given by Michelle Arnold, which seem misleading. I never receive replies. Last summer, a thread was started on a Facebook discussion forum about how Ms. Arnold claimed that contraception IS acceptable in certain circumstances. Several of us from the Facebook discussion group sent emails to Catholic Answers. NONE of us received a response. One person from the Facebook group indicated that he had problems with her in the past. I could go on and on with countless examples about lack of professionalism. You don’t know me, so don’t give me this baloney about my “unresolved feelings.”
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dlherrmann
Guest
A good explanation of the Baha’i Faith can be found in Wikipedia.
Randomly responding to previous posts:
The word “prophet” can be applied to Baha’u’llah, but more usually the term “Prophet-Founder” is used or Messenger or Manifestation. The same terms apply to Christ, Moses, Abraham, Buddah, Zoroaster, Muhammad and Khrishna. There is no definitive list because the stream of Divine Messengers goes back to and includes Adam.
The different Manifestations (those who manifest the Will of God to humanity) are like teachers in different grades, first, second, third, etc. Each Message is based on the one before to the degree possible. The spiritual teachings of the religions share similarities becuase there is only one Creator, but human understanding differs. The social teachings are the most different because human society is constantly evolving and maturing. We now have reached the point where we can wipe out all life on earth. Jesus could not address that problem. Baha’u’llah did. The same with environmental contamination, space travel, etc.
Recognizing that all the Divine Manifestations are inspired by the same Divine Creator will itself go a long ways to bringing peace and understanding to the planet.
Within the Baha’i community there is an administrative structure, outlined by Baha’u’llah, consisting of local, national and an international council. They merely guide the affairs of the local, national and international levels of the Baha’i community. There are no individuals with power or authority over any other individual.
Yes, some individuals have left the Baha’i community because of their ego and/or fantasies. They are not “shunned,” they are simply not Baha’is. A very, very few individuals have affirmed that they would support the Baha’i Faith then, began tried to create a following. Baha’i scripture does not allow for such action. If these individuals, when advised that their actions are not in accord with scripture, persist in attempting to create a division, they are removed from membership. To prevent this spiritual distortion other Baha’is are advised to have no contact with them. It happens rarely.
On the other hand, how often are Catholics excommunicated? There are large groups in Kansas and Canada for simply wanting to retain the Latin mass?
And, does anyone remember the crusades? Catholics against Muslims, killing Christians and Jews along the way. Catholics against Cathars. And the Inquisition - against Jews who had no choice in “converting” and weren’t sincere enough?
Baha’u’llah fulfilled too many biblical prophacies to mention here.
Randomly responding to previous posts:
The word “prophet” can be applied to Baha’u’llah, but more usually the term “Prophet-Founder” is used or Messenger or Manifestation. The same terms apply to Christ, Moses, Abraham, Buddah, Zoroaster, Muhammad and Khrishna. There is no definitive list because the stream of Divine Messengers goes back to and includes Adam.
The different Manifestations (those who manifest the Will of God to humanity) are like teachers in different grades, first, second, third, etc. Each Message is based on the one before to the degree possible. The spiritual teachings of the religions share similarities becuase there is only one Creator, but human understanding differs. The social teachings are the most different because human society is constantly evolving and maturing. We now have reached the point where we can wipe out all life on earth. Jesus could not address that problem. Baha’u’llah did. The same with environmental contamination, space travel, etc.
Recognizing that all the Divine Manifestations are inspired by the same Divine Creator will itself go a long ways to bringing peace and understanding to the planet.
Within the Baha’i community there is an administrative structure, outlined by Baha’u’llah, consisting of local, national and an international council. They merely guide the affairs of the local, national and international levels of the Baha’i community. There are no individuals with power or authority over any other individual.
Yes, some individuals have left the Baha’i community because of their ego and/or fantasies. They are not “shunned,” they are simply not Baha’is. A very, very few individuals have affirmed that they would support the Baha’i Faith then, began tried to create a following. Baha’i scripture does not allow for such action. If these individuals, when advised that their actions are not in accord with scripture, persist in attempting to create a division, they are removed from membership. To prevent this spiritual distortion other Baha’is are advised to have no contact with them. It happens rarely.
On the other hand, how often are Catholics excommunicated? There are large groups in Kansas and Canada for simply wanting to retain the Latin mass?
And, does anyone remember the crusades? Catholics against Muslims, killing Christians and Jews along the way. Catholics against Cathars. And the Inquisition - against Jews who had no choice in “converting” and weren’t sincere enough?
Baha’u’llah fulfilled too many biblical prophacies to mention here.
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ChristIsTheWay
Guest
I found this article on what appears to be an official Baha’i website: reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-34.html
They don’t appear to be terribly fond of the papacy.
They don’t appear to be terribly fond of the papacy.
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ChristIsTheWay
Guest
Looking over some of the other Christianity articles posted on that website, it looks almost as if it were written by a liberal Protestant, especially as regards the Resurrection and the Holy Eucharist.
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Sen_McGlinn
Guest
It’s because Bahais do recognise the primacy of Peter in church life, and therefore the papacy as such, that Abdu’l-Baha and Bahais are critical of many of the Popes: the things they have done were not only private sins, they fell short of the exceptional standards that must be upheld by such an exceptional office.
In addition to the section in Some Answered Questions that you have linked to, Abdu’l-Baha wrote:
and
Baha’u’llah and Abdu’l-Baha were also critical of the Islamic and Jewish religious leaderships, not because religious learning and leadership is a bad thing, but because it requires the highest standards: those who meet these standards, they rightly praise, while the religious leaders who fall short are condemned, for they keep not only themselves but also others from realising the truths of religion; they are condemned most especially where they provoke religious fanaticism or seize temporal power. In the section you have linked to, Abdu’l-Baha says:
Bear in mind that these words were spoken about 1905: I would like to think that Abdu’l-Baha would have approved of some of the more recent Popes
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Mickey
Guest
Syncretism.
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puzzleannie
Guest
of course not, they are not within the church so why should you hear about them? did you do a search to find out their history (brief) and beliefs?
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arthra
Guest
Baha’is elect Local, National Spiritual Assemblies annually and every five years the Universal House of Justice which is on Mount Carmel in Haifa, Israel… There are no priests or Mullahs in the Baha’i Faith. There’s no formal connection of Baha’is with the Unitarian- Universalist Association. Only Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi were the recognized Interpreters of the Baha’i Writings… Believers are free to offer their own opinions but someone who claims authority for themselves and seeks a following could be designated as a Covenant Breaker…
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arthra
Guest
What we Baha’is say is that there is only one religion of God and that all the major religions have a common Divine Source. The Baha’i Writings are regarded as revealed by the Bab (1844- 1850) the Predecessor of Baha’u’llah ; Baha’u’llah (1853 - 1892) and Abdul-Baha (1892-1921) His eldest Son the Interpreter of the Writings in that order.
Baha’is have their own places of pilgrimage … Their own manner of worship. The Baha’i Writings are themselves unique and related to historical events and situations…so the claim of “syncretism” and “one size fits all religion” I think is not accurate.
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arthra
Guest
The Bab and Baha’u’llah are accepted by us as Universal Prophets …
“The Manifestations of universal Prophethood Who appeared independently are, for example, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh.”
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 164
Just as we would say Jesus correctly interpreted the Torah so what Baha’u’llah revealed about past prophets would be accepted by us. Prophet Muhammad would be accepted as the “Seal” of the prophets in that He was an authentic seal of the previous Messengers but not the last prophet.
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Vouthon
Guest
Well, without being too blunt, I have never heard the Vatican ever refer to the Baha’i Faith or indeed any other faith for that matter as a “false religion”
From Vatican II document “Nostra Aetate”:
"…**The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.
The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.
The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems…"**
The official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church is that there is truth in all religions, and that Catholics should look for and respect the “ray of light” that we find in other religions, so as to promote interfaith harmony and world peace.
We do not regard other religions as false, we simply diverge with them on certain principles and beliefs. We respect their differences and hope that they will likewise respect ours, but no Pope of the last two centuries has ever to my mind called another religion false.
As Pope John Paul II said to the Taize community back in the 80s, “By desiring to be yourselves a ‘parable of community,’ you will help all whom you meet to be faithful to their denominational ties, the fruit of their education and their choice in conscience …”
It is not the Catholic way to demean other religions which differ from our own. Rather we strive to promote what is good, holy and God-inspired amongst children of other faiths.
It is the Catholic way to uphold the Truth of Christ and his resurrection, but not to derogate aught from the members of any religion.
As Blessed Mother Theresa said: “There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers…I believe that God has created each soul, that that soul belongs to God, and that each soul has to find God in its own lifetime and enter into his life. That is what is important. All of us need to seek God and find Him…Religion is not something that you and I can dictate. Religion is the worship of God, and therefore it is a matter of conscience. Each one of us must decide how we are going to worship. In my case, the religion that I live and practice is Roman Catholicism. It is my life, my joy, and the greatest proof of God’s love for me. I cannot force anyone to accept my religion—just as no man, no law, and no government can legally demand that anyone reject a religion that promises them peace, joy, and love. I love all religions… If people become better Hindus, better Muslims, better Buddhists by our acts of love, then there is something else growing there. They come closer to God…Our purpose is to take God and His love to the poorest of the poor, irrespective of their ethnic origin or the faith they profess. Our discernment of aid is not the belief but the necessity. In our work we bear witness to the love of God’s presence and if Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists or agnostics become for this reason better men—simply better—we will be satisfied”
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