The banning of the hijab in France and other countries.

[twiztedseraph]

Peace and God’s mercy brothers.

I wanted to ask your opinions on the banning of the woman’s headscarf in France and other countries. Would girls that complied be guilty of sin?

Chookrom…(if thats how you spell it)

 

[meedo]

Well its a tough question to answer really . I mean on one hand you cant say that its a sin because its imposed on them by force or else they would get education and on the other hand Hijab is not actually a religious symbol but a religious duty .

I guess its a sin for people who can join a private school where its allowed , and its a less sin for people who just cant afford to go to a private school.

Education is very important in Islam and i guess theh frnch government lost alot of support and respect in the Islamic world because of this. I mean that is outright discrimination and it doesnt have to do with terrorism or anything . Its just discrimination . How does a headscarf infringe on the secular law? Any body should be allowed to dress however they please as long as they are not indecent to the general public.

Personally i think this waqs a blow to integration. Instead of getting people to know each other . Theya re either forcing muslim girls to stay at home without education or having private schools for muslims only . Really Totally asking for trouble!!!

If you excuse me i will make a Poll regarding teh subject .
Peace

 

[meedo]

Its Shokran lol. Its an Egyptian thank you lol.

 

[twiztedseraph]

meedo:

Well its a tough question to answer really . I mean on one hand you cant say that its a sin because its imposed on them by force or else they would get education and on the other hand Hijab is not actually a religious symbol but a religious duty .

I guess its a sin for people who can join a private school where its allowed , and its a less sin for people who just cant afford to go to a private school.

Education is very important in Islam and i guess theh frnch government lost alot of support and respect in the Islamic world because of this. I mean that is outright discrimination and it doesnt have to do with terrorism or anything . Its just discrimination . How does a headscarf infringe on the secular law? Any body should be allowed to dress however they please as long as they are not indecent to the general public.

Personally i think this waqs a blow to integration. Instead of getting people to know each other . Theya re either forcing muslim girls to stay at home without education or having private schools for muslims only . Really Totally asking for trouble!!!

If you excuse me i will make a Poll regarding teh subject .
Peace

Shookron About integration, some friends tell me muslims in Australia have denied they will ever integrate…Any thoughts friend meedo?
Peace and His mercy.

 

[meedo]

well it depends on your concept of integration. I mean if you expect muslims to drink alcohol and hang out at bars , dont do their obligatory prayers or for girls to drop their headscarves then thats a bit tough. But other than that i dont see any reason not to be a normal part of teh society. I mean i live in Egypt and its a normal place like europe. I dont have any problems integrating with others and adding to the welfare of teh society. It all depends on how do u define integration.
Peace

 

[rayne89]

I think it is wrong. I saw a special on TV where it a very important part of female modesty to them.

Did they also ban the jewish yarmulke by the way?

 

[meedo]

they banned it yes. But the difference is that for Muslims girls it is not a symbol , its a mabdatory modesty garment. If you dont wear it in normal cases that would be a sin! France is practically making them choose between their faith and education. which is somthing i find very low and mean .

 

[rayne89]

meedo:

they banned it yes. But the difference is that for Muslims girls it is not a symbol , its a mabdatory modesty garment. If you dont wear it in normal cases that would be a sin! France is practically making them choose between their faith and education. which is somthing i find very low and mean .

It’s Europe’s general secular mindset that see no importance in these things.

Very sad.

 

[meedo]

I dont think they were secular about it to tell the truth. I guess its a sort of isnecurity on their part . I mean they have 10% of the Population muslim and they wanna force those muslims down . I mean what did a girl who is wearing a headscarf harm teh secularity of teh state?!!! Yes if she is claiming to want more rights to Islam than any other religion then yes she is wrong but this isnt the case.

The state didnt buy her headscarf , she bought it , the state didnt built her a Masjid inside teh school or somthing . All a girl in france asks is to be let free to educate herself.

Teh funny thing is that they call islam opressor of women , now Muslims fought like hell for the girl with headscarves to be included but they were kicked out of schools . Its insecurity about their identity not that the headscarf did anything to them.

Here in Egypt i wouldnt even look twice if a lady with a big cross on her chest is working in a government agency . you can go into a public school and carry the heaviest criss you can carry on yr neck and its no problem.

I think Europe shoudl start thinking of the immigfrant population as equal humans and try to be mroe inclusive of them and accepting of their dark color and different faith. The problem is taht the europeans think that they are great just because they let thos peoplein their countries. But they arte entitled to treat them like garbage. That is why peopel in europe live in ghettos and in teh US they dont . I mean people must meet half ways . I mean Europe must give Equal oppertunity and mut be acceoptive and immigrants must grab the cahnces and be an adding value to teh society just as much as the original europeans.

Peace

 

[rayne89]

meedo:

I dont think they were secular about it to tell the truth. I guess its a sort of isnecurity on their part . I mean they have 10% of the Population muslim and they wanna force those muslims down . I mean what did a girl who is wearing a headscarf harm teh secularity of teh state?!!! Yes if she is claiming to want more rights to Islam than any other religion then yes she is wrong but this isnt the case.

The state didnt buy her headscarf , she bought it , the state didnt built her a Masjid inside teh school or somthing . All a girl in france asks is to be let free to educate herself.

Teh funny thing is that they call islam opressor of women , now Muslims fought like hell for the girl with headscarves to be included but they were kicked out of schools . Its insecurity about their identity not that the headscarf did anything to them.

Here in Egypt i wouldnt even look twice if a lady with a big cross on her chest is working in a government agency . you can go into a public school and carry the heaviest criss you can carry on yr neck and its no problem.

I think Europe shoudl start thinking of the immigfrant population as equal humans and try to be mroe inclusive of them and accepting of their dark color and different faith. The problem is taht the europeans think that they are great just because they let thos peoplein their countries. But they arte entitled to treat them like garbage. That is why peopel in europe live in ghettos and in teh US they dont . I mean people must meet half ways . I mean Europe must give Equal oppertunity and mut be acceoptive and immigrants must grab the cahnces and be an adding value to teh society just as much as the original europeans.

Peace

What you’re saying makes a lot of sense.

I love my country but there are some (not the majority-at least not as far as my experience) but some in this country that feel there are “too many foreigners let into this country” as well. My Italian mom is one. She says it all the time. I say mom -you were born in Italy, you were one of those foreigners. The foreigners she’s speaking of I believe are mexicans and middle eastern though -so maybe it’s till that European pride kicking in.

I hate to burst your bubble on one point though. There are plenty of people in the US that live in ghettos. I think just about every major city in the US has them.

 

[meedo]

Personally if i go abroad i wouldnt want to live in a ghetto. It relly depends on how youa re accepted by the mainstream though. I think its much better in the US than Europe though.

 

[twiztedseraph]

meedo:

well it depends on your concept of integration. I mean if you expect muslims to drink alcohol and hang out at bars , dont do their obligatory prayers or for girls to drop their headscarves then thats a bit tough. But other than that i dont see any reason not to be a normal part of teh society. I mean i live in Egypt and its a normal place like europe. I dont have any problems integrating with others and adding to the welfare of teh society. It all depends on how do u define integration.
Peace

Not alcohol and stuff, perhaps go to a soccer/football match with the rest of the guys, wear national colours etc. But some muslims seem to have a disdain for the very countries to which they chose to migrate. I dunno, my first friend was a muslim, he and I would play with action figures and video games when I was four. There seemed to be a lot of inegration going on there.

 

[twiztedseraph]

meedo:

I dont think they were secular about it to tell the truth. I guess its a sort of isnecurity on their part . I mean they have 10% of the Population muslim and they wanna force those muslims down . I mean what did a girl who is wearing a headscarf harm teh secularity of teh state?!!! Yes if she is claiming to want more rights to Islam than any other religion then yes she is wrong but this isnt the case.

The state didnt buy her headscarf , she bought it , the state didnt built her a Masjid inside teh school or somthing . All a girl in france asks is to be let free to educate herself.

Teh funny thing is that they call islam opressor of women , now Muslims fought like hell for the girl with headscarves to be included but they were kicked out of schools . Its insecurity about their identity not that the headscarf did anything to them.

Here in Egypt i wouldnt even look twice if a lady with a big cross on her chest is working in a government agency . you can go into a public school and carry the heaviest criss you can carry on yr neck and its no problem.

I think Europe shoudl start thinking of the immigfrant population as equal humans and try to be mroe inclusive of them and accepting of their dark color and different faith. The problem is taht the europeans think that they are great just because they let thos peoplein their countries. But they arte entitled to treat them like garbage. That is why peopel in europe live in ghettos and in teh US they dont . I mean people must meet half ways . I mean Europe must give Equal oppertunity and mut be acceoptive and immigrants must grab the cahnces and be an adding value to teh society just as much as the original europeans.

Peace

How bout those hard-core muslim countries where your not even allowed to have a bible or rosary?

 

[meedo]

““Not alcohol and stuff, perhaps go to a soccer/football match with the rest of the guys, wear national colours etc. But some muslims seem to have a disdain for the very countries to which they chose to migrate. I dunno, my first friend was a muslim, he and I would play with action figures and video games when I was four. There seemed to be a lot of inegration going on there””"

Whats the problem with all above? i went to sweden last year and wore the swedish flag T shirt when there was the Olympics!! i was supporting sweden and cheering. Muslims dont have disdain for the countries they are living in . They might have disdain for the lack of morality and nudity and racism and stuff. But as a muslim who have traveled abroad many times i tell you i never had any disdain for teh country itself or the good values that it stands for. many Egyptians have disdain for the way their country is run . That doesnt mean they are unpatriotic!! Muslims dont have disdain for countries they have desdain for certain bad habits . I dont think there is a problem in that . I know many americans who left america because they thought its a place where they can loose their kids to violence and street gands and drugs and teen pregnancies and stuff. These peopel dont disdain america they just dont like any of this stuff , when they ahd the chance they left , now some muslims need to be In Europe to make money and to make ends meet .

“”“How bout those hard-core muslim countries where your not even allowed to have a bible or rosary?”"

You are talking about one country which is saudi and Muslims have explained over and over that Saudi is a special case for muslims. Its like the vatican for catholics . Besides bibles are every where over the net . Just print one and cover it . I dont think the rosary they bad you fronm having it inside . Saudi already declares that its a Muslim citizen country now you can do that with whataver country you guys which we arent stopping you . Just when you want to go to saudi you abide by the rules . There is nothing to see in saudi any way , ts a piece of desert . Just come to any other muslim country and you will ahve the bibles and rosaries that you want .

Peace

 

[Petergee]

"

“”“How bout those hard-core muslim countries where your not even allowed to have a bible or rosary?”"

You are talking about one country which is saudi and Muslims have explained over and over that Saudi is a special case for muslims. Its like the vatican for catholics .

Sorry, I can’t see any similarity.

Vatican is the size of a few football fields, population of a few hundred, no natural resources, freedom of religion, people are free to have the Koran or any Muslim symbol and wear hijabs, in fact women will be kicked out if not dressed modestly.

Saudi Arabia, 12th largest country in the world, population 25 million, world’s biggest oil exporter and one of the world’s richest counties, has millions immigrant workers, many of them Christian and Hindu, plus visiting businessmen (business women don’t visit as the Saudis refuse to deal with them), but all religions except Islam totally banned.

Besides bibles are every where over the net . Just print one and cover it .

You have actually seen a Bible? It’s many times longer than the Koran. It would bve tens of thousands of pages from a computer printer even using tiny font.

There is nothing to see in saudi any way , ts a piece of desert . Just come to any other muslim country and you will ahve the bibles and rosaries that you want .

As I said many foreigners go there to work. And other Muslim countries are very far from freedom of religion. eg the one Christian bookshop in a large Pakistani city was trashed and its staff assaulted by Muslims - the government made no attempt to catch the criminals and made the bookshop manager promise (I hope it was a lie) to refuse to sell any book or video to any Muslim who asked to buy them.

And I see nobody has mentioned that Turkey (overwhelmingly Muslim) has banned headscarves for the last 80 years. If you condemn France for banning them you should also condemn Turkey.

Personally I have no problem with anyone wanting to cover certain parts of their bodies, except for the face - this is concealing your identity and you can’t complain if people suspect you are up to mischief - and provided there is no doubt that a woman has made her own decision to wear the garment, not had it forced on her by her male relatives. And of course if you go to school or do certain jobs or activities, you should wear the same clothes everyone else there wears, not demand unreasonable exceptions.

 

[twiztedseraph]

"“Not alcohol and stuff, perhaps go to a soccer/football match with the rest of the guys, wear national colours etc. But some muslims seem to have a disdain for the very countries to which they chose to migrate. I dunno, my first friend was a muslim, he and I would play with action figures and video games when I was four. There seemed to be a lot of inegration going on there”""

Whats the problem with all above? i went to sweden last year and wore the swedish flag T shirt when there was the Olympics!! i was supporting sweden and cheering. Muslims dont have disdain for the countries they are living in . They might have disdain for the lack of morality and nudity and racism and stuff. But as a muslim who have traveled abroad many times i tell you i never had any disdain for teh country itself or the good values that it stands for. many Egyptians have disdain for the way their country is run . That doesnt mean they are unpatriotic!! Muslims dont have disdain for countries they have desdain for certain bad habits . I dont think there is a problem in that . I know many americans who left america because they thought its a place where they can loose their kids to violence and street gands and drugs and teen pregnancies and stuff. These peopel dont disdain america they just dont like any of this stuff , when they ahd the chance they left , now some muslims need to be In Europe to make money and to make ends meet .

“”“How bout those hard-core muslim countries where your not even allowed to have a bible or rosary?”"

You are talking about one country which is saudi and Muslims have explained over and over that Saudi is a special case for muslims. Its like the vatican for catholics . Besides bibles are every where over the net . Just print one and cover it . I dont think the rosary they bad you fronm having it inside . Saudi already declares that its a Muslim citizen country now you can do that with whataver country you guys which we arent stopping you . Just when you want to go to saudi you abide by the rules . There is nothing to see in saudi any way , ts a piece of desert . Just come to any other muslim country and you will ahve the bibles and rosaries that you want .

Peace

Funny how in the airport in Rome, the chief city of Catholicism, there is a muslim chapel to pray. We do not stop muslims from entering our places of worship, indeed even many schools accept muslim girls wearing the hijab. Yet in Saudi an extremely large country Catholics who choose and are sometimes forced byt circumstances to work there do not have ay type of dignity. It surprises me that Muhuammad tolerated the “people of the book” and allowed them to practise their religion and participate in government yet these muslim countries do not.

 

[meedo]

Yes i understand what you mean . But you have to understand that every religion has his own Beliefs and it is of Islams beliefs that The part of country which is Saudi arabia now HAS to be Purly islamic.

Now Muslims didnt force or even have any opinion about Italy bieng catholic or protestant or anything and if you want to Ban Muslims fgrom Italy then please do . It depends on the contract in which you abide by while entering the country and Saudi doesnt hide anything . If they need the Jobs then there are alot of other places even better than saudi financially like other gulf states.

If italyu decides from now on that it is not gonna accept any Muslim having the Quran with him while entering then this is its own rules and muslims have to abide by it .

Saudi isnt a secular country and it declares that publicly .

I mean no offence or disrespect , i wish you all the faith and worship . Just please understand that saudi is for muslims a special case.

Anfd yes there are Christian PMs and Ministers in my country which is Egypt.

Peace