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AmericanMuslim
Guest
What do Baptists believe happens to a baby that is neither baptized nor has “accepted Jesus as his personal savior”? Do they go to heaven?
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TimothyH
Guest
Please allow Catholics to express what the Catholic Church teaches, thank you.
The Catholic Church teaches that Baptism is not just an initiation into the Church or into the family of God. The Catholic Church believes, consistent with scripture, that Baptism removes sin.
***That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. *(1 Corinthains 6:11)
-Tim-
The Catholic Church teaches that Baptism is not just an initiation into the Church or into the family of God. The Catholic Church believes, consistent with scripture, that Baptism removes sin.
***That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. *(1 Corinthains 6:11)
-Tim-
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Loboto-Me
Guest
My goodness! I was just reading my bible when I opened to the following verse, and then here I came into this thread. Do you think maybe the Holy Spirit had something to do with it??
Luke18:15-17
People were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them, and when the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. Jesus, hoever, called the children to himself and said, “Let the children come to me and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it.”
In the this verse, people were BRINGING INFANTS, people who cannot make a conscious choice, to be touched by Jesus. Jesus didn’t tell the mothers to wait until their babies could repent of their own free will before he’d touch them.
Do you think that perhaps with the misunderstanding of who can and cannot be baptised that some non-catholics are preventing their children from coming to Jesus? Jesus says do NOT prevent them…
Now remember also… that people were bringing WHOLE households to be baptised, it seems to me that considering there wasn’t too much contraception in those days, there would be infants included in the household.
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drywall
Guest
Babies that die go to heaven. In the Old Testament King David know that he would see his baby boy that died in heaven when he died.
drywall
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plaintruth
Guest
the highlight of LK 18:15-17 was not the babies. it is v17
Luk 18:17 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it."
it is the childlikeness that is of paramount importance, and also the words ‘whoever does not receive’ relates to a person making a choice.
Luk 18:17 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it."
it is the childlikeness that is of paramount importance, and also the words ‘whoever does not receive’ relates to a person making a choice.
My goodness! I was just reading my bible when I opened to the following verse, and then here I came into this thread. Do you think maybe the Holy Spirit had something to do with it??
Luke18:15-17
People were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them, and when the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. Jesus, hoever, called the children to himself and said, “Let the children come to me and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it.”
In the this verse, people were BRINGING INFANTS, people who cannot make a conscious choice, to be touched by Jesus. Jesus didn’t tell the mothers to wait until their babies could repent of their own free will before he’d touch them.
Do you think that perhaps with the misunderstanding of who can and cannot be baptised that some non-catholics are preventing their children from coming to Jesus? Jesus says do NOT prevent them…
Now remember also… that people were bringing WHOLE households to be baptised, it seems to me that considering there wasn’t too much contraception in those days, there would be infants included in the household.
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Loboto-Me
Guest
Hmmm so I guess Jesus should have told them that the kids aren’t ready to receive him then and turn away those moms bringing their infants right? So Jesus would have said “Ah, look at those little chidren, ONE day these children can come into my kingdom when they can receive me… in the meantime, these children can’t receive the kingdom. But verily you guys should be like these children (who can’t receive me) in order to receive the kingdom”
Sounds like alot of runaround dontcha think? We should be like children (which Jesus said not to PREVENT from coming to Him) yet we’re to be like these infants who can’t come to Him??
The rest of the verse isn’t paramount? Jesus saying not to prevent the babies from coming to Him? Don’t start picking and choosing parts of passages, that’s how you go astray.
So how would you explain the whole households getting baptised?
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drywall
Guest
There comes a time in a child life when they able to understand the Gospel message. This is why Baptist churches have so many programs for children, so that they are constantly exposed to the gospel. When God is ready for that child to be born again it will be born againMy goodness! I was just reading my bible when I opened to the following verse, and then here I came into this thread. Do you think maybe the Holy Spirit had something to do with it??
Luke18:15-17
People were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them, and when the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. Jesus, hoever, called the children to himself and said, “Let the children come to me and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it.”
In the this verse, people were BRINGING INFANTS, people who cannot make a conscious choice, to be touched by Jesus. Jesus didn’t tell the mothers to wait until their babies could repent of their own free will before he’d touch them.
Do you think that perhaps with the misunderstanding of who can and cannot be baptised that some non-catholics are preventing their children from coming to Jesus? Jesus says do NOT prevent them…
Children that are to young to understand what the gospel is about go to heaven, simple as that.
drywall
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Loboto-Me
Guest
So why do you think Jesus would want these infants, who can’t come to him on thier own, but the parents were bringing them to Jesus told the disciples to let them come to Him? Compare what Jesus does compared to the disciples… compare what the baptists do compared to Catholics and some non-catholics who know that their babies need baptism.
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drywall
Guest
Show me there in scripture where it says that these childern were saved or born again because their parents brought them to Jesus
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Loboto-Me
Guest
I don’t need to show you in the bible where it says this, because there is no specific text in the bible to show it, There’s also no specific text in the bible that mentions the Holy Trinity, there’s no specific text in the bible that says we must rely on the Bible only, yet you ask me to prove it to you with a verse of the Bible?
I can show you in the bible where Jesus says not to prevent the children from coming to Him, I can also show you in the bible where it says that whole households were baptised,
You need to look at the whole context of what is being said throughout, not a little piece here and a little piece there… and that’s the reason I don’t need ONE verse to prove my point, infant baptism is implicated in many areas of the bible.
How is it that the bible says that faith in Christ is needed to be saved yet you just said in an earlier post that babies are saved. The bible doesn’t say that faith in Christ is needed except in the case of babies. Show me that in the bible please.
In Colossians 2:11-12 “In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.”
Now, think clearly on what the Jews did in circumcision… they circumcised 8 day old infants.
I can show you in the bible where Jesus says not to prevent the children from coming to Him, I can also show you in the bible where it says that whole households were baptised,
You need to look at the whole context of what is being said throughout, not a little piece here and a little piece there… and that’s the reason I don’t need ONE verse to prove my point, infant baptism is implicated in many areas of the bible.
How is it that the bible says that faith in Christ is needed to be saved yet you just said in an earlier post that babies are saved. The bible doesn’t say that faith in Christ is needed except in the case of babies. Show me that in the bible please.
In Colossians 2:11-12 “In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.”
Now, think clearly on what the Jews did in circumcision… they circumcised 8 day old infants.
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campeador
Guest
Show me there in scripture where it says that these children should not be baptized. Doesn’t it say rather that* every one of us *should be baptized?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
Drywall wrote:
Jim Dandy
We will show you in scripture where it says children were born again because their parents brought them to Jesus (or had a priest baptise them, which is same thing) as soon as you show us in scripture where it says that everything man needs to know about God and his plan for our salvation is contained in the Bible (even your incomplete version). Now that’s a safe statement! Protestants have been shouting “Where is that in the Bible?” for 494 years, when their foundational belief that the Bible is the only rule of faith is nowhere to be found in the Bible.
Let’s finish what Peter said: v. 39 - For the promise is to you and your children and to all that are far off [including their children], every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.
Jim Dandy
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zz912
Guest
Show me where in the Bible that everyone (or even anyone) in the many households that were baptized proclaimed faith in Jesus. I can give you a couple of examples of the household being baptized based on the faith of the head of the household.
Your theology is contradictory to the Bible.
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Cat_Herder
Guest
What about those who are unable to do so? If you say salvation is by faith ALONE that means faith is the only thing that saves. Faith alone means: No faith = hell. There is no way around this problem as I’ll explain after the break.
Uh… what is this then?
[BIBLEDRB]Luke 18:14-16[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Mark 10:13-16[/BIBLEDRB]
First of all… have you ever heard of Adam and Eve?
[BIBLEDRB]Romans 5:12[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Psalm 50:7[/BIBLEDRB]
(this is Psalm 51 in your Bible)
Everyone is born into sin unless God intervenes by a special grace. Such preservation happens only for abortion victims, miscarriages and other prenatal deaths (1 Tim 2:3-4), and for the Blessed Virgin Mary (Genesis 3:15). Everyone else is a sinner regardless of whether or not they have committed any actual sin. That includes infants and children, which is one reason why you can’t explain their situation away.
Here’s another problem: Now if you are saying that if a child dies before they “come of age” they’re saved, and if they die after they “come of age” they go to hell unless they have first chosen Christ, then you have a change of status from “saved” to “not saved” at some time during their life. Meanwhile, you shout from the rooftops that once someone is saved they are always saved regardless of future sins. That is a total and complete contradiction and you need to explain yourself please.
Second of all: you assert that infant baptism is a meaningless ritual. Well, is marriage a meaningless ritual? Of course not. Then how can you say that baptism is a meaningless ritual? How do you know which rituals have meaning and which do not? Marriage changes the state of people before God. Why do you think that baptism does not, especially when Jesus said:
[BIBLEDRB]Mark 16:16[/BIBLEDRB]
Of course, if you really believe in him then you’re going to DO what He commanded.
[BIBLEDRB]Acts 2:38[/BIBLEDRB]
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plaintruth
Guest
‘salvation by faith’ - where did you come from?
i thought this discussion was about ‘the baptist church and its policy on baptism’. perhaps you are in the wrong thread.
i thought this discussion was about ‘the baptist church and its policy on baptism’. perhaps you are in the wrong thread.
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plaintruth
Guest
i dont have issues with infant baptism. if you prefer children or babies be baptized that’s fine.
most of the baptists who were formerly catholics obviously were baptized during infancy.
there is a difference though, the first baptism was without consent, the second a willful consent.
and this is the Baptist’s policy on baptism, that if you undergo baptism - you must have a ‘personal’ commitment to follow christ. like making a sacred oath similar to marriage - you say ‘i will’ to follow christ.
most of the baptists who were formerly catholics obviously were baptized during infancy.
there is a difference though, the first baptism was without consent, the second a willful consent.
and this is the Baptist’s policy on baptism, that if you undergo baptism - you must have a ‘personal’ commitment to follow christ. like making a sacred oath similar to marriage - you say ‘i will’ to follow christ.
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: With your tradition infants cannot be saved as they cannot first believe?
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babylonsfalling
Guest
Most people don’t need it explained that ones deals differently with an adult than an infant.
An adult should believe before being baptized.
That doesn’t mean parents can’t have infants baptized.
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: Where is that in the Bible? Here you admit a child has not been BORN AGAIN. Our Lord tells us in [Jn3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, **EXCEPT a man be BORN AGAIN, he CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.] In verse 4 Nicodemus asked HOW
Jn3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT a man be BORN OF water AND of the Spirit, HE CANNOT ENTER into THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
JL: So children are BORN SAVED, therefore have no NEED OF CHRIST. What then did Christ mean by [Jn3:6 That which is BORN OF FLESH IS FLESH; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.] Aren’t we ALL naturally BORN OF FLESH? Are you telling us one is born of the Spirit? Only those baptized are BORN AGAIN by water AND of the Spirit.
By the way if children are BORN SAVED wouldn’t that contradict OSAS. If one is saved from birth and can’t lose their salvation they have no need to repent, be baptized FOR REMISSION OF SINS, RECEIVE the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT.
What is the purpose of BEING BORN AGAIN if you are in the kingdom already and CAN’T LOSE YOU SALVATION? Your tradition not only contradicts scripture it contradcit’s your own teaching of OSAS. It would also contradict the teaching ALL HAVE SINNED.
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: Do children who are UNCLEAN, auto, go to heaven also?
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