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corsair
Guest
Judging from the above post, I think you did, OraLabora.
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adrift
Guest
You called what he wrote as diatribe. I would call that uncharitable. I think you are the one that should be careful of the sin of pride. To point out a fact should not have elicited the attack that he received. I guess I am sorry is not in your vocabulary:confused
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wisdomseeker
Guest
Thank you. I believe in all of it. Anyone can see that is really what is going on here. JP II is a great example of this. the betrayals against him and disobedience towards him was more than he could take. he suffered much.
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TrueLight
Guest
What do you mean?
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wisdomseeker
Guest
What I mean is that we can expect betrayals in the Church. From the beggining that is what has always happened. if one can betray God then, why not today? have we all become saints even more so than God?
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TrueLight
Guest
Iām asking specifically about what you said about Blessed John Paul II. I wasnāt interested in Catholicism yet, so Iām not sure what youāre referrring to.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
I dont know that i should talk about this issue here. take for what it is.
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TrueLight
Guest
Iām sorry I even asked.
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Dragonslayer
Guest
An excellent sermon, thankyou Bishop Fellay, and thanks for posting it keepitreal.
No propoganda, he was just outlining the difficulties being experienced in the negotiations between the SSPX & Rome. Did people think it would be plain sailing? How can it be when there are such different opinons about the SSPX? To quote; "There are certain churchmen who are close to us and who like to see us be fostered. But there are others who hate us, this being the only phrase which correctly describes their behavior towards us. They hate us and they are in Rome. Sometimes things come from them and sometimes from the others".
It is human nature, the same different opinions exist everywhere, including this forum.
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Skeptic92
Guest
Speak in charity, Bishop Fellay was validly ordained and validly consecrated to the episcopacy, which makes him a Bishop, while he does not have a Diocese he is far from a pretender. I have read the Sermon and I donāt see anything to questionable, I hear more questionable remarks from Bishops that led Catechesis at WYD, Bishop Fellay seems to just be high lighting a fight that is waging within the walls of Rome between Orthodox conservative Catholics and liberal Catholics (one issue he high lighted about a Beneictine Monasteries permission to succeed from the Order and be placed directly under the Roman Pontiff, being with held by a official of Rome after it was granted by the Pope, is well troubling).
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GaryTaylor
Guest
This situation has been going on longer than many here have been alive. They are meeting in Rome Sept. 14th. The purpose of this meeting is to give a final evaluation of the doctrinal discussions between Rome and the SSPX which have occurred since October 2009.
Peace
Peace
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Melchior_1
Guest
I agree. The betrayal and disobedience of the SSPX must have wounded hum deeply.
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jmj1984
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At_Trent
Guest
Do you think the pope is stupidā¦ or ignorant ?
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MarkThompson
Guest
Did you type āthe popeā where you meant to type ājmj1984ā? Or why on earth would the Holy Father have any connection whatsoever with the issue of the mendacious promotion of Lefebvrite propaganda under the fraudulent pretext of its being a ānews articleā?
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At_Trent
Guest
Your post called Bishop Fellay a āpretender Bishopā. The pope calls him a Bishop. He is a Bishopā¦ unless you deny Apostolic Succession. Licit or not, he is a Bishop.
You can hate the guy without lying you know. Just sayin
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wisdomseeker
Guest
What you just said is so wrong. The holy man of SSPX are not the disobedients ones. They are preserving obedience and holiness of the Catholic Faith. Donāt you hear the holy father speaking? He is constantly criticizing what is going within the Church, the unfaithfullness inside the Church. Disobedience to the Faith is what God hates, it is the disobedience of the unfaithfull. Just because one is in the church doesnt mean he is pleasing to God. Perhaps your spiritual eyes are closed to reality.
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Melchior_1
Guest
Hereās what I donāt get; the Society, in itās current state, came about through disobedience and a āend justifies the meansā mentality. Behold:
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre: I want to some consecrate some Bishops for a few reasons. Namely, this is a big-time time of crisis. Like, say, four Bishops or so.
**Pope John Paul II: ** No, I donāt like the idea.
**Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre: ** Good sir, I really think you should let me do this. Four Bishops, thatās it. Maybe three or two?
**Pope John Paul II: ** I told you why I said no, my no still stands. Do not consecrate any Bishops.
**Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre: **Your Holiness, I found these Canon Law documents which will essentially validate any conscrations I decide to do.
**Pope John Paul II: **No it wonāt, they donāt apply.
**Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre: **Says who?
**Pope John Paul II: **Says me. And in case you forgot, Iām the fellow who is the chief Canon Lawyer.
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre: What if I do it anyway?
**Pope John Paul II: **You want to do it after I said several times not to? You wonāt like what happens if you do. And please, do not consider this a bluff.
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre: Iām calling your bluff. This is a time of crisis.
**Pope John Paul II: **Iām seriously not bluffing. This is not the time or place, nor is it a crisis that fits the Canon Law.
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre: I seriously think Iām right.
**Pope John Paul II: **Youāre not.
**Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre: ** This isnāt over.
**Pope John Paul II: **I said ānoā, it should be.
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre: Proceeds to consecrate the Bishops after being ordered not to
**Pope John Paul II: ** Sigh, I told the fellow what would happen.
Queue excommunication and canonical penalties. The Archbishop very well may have died in an excommunicated state.
If they WERE truly obedient all this time, they would be reconciled right now, wouldnāt they? Or perhaps not even in need of being reconciled with Rome. Instead we see them carrying out illicit Masses, Confessions without having the rights to do so, their own marriage tribunals.
You want some TRUE some obedience?
FSSP: Hey, we want to come back.
**Pope: **Do you swear obedience to me and fully conform with what the Church teaches?
FSSP: We do.
**Pope: **Do you believe I hold The Keys?
FSSP: We do.
PopeDo you have an issue with Vatican II, Canon Law, or the Missal of Pope Paul VI?
FSSP: Nope. No issues at all. We just want to keep on saying the old Mass and do the Sacraments the old way. Weāll do it the newer ways too if you want though.
PopeNah, not really. If we really need you to, or if the local Bishop asks you too, please carry out his wishes. otherwise, just do what you do. Just respect me, and respect the new Missal. Cool?
FSSP: Cool!
**Pope:**Welcome back. Tell your friends.
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At_Trent
Guest
And both may very well be walking hand in hand in Heaven smiling down on the efforts of H.H, BXVI too
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Melchior_1
Guest
Well, half of the equation we 110% know for sure is in heaven at this point!And both may very well be walking hand in hand in Heaven smiling down on the efforts of H.H, BXVI too
Iāve seen some harsh āfireānābrimstoneā posts here directed towards those outside the Church, and Iāve always wondered how they reconcile that attitude with the excommunication of His Grace.
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