The beginning of a new day?

[jesusmademe]

Did Jesus really have the Last Supper on a Thursday? If it was held in the evening Friday had already began, right?
And I also understand that a Liturgical day is also beginning on the evening.
Why then are we saying that He held it on a Thursday?

 

[De_Maria]

To eliminate confusion. Correction, to minimize confusion.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Did Jesus really have the Last Supper on a Thursday? If it was held in the evening Friday had already began, right?
And I also understand that a Liturgical day is also beginning on the evening.
Why then are we saying that He held it on a Thursday?

The Passover meal was to be eaten

That same night they shall eat its roasted flesh
with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.
Ex 12:11-14

Holy Thursday – Evening Mass of the Lord s Supper | USCCB

Some Jews used a different calendar - see John’s version, where the Passover began Friday night.

 

[jesusmademe]

Am I wrong or what we know call Thursfay evening is actually the Liturgical beginning of Friday?
Thus the Last Supper was held on the same day as the Crucifixion ie Friday?

 

[BenYosef]

I am Jewish. We were discussing this same question on another thread about the slaughtering of the Lambs. I am getting ready to celebrate Passover, so I might be able to help.

Passover begins on Nisan 14. On that date, when we still slaughtered lambs at the Temple, the process began at the sundown of Nisan 14. Technically speaking, you could hold a Passover Seder then, if you were lucky to be one of the first to have your lamb slaughtered and bled and your dinner prepared.

But the slaughtering went on for a full day, “between the evenings” as Exodus 12.6 reads in Hebrew (it says “at twilight” in most English versions). That means between the sundown of Nisan 14 and Nisan 15 is all the time Jews (and the small number of priests by comparison) had to slaughter lambs for the nation enough for each family to have one in time for evening by Nisan 15.

Because you only had the time “between the evenings” to make preparation, someone was going to be the last to get their lamb ready. According to the law, you were to eat the lamb overnight and not leave any till morning. How could you do that if you could only slaughter lambs “between the evenings”?

Jews interpret this language in the law to mean that Nisan 14 has two evenings. Unlike other nights of the year, Passover has its own evening and the evening of Nisan 15. This is why today Jews observe Passover not on Nisan 14 but on Nisan 15, on the date when the last of the Jews in the past would have had their sacrifice ready.

But in the first century, Jesus could have been someone who had an early sacrifice. He could have had a Passover Seder on Nisan 14, a Thursday, and then been crucified on Friday. That evening would have also been Passover, the 15th of Nisan, another legitimate Seder night.

Of course I am sure people will challenge this, and I am Jewish. I am not a Messianic Jew or believe in Jesus as the Messiah (but I am part of the Catholic-Jewish dialogue and love the Catholics very much). This is just a theory and offers a possibility.

 

[TheMortenBay]

Thursfay evening is actually the Liturgical beginning of Friday?

The liturgical day goes from 00:00 to 24:00. The office of a certain more solemn day (e.g. Sundays) might begin with First Vespers (or in the ordinary form an anticipated mass).
So, this basically means the day goes form midnight to midnight, but the CELEBRATION of a day might extend into the preceding evening.

 

[BartholomewB]

I belIeve it’s very unusual for Passover to coincide exactly with Good Friday. Can you confirm this? When was the last time it happened?

 

[BenYosef]

It happened a few years ago (which I thought was funny because I said to myself, “Didn’t this just coincide recently?”), but you are correct.

It more than often does not happen this way since the Church tends to line up Easter to land with the Sunday that follows Nisan 15 (the Spring Equinox). This year it happened to line up as it does. We keep Passover regardless of the day of the week that Nisan 15 of the lunar calendar lands, (The reason Easter always changes is that you have to use the Jewish lunar calendar to determine the date of Passover, and that never matches the solar calendar which is what the Gregorian calendar is.)

The last time it did this, I believe Eastern Orthodox Easter was on the same Sunday as well as Roman Catholic Easter.

 

[jesusmademe]

This is why today Jews observe Passover not on Nisan 14 but on Nisan 15, on the date when the last of the Jews in the past would have had their sacrifice ready.

Now I am confused because you just said that the lamb was eaten when being ready and given to you. I understand this as: they didnt choose when they ate it.
But nowadays the Jews are allowed to choose on which date to eat the lamb?

So the slaughtering went on for 24 hours (from sundown to sundown the next day)?
This is is weird because…it says that the Jesus was ceucified at the same time the lamb was slaughtered. It happened 15:00 they say.
How then could there be slaughtering going on all day long if the lamb was slaughtered at a particular time?
And Jesus he didnt even eat the Lamb at the Last Supper (no lamb is ever mentioned).
I wish the Church had explained this to me as I think this is important. Maybe I am just into the thing that is only for the learned scholars and liturgists and rabbis.

 

[Gorgias]

And Jesus he didnt even eat the Lamb at the Last Supper (no lamb is ever mentioned).

The Bible doesn’t ever mention that Jesus went to the bathroom. Does that mean that He never did?

Even though the Bible doesn’t talk about everything they ate, we nevertheless know that it was a Passover meal. And, what the Bible does tells us is that Jesus picked the wine and bread from the Passover meal and used it to institute the Eucharist. That’s the point of the story that the Evangelists who wrote the Gospels are trying to point out to us!

 

[BenYosef]

Jews don’t eat lamb on Passover anymore. We celebrate Passover on the 15th of Nisan.

The above answer was just a theory to help make the Last Supper fit within the possible structure of the scenario. In the past, when the Temple was standing, it might have been possible for the setting which I wrote.

 

[TechieGuy]

This is is weird because…it says that the Jesus was ceucified at the same time the lamb was slaughtered. It happened 15:00 they say.
How then could there be slaughtering going on all day long if the lamb was slaughtered at a particular time?

I read that as a literary metaphor…

 

[qui_est_ce]

Now I am confused because you just said that the lamb was eaten when being ready and given to you. I understand this as: they didnt choose when they ate it.
But nowadays the Jews are allowed to choose on which date to eat the lamb?

I used to be confused too. Jesus ate the Passover meal on a Thursday evening (lambs already slaughtered on Wednesday).

The lambs in JOHN’s gospel, were brought in to be slaughtered on Friday, to be slaughtered in the evening and to be eaten on Saturday, a solemn holy day - that’s why they wanted Jesus to be removed from the cross before sundown.

According to Pope Benedict’s Jesus, there were two different calendars used by different sects of Jews.

I can’t find a link, but this is what Pope Benedict wrote.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Jews don’t eat lamb on Passover anymore. We celebrate Passover on the 15th of Nisan.

The above answer was just a theory to help make the Last Supper fit within the possible structure of the scenario. In the past, when the Temple was standing, it might have been possible for the setting which I wrote.

Thank you for posting here. You’ve been very helpful.

Blessed Passover to you.