The Benedictine School

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jwinch2 said:
Thanks for that detailed and thoughtful post. I have been trying to figure out what direction to go on this for a while now. As it stands, I currently use the LoTH. What I need to do more than anything is pray more of the hours and worry less about the form. That would be a much more worthy pursuit of my time than trying to figure out what version to pray.

Having said all of that, I would like to follow a more ancient form if possible, to include hymns. My only real problem with the LoTH as it stands now from a tradition standpoint is the hymns which sometimes get used. I use the DivineOffice.org website so they select the hymns. I suppose an easy solution would be to get a hymnal with traditional hymns and just substitute it instead of using the ones provided for online. St. Gregory’s Abbey, where I am discerning at the moment, is in the process of reorganizing and translating their breviary along with the rest of the American-Cassinese Congregation. When that is done, perhaps Oblates will be able to get a copy so that they can pray with the monks. Then again, perhaps not.

It is my understanding that Belmont Abbey was putting together a version for their oblates which they were going to make available for sale at some point. I am not sure if that ever happened or not.
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The point to remember is to incorporate balance into your life (not just your prayer life, but your life). That’s an important Benedictine concept. I can tell you that doing the full Monastic LOTH using the Benedictine schema (even in its post-Vatican II version with the omission of Prime) will not lead to balance outside of a monastery, if you have any kind of professional or family life. That’s 250+ psalms a week to recite.

You can try to truncate it to only doing a couple of hours (say Lauds and Vespers), but then you’ll miss out on an awful lot of beautiful and interesting psalms.

IMHO the LOTH strikes a good balance between respecting ancient traditions and making the Office attainable not only to busy diocesan clergy but the laity as well. It also offers flexibility. For instance only one daytime hour needs to be said but you can optionally observe al 3 canonical hours using the complementary psalter (gradual psalms), and if a professional or life event prevents one or two of the hours, it’s not a big issue. You can also recite psalms 4, 90 and 133 at Compline (the traditional monastic Compline psalms) optionally every night; the regular compline psalms are repeated elsewhere so you won’t miss any. You can also add the OT Canticles at the Office of Readings on Sundays and feasts to make the office the true office of Vigils.

There are other ways in which to incorporate traditions or that the LOTH observes ancient traditions:
  1. the basic structure is the same except for the standardization of the placement of the hymn and the intercessions;
  2. the “classic” Lauds and Vespers psalms are at Lauds and Vespers;
  3. some “lectio continua” of the psalms does occur;
  4. If you say the invitatory before Lauds, on Fridays if you use Ps. 66 as the invitatory, it’s followed by Ps. 50, a 1500 y.o. monastic tradition;
  5. You can optionally say the OOR on a two-week cycle making into a traditional 2-nocturne vigil;
  6. Vespers of Week 4 of the LOTH is (apart from the NT canticle) entirely from the Monastic Vespers;
  7. with minor adjustments and by saying all the minor hours regularly (and shifting mid-day prayer from Sext to Terce and None), you can actually say Monastic Vespers instead of the LOTH for the last two weeks of the 4-week cycle and not miss any psalms (some abbeys go farther, and move the other Vespers psalms of the LOTH to other hours, so they use the 4-week LOTH for Matins (OOR+Lauds) and mid-day prayer, and they use the Monastic antiphonary for Vespers and Compline.
For the hymnody, you also have a couple of options. For English, you can get the Mundelein psalter which has a pretty good English hymnal for chanted English hymns (and for that matter gives you modes to chant the psalms too); for Latin the Liber Hymnarius is available from www.solesmes.com. It’s the current approved Latin hymnal for the LOTH and Monastic LOTH as well. You can start with the regular weekday hymns which are very easy. Or you can substitute the hymns from the MD.

For my own use as I chant a good part of the Office in Latin, I use Les Heures Grégoriennes, the LOTH diurnal antiphonary for Gregorian chant. But it’s Latin/French.

It really is possible for the current LOTH to be true to ancient tradition. At the moment I have found it gives me a nice balance. If I had a bit more time I’d like to use my abbey’s schema, but I found that when I do, I have to really rush the Office especially in the morning as I have a 60 mile commute to the office. With the LOTH I have the time to chant it prayerfully.
 
OraLabora said:
The point to remember is to incorporate balance into your life (not just your prayer life, but your life). That’s an important Benedictine concept. I can tell you that doing the full Monastic LOTH using the Benedictine schema (even in its post-Vatican II version with the omission of Prime) will not lead to balance outside of a monastery, if you have any kind of professional or family life. That’s 250+ psalms a week to recite.

You can try to truncate it to only doing a couple of hours (say Lauds and Vespers), but then you’ll miss out on an awful lot of beautiful and interesting psalms.

IMHO the LOTH strikes a good balance between respecting ancient traditions and making the Office attainable not only to busy diocesan clergy but the laity as well. It also offers flexibility. For instance only one daytime hour needs to be said but you can optionally observe al 3 canonical hours using the complementary psalter (gradual psalms), and if a professional or life event prevents one or two of the hours, it’s not a big issue. You can also recite psalms 4, 90 and 133 at Compline (the traditional monastic Compline psalms) optionally every night; the regular compline psalms are repeated elsewhere so you won’t miss any. You can also add the OT Canticles at the Office of Readings on Sundays and feasts to make the office the true office of Vigils.

There are other ways in which to incorporate traditions or that the LOTH observes ancient traditions:
  1. the basic structure is the same except for the standardization of the placement of the hymn and the intercessions;
  2. the “classic” Lauds and Vespers psalms are at Lauds and Vespers;
  3. some “lectio continua” of the psalms does occur;
  4. If you say the invitatory before Lauds, on Fridays if you use Ps. 66 as the invitatory, it’s followed by Ps. 50, a 1500 y.o. monastic tradition;
  5. You can optionally say the OOR on a two-week cycle making into a traditional 2-nocturne vigil.
For the hymnody, you also have a couple of options. For English, you can get the Mundelein psalter which has a pretty good English hymnal for chanted English hymns (and for that matter gives you modes to chant the psalms too); for Latin the Liber Hymnarius is available from www.solesmes.com. It’s the current approved Latin hymnal for the LOTH and Monastic LOTH as well. You can start with the regular weekday hymns which are very easy. Or you can substitute the hymns from the MD.

For my own use as I chant a good part of the Office in Latin, I use Les Heures Grégoriennes, the LOTH diurnal antiphonary for Gregorian chant. But it’s Latin/French.

It really is possible for the current LOTH to be true to ancient tradition. At the moment I have found it gives me a nice balance. If I had a bit more time I’d like to use my abbey’s schema, but I found that when I do, I have to really rush the Office especially in the morning as I have a 60 mile commute to the office. With the LOTH I have the time to chant it prayerfully.
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Thanks. I’ll probably check out that hymnal. I appreciate the recommendation. I have considered just not doing the hymns at all in order to try to get more of the daily hours into my schedule. I know that is not really required to do the hymn, but I suppose that skipping it isn’t really idea either.

As for the rest, I am working on it. I am happy at this point when I can get morning prayer and compline in on a regular basis. Evening prayer never happens, mainly because my wife and I try to pray together and we are not home at the same time in the evening which pretty much makes that impossible.

If I can ever get to the point where I do four of the daily hours, I would be very happy with that, and believe it would set a good foundation for my prayer life. As such, I will probably stick with the LOTH as it is a bit more approachable and as you mentioned, certainly shorter.
 
jwinch2 said:
Thanks. I’ll probably check out that hymnal. I appreciate the recommendation. I have considered just not doing the hymns at all in order to try to get more of the daily hours into my schedule. I know that is not really required to do the hymn, but I suppose that skipping it isn’t really idea either.

As for the rest, I am working on it. I am happy at this point when I can get morning prayer and compline in on a regular basis. Evening prayer never happens, mainly because my wife and I try to pray together and we are not home at the same time in the evening which pretty much makes that impossible.

If I can ever get to the point where I do four of the daily hours, I would be very happy with that, and believe it would set a good foundation for my prayer life. As such, I will probably stick with the LOTH as it is a bit more approachable and as you mentioned, certainly shorter.
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I think that Lauds and Vespers are the real “musts” in praying “with” a monastery. I can’t recall one monastery when I was looking around that didn’t prescribe Lauds and Vespers; conversely, I can’t recall one that required more than Lauds and Vespers.

Vespers is a beautiful office. If I may make a suggestion: do Lauds in the morning, and do Vespers when it “fits”
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
I think that Lauds and Vespers are the real “musts” in praying “with” a monastery. I can’t recall one monastery when I was looking around that didn’t prescribe Lauds and Vespers; conversely, I can’t recall one that required more than Lauds and Vespers.

Vespers is a beautiful office. If I may make a suggestion: do Lauds in the morning, and do Vespers when it “fits”
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I would love to do Vespers. Unfortunately, my wife and I never get a chance to pray together until about 10:00 PM on most days, sometimes later.

I might see about trying it, but its a pain right now with her in school and working and me trying to get tenure.
 
jwinch2 said:
I would love to do Vespers. Unfortunately, my wife and I never get a chance to pray together until about 10:00 PM on most days, sometimes later.

I might see about trying it, but its a pain right now with her in school and working and me trying to get tenure.
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Jason,

sorry if I was unclear :o

I mean do Vespers at one of the day hours. 🙂
 
Well, I just got back from the Fall Oblate meetings at St. Gregory’s Abbey, which was very nice. I got up early and drove up, attended a beautiful Mass, did mid-day prayer, had lunch, had some meetings, did evening prayer, and watched 5 novice Oblates profess and 3 permanent Oblates profess. I had considered trying to make my novice oblation at this meeting but decided to wait until Spring and see where things are at. I don’t want to rush anything and wish to be sure of the life, the Abbey, and of course, for them to be sure of me.

Let me just say this. Man I love the Mass there! Its in English and facing the people so many traditionalists here and elsewhere wouldn’t probably like it, but I love it. Incense was used, great homily, and all of the propers and antiphons were chanted throughout. Not that I am against hymns or anything, but there was actually only one hymn used, which was in the recession and also happened to be one of my favorites. The American Cassinese Congregation has put together a new Missal which they just started using which is really nice. They are also putting together a new diurnal for the Monastic Office for the congregation to use which will have the new translation of the psalter and much more reliance on chant. I talked to the Abbot about ordering extras and allowing oblates who are interested to purchase them so that they can pray the same office as the Monks. He seemed to think it was a good idea.

Other than that, we had a meeting where the Abbot talked about news in the Benedictine Order which came out from the World Abbots Congress they just got back from. He had some interesting information on vocations world wide within the order that suggested that those communities which are really trying to be faithful to the rule and to traditional life (not traditionalist necessarily) are doing well with vocations and the ones which have gotten into other things, are not. I was speaking with one of the oblates who is also a permanent deacon and we both kind of said in response to that, that God has apparently weighed in on the matter. If he is sending vocations to places that are doing one thing, and not sending vocations to places that are doing another, there must be a reason for that.

One of the other things which came out from the Abbot’s congress is some work they will be doing on St. Anselmo University in terms of physical repair but also marking out a strategic plan to move the university forward in terms of scholarship and teaching. According to the Abbot Lawrence, the Abbot-Primate is very passionate about Benedictine Scholarship and Education and is convinced that there is a need for it in the world. To quote Abbot Lawrence, the Abbot-Primate said that they cannot leave the Pontifical Universities and theology to Opus Dei and the Jesuits, there must be a Benedictine Voice as well. I find all of this interesting, and I heartily approve.

The Abbey is also making some renovations to the Abbey Church, and the quarters they use for people discerning becoming a Monk,. They recently had a novice profession and another monk requested to take solemn vows which they are voting this week about in chapter. Several men are coming to some “Monastic Experience” days that they are having for people discerning. So, while the average age of the Monks is very old, there are also some young brothers and perhaps more on the way!

The last thing Abbot Lawrence really spoke about is that he is going right back to Rome soon for the Canonization of Blessed Kateri Tekakwitha and will actually be part of the procession along with Cardinal Dolan and some others. St. Gregory’s Abbey played a major role in missionary activity in the area and founded scores of parishes in the region back when they were known as Sacred Heart Mission themselves.

That’s pretty much it I guess. Things are still looking good regarding my possibility of becoming an oblate there and I really haven’t seen anything weird. The only minor thing is that the oblate director, who is also the prior, novice master, and the former Abbot, really loves Sr. Chittister’s writing. He acknowledges that she is very liberal (to use his words) but thinks her writing on the Holy Rule is excellent, which to be fair, by all accounts it is. There are too many good commentaries out there for me to consider buying it. I am not comfortable putting money her direction when she is so outspoken against Church teachings in some areas. Regardless, I have neither seen or heard anything that causes me any true concern at the Abbey, and if things keep going this direction, I will likely ask to make my novice oblation this Spring.

Peace of Christ,

Jason
 
jwinch2 said:
Well, I just got back from the Fall Oblate meetings at St. Gregory’s Abbey, which was very nice. I got up early and drove up, attended a beautiful Mass, did mid-day prayer, had lunch, had some meetings, did evening prayer, and watched 5 novice Oblates profess and 3 permanent Oblates profess. I had considered trying to make my novice oblation at this meeting but decided to wait until Spring and see where things are at. I don’t want to rush anything and wish to be sure of the life, the Abbey, and of course, for them to be sure of me.

Let me just say this. Man I love the Mass there! Its in English and facing the people so many traditionalists here and elsewhere wouldn’t probably like it, but I love it. Incense was used, great homily, and all of the propers and antiphons were chanted throughout. Not that I am against hymns or anything, but there was actually only one hymn used, which was in the recession and also happened to be one of my favorites. The American Cassinese Congregation has put together a new Missal which they just started using which is really nice. They are also putting together a new diurnal for the Monastic Office for the congregation to use which will have the new translation of the psalter and much more reliance on chant. I talked to the Abbot about ordering extras and allowing oblates who are interested to purchase them so that they can pray the same office as the Monks. He seemed to think it was a good idea.

Other than that, we had a meeting where the Abbot talked about news in the Benedictine Order which came out from the World Abbots Congress they just got back from. He had some interesting information on vocations world wide within the order that suggested that those communities which are really trying to be faithful to the rule and to traditional life (not traditionalist necessarily) are doing well with vocations and the ones which have gotten into other things, are not. I was speaking with one of the oblates who is also a permanent deacon and we both kind of said in response to that, that God has apparently weighed in on the matter. If he is sending vocations to places that are doing one thing, and not sending vocations to places that are doing another, there must be a reason for that.

One of the other things which came out from the Abbot’s congress is some work they will be doing on St. Anselmo University in terms of physical repair but also marking out a strategic plan to move the university forward in terms of scholarship and teaching. According to the Abbot Lawrence, the Abbot-Primate is very passionate about Benedictine Scholarship and Education and is convinced that there is a need for it in the world. To quote Abbot Lawrence, the Abbot-Primate said that they cannot leave the Pontifical Universities and theology to Opus Dei and the Jesuits, there must be a Benedictine Voice as well. I find all of this interesting, and I heartily approve.

The Abbey is also making some renovations to the Abbey Church, and the quarters they use for people discerning becoming a Monk,. They recently had a novice profession and another monk requested to take solemn vows which they are voting this week about in chapter. Several men are coming to some “Monastic Experience” days that they are having for people discerning. So, while the average age of the Monks is very old, there are also some young brothers and perhaps more on the way!

The last thing Abbot Lawrence really spoke about is that he is going right back to Rome soon for the Canonization of Blessed Kateri Tekakwitha and will actually be part of the procession along with Cardinal Dolan and some others. St. Gregory’s Abbey played a major role in missionary activity in the area and founded scores of parishes in the region back when they were known as Sacred Heart Mission themselves.

That’s pretty much it I guess. Things are still looking good regarding my possibility of becoming an oblate there and I really haven’t seen anything weird. The only minor thing is that the oblate director, who is also the prior, novice master, and the former Abbot, really loves Sr. Chittister’s writing. He acknowledges that she is very liberal (to use his words) but thinks her writing on the Holy Rule is excellent, which to be fair, by all accounts it is. There are too many good commentaries out there for me to consider buying it. I am not comfortable putting money her direction when she is so outspoken against Church teachings in some areas. Regardless, I have neither seen or heard anything that causes me any true concern at the Abbey, and if things keep going this direction, I will likely ask to make my novice oblation this Spring.

Peace of Christ,

Jason
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It warms my heart to see this post. You will continue to be in my prayers, Mr. Jason.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Jason,

The Mass/Abbey sounds awesome. Very happy for you. 🙂
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Thanks!

So far so good. I’m trying to be deliberate about this to make sure that A) Benedictine Spirituality is the right path for me and B) that there is a good match between the monastery and myself, in both directions.

Peace,
 
jwinch2 said:
Thanks!

So far so good. I’m trying to be deliberate about this to make sure that A) Benedictine Spirituality is the right path for me and B) that there is a good match between the monastery and myself, in both directions.

Peace,
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Yeah, just like me.:o:o:o:o
 
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