The best things about the reforms of Vatican II

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blaskoman #57
The best thing about Vatican II is that a future pope will condemn it.
porthos11 #58
one does not reject the Council itself and remain a faithful Catholic.
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A truthful and thus faithful statement of reality by porthos11 which sums up the stupidity and heresy accompanying the ridiculing of Vatican II.

*Donum Veritatis *completely rules out all dissent:
“32. The Magisterium has drawn attention several times to the serious harm done to the community of the Church by attitudes of general opposition to Church teaching which even come to expression in organized groups. In his apostolic exhortation Paterna cum benevolentia [1974], Paul VI offered a diagnosis of this problem which is still apropos. In particular, he addresses here that public opposition to the Magisterium of the Church also called “dissent”, which must be distinguished from the situation of personal difficulties treated above. The phenomenon of dissent can have diverse forms. Its remote and proximate causes are multiple.”
#36. “The freedom of the act of faith cannot justify a right to dissent.”
Instruction On The Ecclesial Vocation Of The Theologian, (Donum Veritatis) [DV] 1990]

There has never been, and is no, “licit dissent” as St John Paul II has confirmed: “It is sometimes claimed that dissent from the Magisterium is totally compatible with being a ‘good Catholic’ and poses no obstacle to the reception of the sacraments. This is a grave error that challenges the teaching office of the bishops of the United States and elsewhere.” [Meeting with US Bishops at Our Lady Queen of Angels Minor Seminary, Los Angeles, Sept 16, 1987].
 
blaskoman said:
Good joke! The creation of the novusordo missae was to be said in the vernacular. The Latin mass was surpressed. And latin is not being taught in most seminaries.

The best thing about Vatican II is that a future pope will condemn it.
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I think you need to read Sacrosanctum Concilium.

Please do not hijack the thread in order to post your dissent in a backhanded way.
 
“The best things about the reforms of Vatican II”

The direct and eloquent expression of God’s revelation of himself to us, in language that touches the human soul and is capable of fully engaging man’s reason. When one reads through the documents of Vatican 2, you cannot help but be impressed with the profound depth of our faith and it’s call to every person.

The Church has accepted the challenges of the times we live in and shown that Christianity is time-less.
 
“The best things about the reforms of Vatican II”

The direct and eloquent expression of God’s revelation of himself to us, in language that touches the human soul and is capable of fully engaging man’s highest reason. When one reads through the documents of Vatican 2, you cannot help but be impressed with the profound depth of our faith and it’s call to every person.

The Church has accepted the challenges of the times we live in and shown that Christianity is time-less.
 
Pray, pay and obey hasn’t changed at all. And it is still clerical.

So, the more things change, the more they remain the same. :o
 
Lormar #59
the more things change, the more they remain the same
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How trite.

Pastorally inclined like all Councils, Vatican II also developed doctrine profoundly, as Fr John a Hardon, S.J., affirms. Vatican II confirmed that even non infallible doctrine must be received with assent: “This loyal submission of the will and intellect must be given, in a special way, to the authentic teaching authority of the Roman Pontiff, even when he does not speak ex cathedra”…when doctrine is proposed or formulated. *Lumen Gentium *(Dogmatic Constitution on the Church), 25].

In his book, *Sources of Renewal *Karol Cardinal Wojtyla (Pope St John Paul II) wrote: “It may be said that every Council in the Church’s history has been a pastoral one, if only because the assembled bishops, under the Pope’s guidance, are pastors of the Church. At the same time every Council is an act of the supreme Magisterium of the Church. Magisterium signifies teaching based on authority, a teaching which is the mission of the Apostles and their successors, it is part of their function and an essential task.” The Cardinal goes on: “All this has been signally confirmed by Vatican II, which, while preserving its pastoral character and mindful of the purpose for which it was called, profoundly developed the doctrine of faith and thus provided a basis for its enrichment.” (Ibid, p 38-39).

“….collegial infallibility…marks a turning point in doctrinal history.” [See *The Catholic Catechism, 1975, Doubleday, p 232-233]. This refers to the bishops around the world when teaching in accord with the Pope; when reflecting historical continuity of teaching; and in an Ecumenical Council when approved by a Pope.

The *Dogmatic Constitution On The Church *#8 (Vatican II) teaches that “The one mediator, Christ, established and ever sustains here on earth His holy Church…(T)his is the sole Church of Christ which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic.” Fr John Hardon, S.J., describes as “unequivocal” (= clearly defined), “for the first time in conciliar history — the Church is not one of many branches.” [See *The Catholic Catechism, 1975, Doubleday, p 213].
 
clem456 said:
Does this make them “liberal traditionalists”?
“They wanna go backwards!!!”
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Except, and maybe I am misunderstanding but this was not part of Catholic tradition.

“Roman Missal that was proposed by the International Commission on English in the Liturgy in 1998 but ultimately rejected by the Vatican.” catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=24385

Traditionalists do not want to go backwards they just want to maintain or keep, not throw away our great Catholic traditions.

wdtprs.com/blog/2015/03/vatican-no-you-cant-use-the-1998-english-translation/

There is a great statement by Father Z in here in regards to arguing over English translations:

“[If only we had a single language and text to unify us in prayer. Lemme think…]”
 
Lormar said:
Pray, pay and obey hasn’t changed at all. And it is still clerical.

So, the more things change, the more they remain the same. :o
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I never felt that way and neither did most Catholics I knew at the time. Vatican II is explained by Pope John XXIII:

ourladyswarriors.org/teach/v2open.htm

We were always taught to pray.
How are we Catholic if we don’t obey?
I recall my mother struggling to balance family finances with supporting the Church.

We had Mass in Polish and English.

Ed
 
Magdalena59 said:
Except, and maybe I am misunderstanding but this was not part of Catholic tradition.

“Roman Missal that was proposed by the International Commission on English in the Liturgy in 1998 but ultimately rejected by the Vatican.” catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=24385

Traditionalists do not want to go backwards they just want to maintain or keep, not throw away our great Catholic traditions.

wdtprs.com/blog/2015/03/vatican-no-you-cant-use-the-1998-english-translation/

There is a great statement by Father Z in here in regards to arguing over English translations:

“[If only we had a single language and text to unify us in prayer. Lemme think…]”
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Your comment about Traditionalists is exactly true.

Ed
 
Magdalena59 said:
Traditionalists do not want to go backwards they just want to maintain or keep, not throw away our great Catholic traditions.
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It’s interesting that those who seem to like to point fingers at those “wanting to go backwards” have no problem going back themselves to the somewhat-vague practices of what they call the “early Church.”
 
Magdalena59 said:
Except, and maybe I am misunderstanding but this was not part of Catholic tradition.

“Roman Missal that was proposed by the International Commission on English in the Liturgy in 1998 but ultimately rejected by the Vatican.” catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=24385

Traditionalists do not want to go backwards they just want to maintain or keep, not throw away our great Catholic traditions.

wdtprs.com/blog/2015/03/vatican-no-you-cant-use-the-1998-english-translation/

There is a great statement by Father Z in here in regards to arguing over English translations:

“[If only we had a single language and text to unify us in prayer. Lemme think…]”
Click to expand...
I was pointing out the irony in “liberals” wanting to “go back”, as traditionalists are always accused of.
 
Gentlemen, please. Let’s not go in the divisive direction.

🙂

Best,
Ed
 
Magdalena59 said:
Except, and maybe I am misunderstanding but this was not part of Catholic tradition.

“Roman Missal that was proposed by the International Commission on English in the Liturgy in 1998 but ultimately rejected by the Vatican.” catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=24385

:thumbsup:Traditionalists do not want to go backwards they just want to maintain or keep, not throw away our great Catholic traditions.👍👍

wdtprs.com/blog/2015/03/vatican-no-you-cant-use-the-1998-english-translation/

There is a great statement by Father Z in here in regards to arguing over English translations:

“**If only we had a single language and text to unify us in prayer. Lemme think… " **]”:p:D
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Dear Magdalena,

Your Traditionalist comment is so true 👍 Thank you & God bless

Father Z’s comment is PRICELESS 😛 Yeah, I wonder what that could be…😉

+PAX
 
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