The Bible Has A Negative Attitude to Weath?!

[Dempsey1919]

The Bible has a negative attitude to weath and prosperity, and this worries me a great deal. It makes me think that having money is a bad thing. My faith is important to me but I also want to live a comfortable life and have some of the finer things it has to offer. In truth, I would love to be a billionaire like Donald Trump. However, Christ taught that rich people do not go to heaven.

Here are a few examples from the Gospel of St. Matthew:

Matthew 6:19-21

Do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moth and woodworm destroy them and thieves break in and steal. But store up treasures for yourselves in heaven, where neither moth nor woodworm destroys them and theives cannot break in and steal. For wherever your treasure is, there will your heart be too.

Matthew 19:16-22

And now a man came to him and asked, 'Master, what good deed must I do to possess eternal life? Jesus said to him, 'Why do you ask me about what is good? There is one alone who is good. But if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments. He said, which ones? Jesus replied, 'These: You shall not kill. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not give false witness. Honour your father and your mother. You shall love your neighbour as yourself. The young man said to him, 'I have kept all these. What more do I need to do? Jesus said, 'If you wish to be perfect, go and sell your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me. But when the young man heard these words he went away sad, for he was a man of great wealth.

Matthew 19:23-26

Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'In truth I tell you, it is hard for someone rich to enter the kingdom of Heaven. Yes, I tell you again, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for someone rich to enter the kingdom of Heaven. When the disciples heard this they were astonished. ‘Who can be saved, then?’ they said. Jesus gazed at them. ‘By human resources’, he told them, ‘this is impossible; for God everything is possible.’

How are we to interpret these verses? Taken literally, it would seem that we are called to live life in the manner chosen by St. Francis of Assisi. Most Saints lived a life of poverty, and I don’t think the Church has canonized any millionnaires. Is wealth a bad thing? The warnings against wealth run through the entire gospels.

Should Christians be wealthy? Or are we called to live a life of poverty?

On the otherhand, wealth is a great thing if used correctly. Is how we use money more important than how much we have? For example, would it be okay to be a Christian millionnaire as long as you gave a lot of money to charity and used your money to create a better world?

You only get one life. I don’t see how it is bad to want to have a good life, and provide a better life for your family. I also think that being wealthy puts you in a positition to really change the world, for example, you could pay the education costs of many aspiring priests. You could give to the poor, provide scholarships to those who cannot afford a good education. Being wealthy gives you the potential to be a better Christian.

 

[NPC]

I wouldn’t read these passages as saying that wealth is bad. At least, it is not necessarily so. Money and wealth become dangerous when they command more attention in our lives than God does. The first quote you give from Matthew seems to me to say that we should not allow ourselves to be corrupted by short-lived happiness that earthly riches can bring, but that we should be encouraged to live our lives bearing in mind what eternal riches we can gain in Heaven through serving Christ. If ones sole focus while on earth is wealth they will have to forego the riches of Heaven.

There is much more to wealth than monetary wealth - much more to be given to others than just money. We are told in Matthew 25 that when the Christ comes in glory we will be asked when did we feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, welcome the stranger, visit the sick, clothe the naked and visit the prisoner. These things are riches too - charity, love and compassion given in the service of the less well-off.

The third quote you give is the well-known one about it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into Heaven. Note, it is not said to be impossible, but hard, for a rich man to enter Heaven - it is made possible with God. Again, I wouldn’t read this passage as saying that one must leave oneself almost penniless, but that one must not forget that their main focus must be to serve God. As you said at the end of your post “being wealthy gives you the potential to be a better Christian” - the key word being “potential”. It will depend on how an individual realises this potential.

 

[Trishie]

"The rich man’s wealth is his stronghold
poverty is the poor man’s undoing."Proverbs 10: 15
"The blessing of God is what brings riches."Proverbs:22
“The reward of humility is the awe of God,
riches, honour, and life”. Proverbs 22:4

Read Ecclesiasticus 14: verses 11-15
always remembering that

"He who gives to the poor shall never want,
he who closes his eyes his eyes to them will bear many a curse."Proverbs 28:27

 

[FickleFreckled]

One of the major dangers with wealth is one of forgetfulness of God. It’s easy when a person is succcessful to believe in a sort of “self-creation” (i.e.“self-made man”). It’s easy to see ourselves as self-supporting and self-sustaining and to cease to rely on God, Who “gives them their food in due time.” Not to say there’s any truth to today’s prosperity theology, but there is a balance and respect that can be lost when we can have anything and everything we want. Power, the abuse of power and greed are temptations when great wealth is involved. Wealth requires maintenance and attention; growing that wealth requires constantly thinking of new investments, business ideas and ventures. Not much time left to be focused on God. And the wealthier a person is, the more rarefied an environment the person lives in, away from any direct contact with the suffering of the world. Giving huge gobs of money through charities is good, but it becomes very clean and clinical when there is no first-hand contact with the misery of the poor. It’s hard to feel compassion when the poor become a concept, rather than a direct reality.
All that said, God never said having money was sinful and in the Old Testament world promised to bless the righteous with prosperity. But He also demanded charity to the poor, the sick and the stranger, and constant love, obedience and attention to Him. The poor simply don’t have the same kind of temptations to power, greed, acquisition and forgetfulness of God. It’s easier for them to believe that God sustains them. Jesus acknowledged how difficult it is for the wealthy to enter the Kingdom with His reference to the “eye of the needle” and His challenge to the rich young man to give up everything to follow Him. And ultimately, wealth doesn’t protect a person from anything; it only gives the illusion of doing so. Wealth is determined by markets that rise and fall;
the wealthy get sick and die, just like everyone else.
God isn’t against wealth; He’s against what wealth can do to you.

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

Hi

I agree with the above statements. God gives so that the giving continues. The old statement - “You can only keep what you have by giving it away” is very true.

My own personal philosophy is to keep what I need and give the rest away. “What I need” however, can be a very subjective thing. I don’t believe God wants us living in a cave and eating worms, but neither do I believe He wants us living in a mansion and eating Caviar.

A safe, secure dwelling - be it an apartment or modest house; healthy food with the occasional treat, a savings account for retirement and emergencies, a usable vehicle - new enough to be low maintenance, and modest dress.

The finer things in life are to dress up a barren soul, while the meaner things in life accent the poor in spirit.

We can always fool ourselves into thinking “What I could do with a lot of money!” But - in my opinion, that’s the problem - it’s not what ‘I’ can do - it’s what GOD can do. In other words - a million dollar windfall would sure set me up, and sure I could invest some to take care of the poor and so on…but - do I really need more than what I have right now?

No.

So, the right thing to do - again in my opinion, is to take that money and use all of it for others. Either by giving it all to the Church - who is set up for taking care of the most people with the least resources, or by establishing a foundation for helping others - be it Priests or the homeless. That way it is far away from temptation and doing the most good.

My opinion

Peace

 

[FickleFreckled]

Well said! Someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe John the Baptist told Roman soldiers to be satisfied with their wages. And Jesus always encouraged people to be content in whatever their present circumstances were. The point is to live in a balanced way, putting God first in everything whether you’re wealthy, comfortable or struggling.
Some saints have said that people are given wealth in order to provide for those who are poor. The early Church had communities where everything was given over to the community so that no one had more and no one had less.

 

[JonathanEdwards]

The Bible has a negative attitude to weath and prosperity, and this worries me a great deal. It makes me think that having money is a bad thing. My faith is important to me but I also want to live a comfortable life and have some of the finer things it has to offer. In truth, I would love to be a billionaire like Donald Trump. However, Christ taught that rich people do not go to heaven.

Here are a few examples from the Gospel of St. Matthew:

How are we to interpret these verses? Taken literally, it would seem that we are called to live life in the manner chosen by St. Francis of Assisi. Most Saints lived a life of poverty, and I don’t think the Church has canonized any millionnaires. Is wealth a bad thing? The warnings against wealth run through the entire gospels.

Should Christians be wealthy? Or are we called to live a life of poverty?

On the otherhand, wealth is a great thing if used correctly. Is how we use money more important than how much we have? For example, would it be okay to be a Christian millionnaire as long as you gave a lot of money to charity and used your money to create a better world?

You only get one life. I don’t see how it is bad to want to have a good life, and provide a better life for your family. I also think that being wealthy puts you in a positition to really change the world, for example, you could pay the education costs of many aspiring priests. You could give to the poor, provide scholarships to those who cannot afford a good education. Being wealthy gives you the potential to be a better Christian.

Not sure what your priest is telling you, but the Bible doesn’t take a negative view of wealth. In fact, it tells us that wealth is a blessing from God and in most of Jesus’ parables, the figure representing God is either a rich land owner, rich king, rich master, etc.

None of the three verses you posted say that wealth is bad. Two of them say that wealth carries baggage and the other is a command to one individual, not axiomatic for everyone.

 

[Cuddy_Duck]

In fact, it tells us that wealth is a blessing from God

That’s right. Which means had God not blessed one with it, they wouldn’t have it and therefore they should take no pride in it and remember that it was given to them and act accordingly. (ie. use it to relieve the plight of others).

the figure representing God is either a rich land owner, rich king, rich master, etc.

Because it is a parable and the wealth is spiritual. I hope you don’t mean to imply that the wealthy in this world are closer to God because of their riches or status.

None of the three verses you posted say that wealth is bad.

I’ll let those passages speak for themselves.

I find it curious that on one hand there is the notion that poverty is a gift and on the other there is the notion that wealth is a blessing.

There is little argument to justify riches when others go hungry.

Luke 16:19-31

 

[Starwynd]

I dion’t want to be filthy rich.

But I want enough money to get a DVD or two each month and take a trip here and there to someplace historical for the weekend and explore the country.

Play a number of computer games online.

Pay for my meds.

Go back to school to earn my bachelor’s degree so I can go overseas and teach english.

 

[JonathanEdwards]

Because it is a parable and the wealth is spiritual. I hope you don’t mean to imply that the wealthy in this world are closer to God because of their riches or status.

No, the wealth isn’t spiritual. In the parable of the Prodigal Son, for instance, the father’s wealth is described as being material.

 

[tm30]

Wealth is as much a “blessing” as it is a “curse”. It all depends on how one approaches their fortune. We can’t blanket-say, “Being wealthy is un-Christian”. Hardly. Great wealth brings the capacity for doing great good in situations where the less-wealthy cannot. But, as the saying goes, “to whom much is given…”

Can one live in opulence and miserly refuse to help others in need? No. But there’s the “curse”. Wealth can make a man the benefactor of his fellow man, or an island unto himself that ends in nothingness and destruction. To those who do God’s will, it is a blessing to them and to those who receive from them. To those who refuse God’s will, money becomes a millstone around the neck, dragging them into the abyss.

So, there’s not cut-and-dry answer. It’s not wrong to live in comfort; the key is to live in moderation with what God gives us.

For each person, for each station in life, the demand is different. To a contemplative mystic, or a missionary, there is little need for creature comforts. For the rest of us, comfort is not a sin, as long as our comfort doesn’t cause an injustice to others. Some achieve wealth by oppressing the poor or cheating the worker. Some inherit it. Some receive it by pure luck. Some work hard, provide attention and care to their families, serve God, help the poor and marginalized, tithe to the Church, and live in mansions. Are they sinners, or merely blessed and sharing that blessing with others?

These are tough questions that sometimes can only be answered subjectively. Jesus didn’t demand that all wealthy people give away their wealth, just the one whom he knew would let it be an obstacle to following Him. Is that true for most? Probably. Is that true for all? No.

 

[elvisman]

I wouldn’t characterize Scripture as having a negative attitude towards wealth. I would call it a cautionary one.

 

[tm30]

I dion’t want to be filthy rich.

But I want enough money to get a DVD or two each month and take a trip here and there to someplace historical for the weekend and explore the country.

Play a number of computer games online.

Pay for my meds.

Go back to school to earn my bachelor’s degree so I can go overseas and teach english.

One doesn’t want to be over-scrupulous, either. There is such a thing as a martyr-complex, wherein a person believes that utter destruction will follow if, for example, I don’t give away all my wealth. As if it’s in our power to singularly save the world.

It also tends to devolve into the canard that the Church should sell all of its priceless art and give the money to the poor. As long as anyone’s excess wealth is used to glorify God, or bring others close to God, it’s a good thing.

If one were to win the lottery, one would hope that the winner would take the excess and do good with it, instead of hoarding it away, where it will just rot.

 

[Starwynd]

And actually there is the story of the rich man coming up to Jesus asking how he can get into heaven. Jesus tells him he has to get rid of his wealth.

You know, I remember a few years back that me and my nmom ahd a visit to my aunt. She was watching a televangelist who was going on about how Bill Gates wasn’t doing enough for charity. Bill Gates does give a small portion of his wealth to charity. But that small portion is million of dollars in comparison to ten twenty or fifty dollars someone like me can afford. So Bill Gates can help a huge amount of people where as somebody like me can only help a few.

But the televangelist was strongly insinuating that Bill Gates had to give up all of his wealth in order to please God. And I got to thinking about it then I noticed something…

The televangelist was wearing a rolex. And thousand dollar designer clothes.

So that got me to thinking about why should Bill Gates have to give up all of his wealth when the televangelist had all the trappings of wealth himself?

There is also a Ray Stevens song about that very thing, which I didn’t hear until long after I visited my aunt, but it always sticks in my head now when I think about this. Here are the lyrics:

there in livin’ color, was somethin’ I can’t forget.
This man was preachin’ at me, yeah, layin’ on the charm
askin’ me for twenty, with ten-thousand on his arm.
He wore designer clothes, and a big smile on his face
tellin’ me salvation while they sang Amazin’ Grace.
Askin’ me for money, when he had all the signs of wealth.
I almost wrote a check out, yeah, then I asked myself

(chorus)

Would He wear a pinky ring, would He drive a fancy car?
Would His wife wear furs and diamonds, would His dressin’ room have a star?
If He came back tomorrow, well there’s somethin’ I’d like to know
Could ya tell me, Would Jesus wear a Rolex on His television show.

Would Jesus be political if He came back to earth?
Have His second home in Palm Springs, yeah, a try to hide His worth?
Take money, from those poor folks, when He comes back again,
and admit He’s talked to all them preachers who say they been a talkin’ to Him?

(chorus)

Just ask ya’ self, Would He wear a pinky ring,
Would He drive a fancy car?
Would His wife wear furs and diamonds, would His dressing room have a star?
If He came back tomorrow, well there’s somethin’ I’d like to know:
Could ya tell me, would Jesus wear a Rolex,
Would jesus wear a Rolex
Would Jesus wear a Rolex
On His television show-ooh-ooh?

Here’s the you tube video of the song:

youtube.com/watch?v=76ohvqwsNkk

And please note the song is not a criticism of Jesus, but a criticism of televangelists. What he is asying that the televangelists are not following jesus’s example when they ask for people to give up all of their wealth and live in poverty when they have all the trappings of wealth themselves.

 

[JonathanEdwards]

And actually there is the story of the rich man coming up to Jesus asking how he can get into heaven. Jesus tells him he has to get rid of his wealth.

Please read the whole passage. Jesus isn’t telling him that he will be saved by getting rid of his wealth and, even if He were, it is directed to one person, not axiomatic for all people.

Besides, if it takes poverty to get into Heaven, then God contradicts Himself by damning those He blesses with wealth.

What he is asying that the televangelists are not following jesus’s example when they ask for people to give up all of their wealth and live in poverty when they have all the trappings of wealth themselves.

So what do you do with those televangelists who are not wealthy and who do not ask people to give up their wealth?

 

[Jack_245814]

I read somewhere (think it was “Economic Thought Before Adam Smith”) that there were some early christians, inside and outside the Church, who did preach an anti-wealth message and were bordering on being truly “Communistic” (as in property-less communes not Marxism) at times.

I’m pretty sure (though please correct me if I’m wrong) that it was some of the early Canon Lawyers at the colleges who first unambiguously pronounced that wealth was fine as long as it was spent to promote your family, and not just kept for the sake of being greedy. Of course this was one of the laws that was judged in the “Inner Court” of the confessional booth, not the actual ecclesiastical courts, because the definition of “greed” vs. “helping your family” is very subjective. Then, of course, the Scholastics further cemented this into place with their interest in Aristotle, and his defense of property.

Pretty sure “Christian Communism” was dead for the most part from then on until the Reformation.

 

[Cuddy_Duck]

No, the wealth isn’t spiritual. In the parable of the Prodigal Son, for instance, the father’s wealth is described as being material.

Where do I begin?

:crying:

Perhaps here.

Matthew 13:10-17

It is a parable.

The material wealth of the father in this story is the spiritual wealth of Our Father in truth.

As it is written:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’

 

[JonathanEdwards]

Where do I begin?

:crying:

Perhaps here.

Matthew 13:10-17

It is a parable.

The material wealth of the father in this story is the spiritual wealth of Our Father in truth.

That’s not what Jesus says. The land is land, the wealth is wealth, the pigs are pigs.

I think you’re confusing parable with allegory.

 

[eucharist04]

The Bible has a negative attitude to weath and prosperity, and this worries me a great deal. It makes me think that having money is a bad thing. My faith is important to me but I also want to live a comfortable life and have some of the finer things it has to offer. In truth, I would love to be a billionaire like Donald Trump. However, Christ taught that rich people do not go to heaven.

Here are a few examples from the Gospel of St. Matthew:

How are we to interpret these verses? Taken literally, it would seem that we are called to live life in the manner chosen by St. Francis of Assisi. Most Saints lived a life of poverty, and I don’t think the Church has canonized any millionnaires. Is wealth a bad thing? The warnings against wealth run through the entire gospels.

Should Christians be wealthy? Or are we called to live a life of poverty?

On the otherhand, wealth is a great thing if used correctly. Is how we use money more important than how much we have? For example, would it be okay to be a Christian millionnaire as long as you gave a lot of money to charity and used your money to create a better world?

You only get one life. I don’t see how it is bad to want to have a good life, and provide a better life for your family. I also think that being wealthy puts you in a positition to really change the world, for example, you could pay the education costs of many aspiring priests. You could give to the poor, provide scholarships to those who cannot afford a good education. Being wealthy gives you the potential to be a better Christian.

Jesus is not against money(wealth). The problem is not money but the person who has it. It is all the attitude of the heart.

 

[Cuddy_Duck]

That’s not what Jesus says. The land is land, the wealth is wealth, the pigs are pigs.

I think you’re confusing parable with allegory.

They are distinct.

I think your employing semantics in the manner of a sophist.