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JRKH
Guest
Hey someotherguy,
Don’t forget my questions earlier. Remember your still on the Jury here.
Peace
James
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someotherguy
Guest
I didn’t forget about them. I’m just not interested in them.Hey someotherguy,
Don’t forget my questions earlier. Remember your still on the Jury here.
Peace
James
J
JRKH
Guest
It is sad that you are willing to put all of your faith and hope in one book, yet are unable or unwilling to share how you can do that.
After all any book, The Bible and the Quaran both claim to be the Word of God, so please convince me that one is and the other is not.
Consider that you are evangelizing someone who is also talking to a Muslim. How are you going to convince him that the Bible is the Word of God and the Quaran is not?
You certainly can’t just quote the Bible about itself, sinde the Muslim can do the same with the Quaran. How do you approach your friend that you are evangelizing?
Peace
James
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someotherguy
Guest
And it is sad that you have no reverence for the word of God.
I’m not. If I’m evangelizing someone, then I’m going to present the Gospel to them, not get into an apologetics argument with them.
J
JRKH
Guest
Then why are you bothering with this thread?
L
Lilyflower
Guest
Amen
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someotherguy
Guest
What does one have to do with the other?
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JRKH
Guest
Simple. This thread is about Apologetics. The very thing you said you would not get into earlier. You would rather allow your friend to be swayed by the Muslim evangelist rather engage in apologetics.
This thread is about the Bible being inextricably tied to the Catholic Church and needs to be understood within that context. The Bible you hold did not fall out of the Sky with a “Printed in Heaven” on the title page. It was “canonized” by the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
As a Catholic I have an answer to the question of the validity of the Bible. I know how we came to have the Bible and this gives me a leg up on you. Anyone who looks around and sees all the different “interpretations” and various denominations is bound to ask sooner or later, “If Sola Scriptura is true, why is the Word of God interpreted so differently by thousands of different denominations?”
I have a clear and unambigious line of succession right back to the Church fathers and through them to the Apostles and to Christ Himself. I Have a Church founded by Christ Himself which He promised to never abandon. I have a Spirit guided authority to which I can appeal when I’m not sure how to interpret something.
You have an evangelism of, “This Bible is the word of God. I can’t really prove it because I don’t do apologetics, but just take my word for it.”
Peace
James
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someotherguy
Guest
Actually, as a Christian, I know how the Bible came to be, too.
What’s more, I believe what it says and can defend the truth of it’s message.
First of all, there aren’t “thousands of denominations”. There are a couple hundred.
Second, what does one have to do with the other?
I have the living word of God.
So do I.
So do I.
No, actually, I have an evangelism of preaching the Gospel.
J
JRKH
Guest
Then we are back to the point of the thread and the questions which “don’t interest you.” "How do you KNOW the Bible being the innerrant Word of God outside of the authority of the Catholic Church?
Peace
James
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Lilyflower
Guest
If the CC started around 300 AD then who do you think is responsible for training and ordaining the deacon St Callistus around the year 195? Which Church elected Pope Zephyrinus? When St Callistus succeeded Pope Zephyrinus who died around AD 200, who elected him?
Which Church appointed St Clement Pope and Martyr around the end of the first century?
Which Church ordained Saint Cornilius Bishop of Rome in the year 251? Who ordained St Cyrprian priest around the year 220 and appointed St Cyprian Bishop of Cathage in the year 249? Which Church recorded his martydom for the faith in the year 258?
Which Church did Pope St Sixtus 2 preside over in 257?
Which Church did Pope St Sixtus 1 preside over between AD 114 - 128?
I hear you say: 'ah but prove he was anything to do with the CC?
Pope St Sixtus was responsible for introducing the Sanctus [Holy Holy Holy] into the Mass. He also was responsible for several rites of the Mass. He also passed the Papal decree that only Ordained ministers were to touch the sacred vessels used in the Mass that contained the body and Blood of Christ
This also attests that the early Church believed in the Real Presence at least as far back as AD 114!
Two apocryphal letters bearing on the Holy Trinity and the Primacy of the Church of Rome were written by Pope St Sixtus 1 around the year 120!
He was famous for another reason: he was so young when he was ordained Priest of the Church of Rome that a Bishop had to show a letter signed by the Pope before laity would accept that he was an ordained priest
I could go on but I think the above attests to the lie that the CC did not start until around AD 300. Not only was it well established but the evidence [freely available on the net if you care to go and look] shows the Bishop of Rome was well established by the end of the first century and so was the Holy Mass and so too belief in the Real Presence
Blessings and peace
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Lilyflower
Guest
Which Church has a Bishop who scribed one book of the New Testament and authored another? 1 Ptr and 2 Ptr. Pope St Clement disciple of St Peter.
Blessins and peace
Blessins and peace
S
someotherguy
Guest
Because I can examine the Bible and judge it on it’s own merits.
X
xixxvmcm85
Guest
Yet you don’t offer any of such merits for examination!
We’ve been extremely patient with you here yet you consistently do absolutely nothing but babble and make appeals to emotion, for example: the numerous times you’ve labeled someone here a blasphemer or of “insulting God’s word” when we’ve only played devil’s advocate in order to understand exactly where you’re coming from.
Maybe if I scream in all caps it will get through to you:
TELL ME PRECISELY WHY YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE TO BE THE WORD OF GOD WITHOUT APPEALING TO AD HOMINEMS, NON SEQUITORS, OR CIRCULAR REASONING
Thank You.
T
teancum79
Guest
In my case beacuse I trust God’s prophet.
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Ronald_E
Guest
What does that mean?
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teancum79
Guest
Funny thing because a lot of the spiritual leaders where condemned by Christ for their sins and errors, but things where okay. Under that logic as long as some one somewhere pretends to follow a teaching life is good and God does not need to fix things. On the other hand at that time God did send John the Baptist and His Son to fix things.
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Ronald_E
Guest
That is correct. I am identifying the psycodynamics of your response. There is no judgement nor condemnation. There is analysis of the structure and vocabulary used.Well, at least you’re not judgemental and condemning about it.
Look at your statement above which is classic sarcasm and the rolling of the eyes is a universal language for disdain.
Forgive me for interrupting this thread with this.
J
JRKH
Guest
And I, your intended disciple, comes to you with a Bible I got from another friend. We’re looking through it and I realize that the bible my friend gave me has more books in it than yours does. Seven of them to be exact. In addition, this Bible has longer a longer version of the Book of Daniel in it.
So now I look at you and ask, "How can you tell me that the Bible is the True and innerrant word of God when these two “Holy Bibles” have different numbers of books and different versions of books in them?
If God is providing this perfect Book for us, how can there be this difference?
Peace
James
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