The Bible is Catholic -

[Hisalone]

None of which supports your assertion that people were killed for owning a Bible, nor does it nagate the origons of the bible.

What it does point up is that there were some practices within the Church that needed addressed, which the Church will readily admit. The Church is, after all, a Hospital for Sinners.

Peace
James

All of this indicates a corrupt tradition. One which used Gods word not to further His kingdom but the temporal kings here on earth…
This is not the tradition which you wish us to interpret the bible, however it is your tradition.
Again the arrogance of Catholics who would superceed the Jewish tradition in interpreting the OT just as they lay claim to be the new Isreal.
All these positions are from a point of elitism and arrogance that you cannot see but is obvious to an outsider.

 

[Ronald_E]

All of this indicates a corrupt tradition. One which used Gods word not to further His kingdom but the temporal kings here on earth…
This is not the tradition which you wish us to interpret the bible, however it is your tradition.
Again the arrogance of Catholics who would superceed the Jewish tradition in interpreting the OT just as they lay claim to be the new Isreal.
All these positions are from a point of elitism and arrogance that you cannot see but is obvious to an outsider.

You are telling us what our tradition is without knowing what our tradition is. You are telling us you know better about our Catholic faith than we know about our faith and we are the people who live our faith and delve into the depths of our faith for a deeper relationship with God.
Protestant rebellion was formed from sin and not love. The underlying sin is always an influence that appears as an attack against the Catholic Church.
The words elitism and arrogance are your labels as an “outsider” that depict an internal state of mind that appears to be influenced by something other than love.
I must go for my morning Rosary Run which I love because it brings me closer to a deeper understanding of Jesus and His Mother which is the basis of our Faith.
God Bless.

 

[JRKH]

All of this indicates a corrupt tradition. One which used Gods word not to further His kingdom but the temporal kings here on earth…
This is not the tradition which you wish us to interpret the bible, however it is your tradition.
Again the arrogance of Catholics who would superceed the Jewish tradition in interpreting the OT just as they lay claim to be the new Isreal.
All these positions are from a point of elitism and arrogance that you cannot see but is obvious to an outsider.

You are obviously confused on what the term tradition means within the Church. Pointing up certain practices and instances of sinful individuals, or even groups, does simply not equate to “tradition”. If you wish to continue discussing, we need to be sure we are using proper terminology.
See my previous response to what some of you call “tradition.”

This kind of misuse of terminology is the same thing that led you to erroneously believe that the Church forbade the Bible, when in fact she only forbade certain editions of the Bible.

Peace
James

 

[Protestant101]

You said “innocent Christians”. Hus and Tyndale had a lot more going on than “owning a Bible.”

What is your source, please?

In other words it was OK to kill them because of this??

 

[Mystic_of_God]

T h e “C r i m e s” o f W i l l i a m T y n d a l e . . .
First: He maintains that faith alone justifies.
Second: He maintains that to believe in the forgiveness of sins and to embrace
the mercy offered in the Gospel, is enough for salvation.
Third: He avers that human traditions cannot bind the conscience, except
where their neglect might occasion scandal.
Fourth: He denies the freedom of the will.
Fifth: He denies that there is any purgatory.
Sixth: He affirms that neither the Virgin nor the Saints pray for us in their
own person.
Seventh: He asserts that neither the Virgin nor the Saints should be invoked by us.
williamtyndale.com/0crimesofwilliamtyndale.htm

You forgot his anti-clericalism, his corruption, his treason…

 

[Protestant101]

I agree there have been poor leaders and abuses in the Church. Jesus was born into such a history. Reform is always needed as our understanding of our faith deepens.

This is exactly what Protestants have been saying. Reform is needed. Not just one denomination wrote the Bible; or is privy to understanding it. Jesus Himself said that we do not live by “bread alone;” but by “EVERY Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Mat. 4:4). The life that Christ gives to the world is in His Word. it was by His Word that Jesus healed diseases and cast out demons. By His Word he stillled the sea and raised the dead. The people often bore witness that His Word was with power. He spoke the Word of God, just as He had spoken through all the prophets and teachers of the Old Testament. It cannot be denied how that the whole Bible is a manifestation of Christ, and how the Savior desired to fix the faith of His followers upon His Word. When His visible presence was withdrawn, Jesus designed that His Word must be the source of the Christian’s power today. Like their Master, Christians are to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Stop telling Christians to not do this and to filter all their understandings through your church and your Pope. We are not robots and God has designed His Word so that anyone anywhere can sit down with His Book and understand His Word.

 

[JRKH]

This is exactly what Protestants have been saying. Reform is needed. Not just one denomination wrote the Bible; or is privy to understanding it. Jesus Himself said that we do not live by “bread alone;” but by “EVERY Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Mat. 4:4). The life that Christ gives to the world is in His Word. it was by His Word that Jesus healed diseases and cast out demons. By His Word he stillled the sea and raised the dead. The people often bore witness that His Word was with power. He spoke the Word of God, just as He had spoken through all the prophets and teachers of the Old Testament. It cannot be denied how that the whole Bible is a manifestation of Christ, and how the Savior desired to fix the faith of His followers upon His Word. When His visible presence was withdrawn, Jesus designed that His Word must be the source of the Christian’s power today. Like their Master, Christians are to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Stop telling Christians to not do this and to filter all their understandings through your church and your Pope. We are not robots and God has designed His Word so that anyone anywhere can sit down with His Book and understand His Word.

And come up with any number of different interpretations.
If the Protestant reformation came about because of the need for legitimate reform in the Church we can raise two questions.

The First would be why the Protests continued after the Church acted on the need for reformation at the council of Trent addressed many of the abuses and issues raised by the Protestant leaders?
After all the root cause issue that caused the break wasn’t so much the authority of Rome, or the Papacy, but the abuses that were seen in the Church by these leaders.

The second question is why are there so many interpretations/denominations today? It seems that if God gives each person the ability to truly understand the Bible, there wouldn’t be so many variations and disputes even on basic issues.
I could understand if there were 3 or even 4 “Protestant” denominations, all holding to similar views and interpretations and all tracing themselves to one or the other of the 3 or 4 top leaders of the Reformation.
But to have hundreds or even thousands of independent and conflicting denominations, and “non-denominational Christian Churches” defies the logic of your belief in self interpretation.

Yes God gives us the ability to learn much from reading and studying the Bible, but He gave us First the Church to Teach His Truth.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

In this scenerio - I’m ignorant - I can’t give a substantiated reason, because I DON’T KNOW.
All I do know is I have one friend who uses one Bible and another Friend who uses another Bible. These Bibles are not just different translations they are DIFFERENT BOOKS.
You expect me to believe that the Bible is THE Word of GOD but you cannot explain to me why one version of THE WORD has 66 books and another has 73?
I’m sitting across a table from you asking you to explain this so I can believe and give credence to this “Christianity” thing, and all you can say is:
I HAVE NOT MANAGE TO GIVE A SUBSTANTIATED REASON?

Peace
James

Hey Protestant101 -
I’m still sitting here with my two open Bibles waiting for you to help me understand:

1. Why there are different numbers of books in them and
2. How can I trust that the Bible is the Word of God given that, obviously humans feel they can add or subtract books and parts of Books from God’s Word.

Peace
James

 

[Ronald_E]

This is exactly what Protestants have been saying. Reform is needed. Not just one denomination wrote the Bible; or is privy to understanding it. Jesus Himself said that we do not live by “bread alone;” but by “EVERY Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Mat. 4:4). The life that Christ gives to the world is in His Word. it was by His Word that Jesus healed diseases and cast out demons. By His Word he stillled the sea and raised the dead. The people often bore witness that His Word was with power. He spoke the Word of God, just as He had spoken through all the prophets and teachers of the Old Testament. It cannot be denied how that the whole Bible is a manifestation of Christ, and how the Savior desired to fix the faith of His followers upon His Word. When His visible presence was withdrawn, Jesus designed that His Word must be the source of the Christian’s power today. Like their Master, Christians are to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Stop telling Christians to not do this and to filter all their understandings through your church and your Pope. We are not robots and God has designed His Word so that anyone anywhere can sit down with His Book and understand His Word.

Why did you take only one quote out of my message and use it to support your belief system?
My entire message was ignored and others could not get the full picture of what I stated if they only read your response to me. It seems to distort what I stated and may mislead others into believing I stated something that I never stated.
Below others will see my entire message.

 

[Ronald_E]

I agree there have been poor leaders and abuses in the Church. Jesus was born into such a history. Reform is always needed as our understanding of our faith deepens. However, Jesus did not want separation and division. He wanted us to be as one in love as He and His Father are one. I have no problem with disagreement. It is the fragmenting and separation of our Church that weakens all of us and this fragmentation is the result of unconscious and unforgiven sin that led to rebellion in the 15th and 16th centuries. This is exactly what evil desires; divide them and let them argue among themselves.

 

[Protestant101]

Reform is always needed as our understanding of our faith deepens

As I mentioned; this is true; and Protestants have been saying this all along.

 

[Ronald_E]

As I mentioned; this is true; and Protestants have been saying this all along.

Why do you use such a disrespectful tactic. I just returned from my Rosary Run and this morning God had me focus on a deeper understanding of the hardening of heart and I thank God constantly for giving me the opportunity to practice this understanding.
It was a hardening of hearts of men that divided our beautiful Catholic faith. It saddens me that Jesus’ Love that he wished for all of us to be united with under Him and His Church is not fulfilled. His Heart that was made only from the flesh of His Mother’s and her union with the Holy Spirit is another result of the Rosary Run this morning. In her silence she pondered many things in her heart and her heart was in tremendous pain that only a mother would know when her Son our Savior was sacrificed for us.
Is He sad now with this thread?

 

[Lilyflower]

Because I can examine the Bible and judge it on it’s own merits.

I find it astonishing that some do not believe a single word that the Catholic Church says but believe every word that She wrote!

If the Catholic Church is ‘iffy’ then so too must be her book the Bible!

 

[teancum79]

I find it astonishing that some do not believe a single word that the Catholic Church says but believe every word that She wrote!

If the Catholic Church is ‘iffy’ then so too must be her book the Bible!

if the CC is claiming to have written the Bible we should all sue for plagiarism.

 

[Protestant101]

Why do you use such a disrespectful tactic. I just returned from my Rosary Run and this morning God had me focus on a deeper understanding of the hardening of heart and I thank God constantly for giving me the opportunity to practice this understanding.

“Disrespectful” is just another disrespectful tactic. Whatever this “Rosary Run” thing is; I wonder now just what it has taught you to practice. How has it taught you that the Bible is “Catholic?”

 

[SIA]

“Disrespectful” is just another disrespectful tactic. Whatever this “Rosary Run” thing is; I wonder now just what it has taught you to practice. How has it taught you that the Bible is “Catholic?”

Very good point. The Bible is a collaberation of writings and letters by those who were inspired by God to do so. The Early church put these collaberations together in a very painstakingly critical process that wasn’t decided upon in a simple matter of days. The Scriptures are writings inspired by God himself for us. They are the same forever. The Word of God. They were not written by Catholics or any denomination. They were written by those thought of as early Christians. I don’t care what anyone claims and how ridiculous the claim, the Holy Scriptures didn’t come from Rome.

 

[ibkc]

Very good point. The Bible is a collaberation of writings and letters by those who were inspired by God to do so. The Early church put these collaberations together in a very painstakingly critical process that wasn’t decided upon in a simple matter of days. The Scriptures are writings inspired by God himself for us. They are the same forever. The Word of God. They were not written by Catholics or any denomination. They were written by those thought of as early Christians. I don’t care what anyone claims and how ridiculous the claim, the Holy Scriptures didn’t come from Rome.

It is history. The “Early Christians” who wrote the books included in the Bible were Catholic. The men who determined the canon and assembled the Bible into the form we know now were Catholic. You yourself refer to “the early church.” What do you think that church was? To insist it was not the Catholic Church is to wallow in ignorance.

 

[SIA]

It is history. The “Early Christians” who wrote the books included in the Bible were Catholic. The men who determined the canon and assembled the Bible into the form we know now were Catholic. You yourself refer to “the early church.” What do you think that church was? To insist it was not the Catholic Church is to wallow in ignorance.

baloney…

 

[SIA]

It is history. The “Early Christians” who wrote the books included in the Bible were Catholic. The men who determined the canon and assembled the Bible into the form we know now were Catholic. You yourself refer to “the early church.” What do you think that church was? To insist it was not the Catholic Church is to wallow in ignorance.

Show me where the Holy Scriptures depict that they were written by the Roman Catholic church. That should put a reasonable end to this nonsense.

 

[JRKH]

Very good point. The Bible is a collaberation of writings and letters by those who were inspired by God to do so.

You are very right. The Bible is a collection of writings from the earliest revelations down through Christ Himself.

The Early church put these collaberations together in a very painstakingly critical process that wasn’t decided upon in a simple matter of days.

Right again. The actual Process of codifying took roughly around 100 years and 4 or more councils. It was carried out under the guidance of the Holy Spirit acting through The Church in the Bishops.

The Scriptures are writings inspired by God himself for us. They are the same forever. The Word of God. They were not written by Catholics or any denomination.

In the First centuries after Christ, something like 200 various documents were written, all claiming apostolic authority. Some include, the Shepard of Hermes, Gospel of Thomas, Apocholypse of Peter, Gospel of Mathew, Pauls letter to the Corinthians, Gospel of Mark, Gospel of the Egyptians, Gospel of the Hebrews, Letters to Timothy, Acts of the Apostles, Letter of Polycarp to the Phillipians, Didache, Epistle of Jude, Preaching of Peter and so on.
The Job of the Bishops in council was to determine which of all of these books should be included in the canon of the Bible.

They were written by those thought of as early Christians. I don’t care what anyone claims and how ridiculous the claim, the Holy Scriptures didn’t come from Rome.

Yes they were written by members of the Church instituted by Christ and Given His authority on earth through Apostolic succession. That Church came to be called Catholic which is derived froma Greek word meaning “Universal”.
The Holy Scriptures came from pens guided by the spirit, as did a great many other fine, and not so fine, writen works in the ealy church. But the decision as to which would be included in the Canon came through Christ’s Church, The Catholic Church which happens to be based in Rome.

Peace
James