G
- Status
J
jblake
Guest
JRKH;:
jonathon
Oriental Christianity for starters.
The intersection of books that are considered to be Canonical by one or more Christian organizations consists of:
- Genesis;
- Exodus;
- Leviticus;
- Numbers;
- Deuteronomy;
- Psalms;
- Matthew;
- Mark;
- Luke;
- John;
However, no Christian organization has a canon that consists only of those books.
- Genesis;
- Exodus;
- Leviticus;
- Numbers;
- Deuteronomy;
- Prayer Manasseh;
- Book of Enoch;
- Book of Jubilees;
- Joshua;
- Judges;
- Ruth;
- 1, 2, 3, 4 Kingdoms;
- 1, 2 Chronicles;
- Ezra;
- Nehemiah;
- 1, 2 Esdras;
- Apocalypse of Ezra;
- Esther;
- Greek Esther;
- Job;
- Psalms;
- Psalm 151;
- Psalm 152, 153. 154, 155;(?)
- Proverbs;
- Qopeth;
- Song of Solomon;
- Isaiah;
- Ascension of Isaiah;
- Jeremiah;
- Lamentations;
- Baruch;
- Epistle of Jeremiah;
- Ezekiel;
- Daniel;
- Prayer of Azariah;
- Song of the Three Young Men;
- The Story of Susanna;
- The Story of Bel and the Dragon;
- Hosea;
- Joel;
- Amos;
- Obediah;
- Jonah;
- Micah;
- Nahum;
- Habback;
- Zepheniah;
- Haggai;
- Zacharia;
- Malachi;
- 1, 2, 3, 4 Maccabees;
- 1, 2, 3 Merqab;
- Judith;
- Tolbit;
- Wisdom Solomon;
- Odes of Solomon;
- Matthew;
- Mark;
- Luke;
- John;
- Acts;
- Romans;
- 1, 2, 3 Corinthians;
- Galatians;
- Ephesians;
- Epistle to the Laodiceans;
- Phillipians;
- Colossians;
- 1, 2 Thessalonians;
- 1, 2 Timothy;
- Titus;
- Philemon;
- Hebrews;
- James;
- 1, 2 Peter;
- 1, 2, 3 John;
- Jude;
- Revelation;
- Shephard of Hermas;
- Didascalia;
- 1, 2 Clement;
- 1, 2, 3, 4 Sinodus;
- 1, 2 Book of the Covenant;
However, no Christian organization has a canon that consists of all of those books.
- Genesis;
- Exodus;
- Leviticus;
- Numbers;
- Deuteronomy;
jonathon
J
JRKH
Guest
That is quite a list.
As to the Churches, would you be refering to the ones listed on this site?
Peace
James
J
jblake
Guest
JRKH;:
xan
jonathon
Some are on that list, some aren’t on that list.
xan
jonathon
J
joe370
Guest
Indisputable fact: The Books Of The New Testament are of catholic origin…
From the year A.D. 50 through A.D. 405, several writings appeared claiming to be written by an Apostle, or someone close to an Apostle. These were often read in Church. The Catholic Church, the only Christian church in existence at the time, (not one denomination existed, just heretical movements, quashed by the C.C., thank God) had to decide which writings were authentic and inspired, and which would make up the “canon”, or the list of the sacred books of the New Testament. The standard used to declare a book as belonging to the canon of the New Testament, or the Church’s official list of sacred writings:
Writings Which the Catholic Church decided to be the “Canon” of Scripture of the New Testament:
bold =Writings which the Catholic Church decided to be the “Canon” of Scripture of the New Testament.
Th C.C. clearly gave us the 27 books of the N.T. so, doesn’t that mean the N.T. is catholic, since we can’t seem to agree on the O.T.?
[scborromeo.org/truth/fig4.htm
](http://www.scborromeo.org/truth/fig4.htm)
From the year A.D. 50 through A.D. 405, several writings appeared claiming to be written by an Apostle, or someone close to an Apostle. These were often read in Church. The Catholic Church, the only Christian church in existence at the time, (not one denomination existed, just heretical movements, quashed by the C.C., thank God) had to decide which writings were authentic and inspired, and which would make up the “canon”, or the list of the sacred books of the New Testament. The standard used to declare a book as belonging to the canon of the New Testament, or the Church’s official list of sacred writings:
- Written by an Apostle or one close to an Apostle.
- Liturgical use - use at Mass was an official approval.
- Orthodoxy in doctrine - the teaching had to agree with the teaching of the Catholic Church.
Writings Which the Catholic Church decided to be the “Canon” of Scripture of the New Testament:
bold =Writings which the Catholic Church decided to be the “Canon” of Scripture of the New Testament.
- =Writings (existing today) which the Church decided would NOT be included in the “Canon.”
- =Writings (no longer in existence) which the Church decided would NOT be included in the “Canon.”
Th C.C. clearly gave us the 27 books of the N.T. so, doesn’t that mean the N.T. is catholic, since we can’t seem to agree on the O.T.?
[scborromeo.org/truth/fig4.htm
](http://www.scborromeo.org/truth/fig4.htm)
J
joe370
Guest
The Bible: How the Bible Was Written—proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the doctrine of sola scriptura (everyone using their bible alone as their sole authority) would have been impossible, at least until the 15th century.
Originally the Bible was written in “uncial” writing. This type of writing consists of capital letter with no connection between letters, no spaces between words and sentences, no periods or comas and no chapters or verses, e.g., GODISNOWHERE. Our modern writing would read: God is now here, or God is nowhere. So punctuation, etc., can be very important and translators have to be aware of that. As in the above example, the meaning can change, depending upon where the spaces and punctuation are placed. Uncial writing was popular until the A.D. 800’s. Next came “cursive” writing, ordinary handwriting with capital letters at the beginning of sentences, letters joined and spaces between words. This was popular from the A.D. 800’s until the invention of printing in 1450. From 405 through 1452, all Bibles were handwritten by monks in the Catholic monasteries. The materials used were:
In each monastery there was usually one large room, called a Scriptorium, or a few smaller rooms, set aside especially for the copying of the Bible. These rooms were built so that they would have all the best possible natural light, thus enabling the monks to work at the task for as many daylight hours as possible. The monks worked in privacy, since copying was such an intense task. Usually, only the monk (scribe) and the superior could enter the scriptorium. Sometimes a group of monks would sit, patiently writing down the text of the Bible as it was read to them by another monk. In this way, several copies would be made at the same time. Lamps, or candles, were seldom used because of the danger of fire. The rooms were not heated so it made the work very difficult in cold weather. When a monk had finished copying one page, he gave it to another monk to check for accuracy. The latter gave it to another monk for decoration, if that were the plan. One of the most beautifully decorated handwritten books done by monks is the Book of Kells. It dates from the 7th or 8th centuries, and can be seen at Trinity College, Dublin. It is a manuscript of the Four Gospels.
Many examples of the Bible, or parts of the Bible, can be seen in museums all over the world. The art work is exquisite with different colors of ink used. These are priceless treasures today. Many covers of the Bibles were made of silver or gold. Precious jewels were also attached to the covers. The Bible was often chained to pulpits so that all people could use them, much like today’s telephone books in telephone booths, but at the same time, one could not steal them. Scarcely anyone owned a Bible because it was so expensive and few could read. In the Middle Ages it would take a monk approximately 10 months to copy a Bible in handwriting. The cost would have been about $5000 then, or $150,000 to $200,0000 in today’s money.
The division of the Bible into chapters was a result of work done by Stephen Langton (d. 1227), who later became the Archbishop of Canterbury. Father Santes Pagninus, a Dominican priest, divided the Old Testament chapters into verses in 1528, and Robert Estienne, a printer in Paris, did the same for the New Testament in 1551.
Printing was invented by Johann Gutenberg in 1450. Before this, the use of paper was being perfected. This revolutionized the copying of the Bible. Once type was set, accuracy was guaranteed (thus removing the human errors sometimes made by the monks in copying by hand), and the printing was fast. The first book printed was the Bible. It is called “The Mazarin Bible” which was printed at Mayence in 1452, at the request of Cardinal Mazarin. By 1522, the Catholic Church had sponsored the printing of 626 editions of the Bible in different languages. Among them were 14 complete editions in High German, 5 complete editions in Low German, 11 Italian editions, 10 French editions, 2 Bohemian editions, 1 Spanish edition, 1 Flemish edition, and 1 Russian edition. Martin Luther translated the New Testament into German in 1522, the Old Testament in 1534.
Originally the Bible was written in “uncial” writing. This type of writing consists of capital letter with no connection between letters, no spaces between words and sentences, no periods or comas and no chapters or verses, e.g., GODISNOWHERE. Our modern writing would read: God is now here, or God is nowhere. So punctuation, etc., can be very important and translators have to be aware of that. As in the above example, the meaning can change, depending upon where the spaces and punctuation are placed. Uncial writing was popular until the A.D. 800’s. Next came “cursive” writing, ordinary handwriting with capital letters at the beginning of sentences, letters joined and spaces between words. This was popular from the A.D. 800’s until the invention of printing in 1450. From 405 through 1452, all Bibles were handwritten by monks in the Catholic monasteries. The materials used were:
- Papyrus (from which we get the name paper) was made from a reed growing on the banks of the Nile River. The reed was cut into strips, glued together and joined into scrolls as long as 35 feet. The pen used was a reed.
- Skins of animals (a) the skin of sheep or goats, called parchment, and (b) the skin of young calves, called vellum. A metal pen or stylus was used to write, and the ink was a combination of soot mixed with gum.
In each monastery there was usually one large room, called a Scriptorium, or a few smaller rooms, set aside especially for the copying of the Bible. These rooms were built so that they would have all the best possible natural light, thus enabling the monks to work at the task for as many daylight hours as possible. The monks worked in privacy, since copying was such an intense task. Usually, only the monk (scribe) and the superior could enter the scriptorium. Sometimes a group of monks would sit, patiently writing down the text of the Bible as it was read to them by another monk. In this way, several copies would be made at the same time. Lamps, or candles, were seldom used because of the danger of fire. The rooms were not heated so it made the work very difficult in cold weather. When a monk had finished copying one page, he gave it to another monk to check for accuracy. The latter gave it to another monk for decoration, if that were the plan. One of the most beautifully decorated handwritten books done by monks is the Book of Kells. It dates from the 7th or 8th centuries, and can be seen at Trinity College, Dublin. It is a manuscript of the Four Gospels.
Many examples of the Bible, or parts of the Bible, can be seen in museums all over the world. The art work is exquisite with different colors of ink used. These are priceless treasures today. Many covers of the Bibles were made of silver or gold. Precious jewels were also attached to the covers. The Bible was often chained to pulpits so that all people could use them, much like today’s telephone books in telephone booths, but at the same time, one could not steal them. Scarcely anyone owned a Bible because it was so expensive and few could read. In the Middle Ages it would take a monk approximately 10 months to copy a Bible in handwriting. The cost would have been about $5000 then, or $150,000 to $200,0000 in today’s money.
The division of the Bible into chapters was a result of work done by Stephen Langton (d. 1227), who later became the Archbishop of Canterbury. Father Santes Pagninus, a Dominican priest, divided the Old Testament chapters into verses in 1528, and Robert Estienne, a printer in Paris, did the same for the New Testament in 1551.
Printing was invented by Johann Gutenberg in 1450. Before this, the use of paper was being perfected. This revolutionized the copying of the Bible. Once type was set, accuracy was guaranteed (thus removing the human errors sometimes made by the monks in copying by hand), and the printing was fast. The first book printed was the Bible. It is called “The Mazarin Bible” which was printed at Mayence in 1452, at the request of Cardinal Mazarin. By 1522, the Catholic Church had sponsored the printing of 626 editions of the Bible in different languages. Among them were 14 complete editions in High German, 5 complete editions in Low German, 11 Italian editions, 10 French editions, 2 Bohemian editions, 1 Spanish edition, 1 Flemish edition, and 1 Russian edition. Martin Luther translated the New Testament into German in 1522, the Old Testament in 1534.
J
JRKH
Guest
Please list the ones you have which are not on the list I linked to.
R
Ronald_E
Guest
WOW AND THANKS!!!
J
joe370
Guest
Here are some traditions which came right out of the Catholic Church and to which Protestants hold, as well as Catholics, and none of them are from the Bible:
*The Nicene Creed. Many Protestants say, “We believe in one, holy ‘Catholic’ and Apostolic Church”, which is right out of the Nicene Creed. Some try to avoid using the word “Catholic”, by substituting the word “Universal” instead, but it means the same thing.
*The word “Christmas”, which is “Christ’s-Mass”. How could anyone be more Catholic every time they say the word?
*The Writer of the Gospel of Matthew. A predominance of Christians acknowledge it was Matthew.
*The Writer of the Gospel of Mark. Almost all Christians say it was Mark.
*The Writer of the Gospel of Luke. Almost all Christians accept Luke.
*The Writer of the Gospel of John. Almost all Christians call him John.
*The End of Public Revelation when the Last Apostle died.
*The Gregorian Calendar, which we all use.
*The Date for Christmas, December 25, which all Christians acknowledge.
*The Date for Easter, which Catholics as well as Protestants recognize.
*The Date for Ash Wednesday, used by many Protestant denominations as well.
*The Ritual of receiving ashes on Ash Wednesday, now done by some Protestants.
*The Season of Advent.
*The Season of Lent.
*The Canon of the New Testament, which all Christian churches use.
*The Catholic Liturgical Calendar, which many Protestant denominations follow.
*The Praying of the Rosary, now done faithfully by a lot of Protestants.
*The Veneration of Saints, by some, all of whom were declared saints by the Catholic Church. You will not find Saint Peter, or Saint Paul, or Saint Matthew, or Saint Mark, or Saint Luke, or Saint John, worded as “Saints” in Holy Scripture. However, all Christians call these persons “Saint”.
How then, can Protestants ever say that Catholics should not hold the traditions when they hold so many Catholic traditions themselves?
*Then there are the first five books of the Old Testament, all written by Moses, who appeared for the first time in Exodus 2:2. How then could he write Genesis, except from Oral Traditions handed down from generation to generation? What about Saint Luke? He was one of the earliest converts. His name is first mentioned in Colossians 4:14. How then, did he manage to write his Gospel and the book of Acts, except by Oral Tradition? Read Luke 1:1-4. His prologue says, “…the Word HANDED DOWN TO US…”. What is that if not by oral tradition?
Where in the Bible does it say the Word is limited to what is written?
the Catholic Church teaches that Everything is NOT in the Bible. Many other Christian denominations teach that everything IS in the Bible even though the Bible itself does not say this.
“If it is not in the Bible, it simply does not exist or it is not true”, is what some have said.
However, the Bible itself does not, in any way, say that it is complete.
In fact it says there are many things which are NOT in it, and will be taught in some future time.
“Many things yet I have to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. But when He, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, has come, He will teach you all the truth. For He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He will hear He will speak, and THE THINGS THAT ARE TO COME HE WILL DECLARE TO YOU.”
John 16:12-13
Here are some more verses which say everything is NOT in the Bible:
Mark 4:33-34, 6:34, John 20:30-31, 21:25, 2Thessalonians 2:15.
Here are some of the things which Non-Catholics accept, yet are not to be found in the Bible.
*The word ‘Trinity’.
*The word ‘Incarnation’.
*The word ‘Bible’.
*The word ‘Protestant’.
*The Canon of the New Testament.
*The words ‘Sola Scriptura’.
*The false, man made doctrine of Sola Scriptura.
*The word ‘Rapture’.
*The word ‘Romish’.
*The age of accountability.
*Altar calls.
*The Nicene Creed. Many Protestants say, “We believe in one, holy ‘Catholic’ and Apostolic Church”, which is right out of the Nicene Creed. Some try to avoid using the word “Catholic”, by substituting the word “Universal” instead, but it means the same thing.
*The word “Christmas”, which is “Christ’s-Mass”. How could anyone be more Catholic every time they say the word?
*The Writer of the Gospel of Matthew. A predominance of Christians acknowledge it was Matthew.
*The Writer of the Gospel of Mark. Almost all Christians say it was Mark.
*The Writer of the Gospel of Luke. Almost all Christians accept Luke.
*The Writer of the Gospel of John. Almost all Christians call him John.
*The End of Public Revelation when the Last Apostle died.
*The Gregorian Calendar, which we all use.
*The Date for Christmas, December 25, which all Christians acknowledge.
*The Date for Easter, which Catholics as well as Protestants recognize.
*The Date for Ash Wednesday, used by many Protestant denominations as well.
*The Ritual of receiving ashes on Ash Wednesday, now done by some Protestants.
*The Season of Advent.
*The Season of Lent.
*The Canon of the New Testament, which all Christian churches use.
*The Catholic Liturgical Calendar, which many Protestant denominations follow.
*The Praying of the Rosary, now done faithfully by a lot of Protestants.
*The Veneration of Saints, by some, all of whom were declared saints by the Catholic Church. You will not find Saint Peter, or Saint Paul, or Saint Matthew, or Saint Mark, or Saint Luke, or Saint John, worded as “Saints” in Holy Scripture. However, all Christians call these persons “Saint”.
How then, can Protestants ever say that Catholics should not hold the traditions when they hold so many Catholic traditions themselves?
*Then there are the first five books of the Old Testament, all written by Moses, who appeared for the first time in Exodus 2:2. How then could he write Genesis, except from Oral Traditions handed down from generation to generation? What about Saint Luke? He was one of the earliest converts. His name is first mentioned in Colossians 4:14. How then, did he manage to write his Gospel and the book of Acts, except by Oral Tradition? Read Luke 1:1-4. His prologue says, “…the Word HANDED DOWN TO US…”. What is that if not by oral tradition?
Where in the Bible does it say the Word is limited to what is written?
the Catholic Church teaches that Everything is NOT in the Bible. Many other Christian denominations teach that everything IS in the Bible even though the Bible itself does not say this.
“If it is not in the Bible, it simply does not exist or it is not true”, is what some have said.
However, the Bible itself does not, in any way, say that it is complete.
In fact it says there are many things which are NOT in it, and will be taught in some future time.
“Many things yet I have to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. But when He, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, has come, He will teach you all the truth. For He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He will hear He will speak, and THE THINGS THAT ARE TO COME HE WILL DECLARE TO YOU.”
John 16:12-13
Here are some more verses which say everything is NOT in the Bible:
Mark 4:33-34, 6:34, John 20:30-31, 21:25, 2Thessalonians 2:15.
Here are some of the things which Non-Catholics accept, yet are not to be found in the Bible.
*The word ‘Trinity’.
*The word ‘Incarnation’.
*The word ‘Bible’.
*The word ‘Protestant’.
*The Canon of the New Testament.
*The words ‘Sola Scriptura’.
*The false, man made doctrine of Sola Scriptura.
*The word ‘Rapture’.
*The word ‘Romish’.
*The age of accountability.
*Altar calls.
J
joe370
Guest
A Blueprint For Finding The True Church…
Follow this blueprint and it will lead you to the one true Church…
Truth is ONE…
There can be only one Truth…
Truth Excludes Error…
Jesus Christ said, “I AM THE WAY, AND THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE.”
John 14:6
This must be true because He said it!
Jesus Christ said, “THOU ART PETER, AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH.” Matthew 16:18
Notice that He did not say Churches.
This must be true because He said it.
“…Just as Christ is head of the Church…” Eph 5:23
“…and Him He gave as head over all the Church, which is indeed His body…” Eph 1:22-23
Therefore if Jesus Christ is the head of His Church, then His Church has to be the Church of Truth, just as He is Truth!
This is confirmed in 1Timothy 3:15, “…but in order that thou mayest know, if I am delayed, how to conduct thyself in the House of GOD, which is the Church of the living GOD, the pillar and mainstay of the Truth.” Now that we have the Church of Truth, headed by Truth Himself, then we have recourse to use that authority of Truth without trepidation.
“…AND IF HE REFUSE TO HEAR THEM, APPEAL TO THE CHURCH, BUT IF HE REFUSE TO HEAR EVEN THE CHURCH, LET HIM BE TO THEE AS THE HEATHEN AND PUBLICAN.” Matthew 18:17
This must be true because He said it.
So Jesus Christ said those who refuse to hear His Church. let him be as a heathen (not Christian).
So now that we have the Church of Truth, how do we know it is still with us?
We know because Jesus Christ guaranteed it would be!
“…AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.” Matthew 16:17
His Church will be defended from within and from without.
“…I AM WITH YOU ALL DAYS, EVEN UNTO THE CONSUMMATION OF THE WORLD.” Matthew 28:20
He will be with His Church until the end of time.
“…AND I WILL ASK THE FATHER AND HE WILL GIVE YOU ANOTHER ADVOCATE TO DWELL WITH YOU FOREVER, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, BECAUSE IT NEITHER SEES HIM NOR KNOWS HIM.” John 14:16-17
The Holy Spirit will be with His Church until the end of time.
These three verses are truth because He said them.
To sum it all up:
There is only one truth, and it is Jesus Christ.
He founded the Church of Truth and He will be with it and defend it forever.
The Holy Spirit will dwell in His Church of Truth forever.
His Church is still with us because He guaranteed it would be.
Now you can make your choice as to which Church is the Church which Jesus Christ founded. The choices are few.
It has to be the one He founded in about 33 A.D., so it has been around for almost 2000 years. Is it your Church?
Follow this blueprint and it will lead you to the one true Church…
Truth is ONE…
There can be only one Truth…
Truth Excludes Error…
Jesus Christ said, “I AM THE WAY, AND THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE.”
John 14:6
This must be true because He said it!
Jesus Christ said, “THOU ART PETER, AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH.” Matthew 16:18
Notice that He did not say Churches.
This must be true because He said it.
“…Just as Christ is head of the Church…” Eph 5:23
“…and Him He gave as head over all the Church, which is indeed His body…” Eph 1:22-23
Therefore if Jesus Christ is the head of His Church, then His Church has to be the Church of Truth, just as He is Truth!
This is confirmed in 1Timothy 3:15, “…but in order that thou mayest know, if I am delayed, how to conduct thyself in the House of GOD, which is the Church of the living GOD, the pillar and mainstay of the Truth.” Now that we have the Church of Truth, headed by Truth Himself, then we have recourse to use that authority of Truth without trepidation.
“…AND IF HE REFUSE TO HEAR THEM, APPEAL TO THE CHURCH, BUT IF HE REFUSE TO HEAR EVEN THE CHURCH, LET HIM BE TO THEE AS THE HEATHEN AND PUBLICAN.” Matthew 18:17
This must be true because He said it.
So Jesus Christ said those who refuse to hear His Church. let him be as a heathen (not Christian).
So now that we have the Church of Truth, how do we know it is still with us?
We know because Jesus Christ guaranteed it would be!
“…AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.” Matthew 16:17
His Church will be defended from within and from without.
“…I AM WITH YOU ALL DAYS, EVEN UNTO THE CONSUMMATION OF THE WORLD.” Matthew 28:20
He will be with His Church until the end of time.
“…AND I WILL ASK THE FATHER AND HE WILL GIVE YOU ANOTHER ADVOCATE TO DWELL WITH YOU FOREVER, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, BECAUSE IT NEITHER SEES HIM NOR KNOWS HIM.” John 14:16-17
The Holy Spirit will be with His Church until the end of time.
These three verses are truth because He said them.
To sum it all up:
There is only one truth, and it is Jesus Christ.
He founded the Church of Truth and He will be with it and defend it forever.
The Holy Spirit will dwell in His Church of Truth forever.
His Church is still with us because He guaranteed it would be.
Now you can make your choice as to which Church is the Church which Jesus Christ founded. The choices are few.
It has to be the one He founded in about 33 A.D., so it has been around for almost 2000 years. Is it your Church?
A
abucs
Guest
Joe wrote :
“In the Middle Ages it would take a monk approximately 10 months to copy a Bible in handwriting.
The cost would have been about $5000 then, or $150,000 to $200,0000 in today’s money”.
Oh to be able to go back in time with a photocopier.
I suppose it would have to be a solar powered one though ?
Thanks for the info Joe.
“In the Middle Ages it would take a monk approximately 10 months to copy a Bible in handwriting.
The cost would have been about $5000 then, or $150,000 to $200,0000 in today’s money”.
Oh to be able to go back in time with a photocopier.
I suppose it would have to be a solar powered one though ?
Thanks for the info Joe.
W
wisdomseeker
Guest
Well done brother. but the problem is that protestanst believe that this describe their congrerations and not the CC.A Blueprint For Finding The True Church…
Follow this blueprint and it will lead you to the one true Church…
Truth is ONE…
There can be only one Truth…
Truth Excludes Error…
Jesus Christ said, “I AM THE WAY, AND THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE.”
John 14:6
This must be true because He said it!
Jesus Christ said, “THOU ART PETER, AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH.” Matthew 16:18
Notice that He did not say Churches.
This must be true because He said it.
“…Just as Christ is head of the Church…” Eph 5:23
“…and Him He gave as head over all the Church, which is indeed His body…” Eph 1:22-23
Therefore if Jesus Christ is the head of His Church, then His Church has to be the Church of Truth, just as He is Truth!
This is confirmed in 1Timothy 3:15, “…but in order that thou mayest know, if I am delayed, how to conduct thyself in the House of GOD, which is the Church of the living GOD, the pillar and mainstay of the Truth.” Now that we have the Church of Truth, headed by Truth Himself, then we have recourse to use that authority of Truth without trepidation.
“…AND IF HE REFUSE TO HEAR THEM, APPEAL TO THE CHURCH, BUT IF HE REFUSE TO HEAR EVEN THE CHURCH, LET HIM BE TO THEE AS THE HEATHEN AND PUBLICAN.” Matthew 18:17
This must be true because He said it.
So Jesus Christ said those who refuse to hear His Church. let him be as a heathen (not Christian).
So now that we have the Church of Truth, how do we know it is still with us?
We know because Jesus Christ guaranteed it would be!
“…AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.” Matthew 16:17
His Church will be defended from within and from without.
“…I AM WITH YOU ALL DAYS, EVEN UNTO THE CONSUMMATION OF THE WORLD.” Matthew 28:20
He will be with His Church until the end of time.
“…AND I WILL ASK THE FATHER AND HE WILL GIVE YOU ANOTHER ADVOCATE TO DWELL WITH YOU FOREVER, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, BECAUSE IT NEITHER SEES HIM NOR KNOWS HIM.” John 14:16-17
The Holy Spirit will be with His Church until the end of time.
These three verses are truth because He said them.
To sum it all up:
There is only one truth, and it is Jesus Christ.
He founded the Church of Truth and He will be with it and defend it forever.
The Holy Spirit will dwell in His Church of Truth forever.
His Church is still with us because He guaranteed it would be.
Now you can make your choice as to which Church is the Church which Jesus Christ founded. The choices are few.
It has to be the one He founded in about 33 A.D., so it has been around for almost 2000 years. Is it your Church?
:bowdown2:
M
mercygate
Guest
Could you please clarify the bolded part? Thanks.
J
JRKH
Guest
P
Protestant101
Guest
The Nicene Creed, (so called) is nothing short of the doctrine of spiritualism. Not all Protestants would support this “Creed.”
Another thing that is not found in the Bible is “catholic” or “Catholic” or “Roman Catholic.” You have proved nothing with all your long posts, and then to try and “use” Scripture to “prove” your point, saying how “not everything is in the Bible;” you mock the intended context of God’s Word. Anyone who knows the doctrine of “sola scriptura” correctly would know that it is not correct to say “the Bible has everyting in it;” regarding salvation; yet, it has to be recognized that the Bible has everything NECESSARY for our salvation. The same cannot be said for the APOCRYPHA.
If these is something outside the Bible which relates a Bible truth, then it would not contradict anything in the Bible; and you could then relax and go back to being a Protestant. That’s one thing we are right about. The Bible speaks for itself; and it says all that we need to know. The Apocrypha adds NOTHING that is essential, in addition to the Bible.
W
wisdomseeker
Guest
:tsktsk:
Let s see here.
catholics hear the Word of God and believe.
protestants read the Word and do not believe what they read.
:bowdown:
:crying: :crying: :tsktsk: :tsktsk:
Let s see here.
catholics hear the Word of God and believe.
protestants read the Word and do not believe what they read.
:bowdown:
J
JRKH
Guest
You know - it’s been a long trip around to the beginning here.
You believe that the Bible is the True, complete and inerrant Word of God.
Yet the Protestant Bible contains fiewer books than the Catholic Bible.
If The Bible is the True complete and innerrant Word of God, full and complete by itself, then there can only be one.
But there isn’t just One Holy Bible.
So how does one discern which is correct?
We must look at the pedigree. The historical evidence.
The Catholic Bible was assembled long before the Protestant Bible
The Catholic Bible canon was assembled by Councils of Church Leaders.
The Catholic Bible was passed down for a millenium unchanged.
The Protestant Canon was determined long after the Catholic Canon.
The Protestant Canon was determined by a single individual.
Which canon am I going to believe is the one which God inspired to be assembled?
Sorry my friend but I will work from the Full canon and not from the abridged version.
Perhaps, just perhaps, the fact that you have so many problems accepting the True Church stems from your inability to accept that someone stole books out of your Bible.
Peace
James
J
joe370
Guest
The Nicene Creed, (so called) is nothing short of the doctrine of spiritualism. Not all Protestants would support this “Creed.”
Given to us by the C.C.
Another thing that is not found in the Bible is “catholic” or “Catholic” or “Roman Catholic.”
**Not a problem!!! I don’t believe the “Fundamental tenant of the Reformation (sola scriptura) teaching that the whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for God’s glory, man’s salvation, faith and life is set down in Scripture!” **
You have proved nothing with all your long posts, and then to try and “use” Scripture to “prove” your point, saying how “not everything is in the Bible;”…
**I am not trying to prove anything to you. I am simply providing biblical reasons why I think the Bible is a product of the C.C. **
…you mock the intended context of God’s Word.
That’s just an outright lie and you know it, and so does everyone else at this thread! —**why so defensive? **
Anyone who knows the doctrine of “sola scriptura” correctly would know that it is not correct to say “the Bible has everyting in it;” regarding salvation;
**Not according to the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura: **
***Definitions of SOLA SCRIPTURA on the Web:
…yet, it has to be recognized that the Bible has everything NECESSARY for our salvation. The same can**not be said for the APOCRYPHA.Code:* Is a Latin phrase that means Scripture alone. Martin Luther and other reformers taught that Scripture, and only Scripture, was the final authority ... [www.fandm.edu/x13718.xml](www.fandm.edu/x13718.xml)*** * Latin for “Scripture alone”. Fundamental tenant of the Reformation teaching that the whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for God’s glory, man’s salvation, faith and life is set down in Scripture (see 2 Timothy 3:14-17; Hebrews 1-6). christchurchreformed.com/Whoweare/Definitions.htm * Scripture Alone. This was the fundamental point in dispute in the Protestant Reformation. It is taught in 2 Tim. 3:16-17; I Cor.4:6; Acts 17:11; Isa.8:20, etc. members.aol.com/rbiblech/MiscDoctrine/LatinTerms.htm * Latin for 'by Scripture alone,' is one of five important slogans of the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. It meant that Scripture is the Church's only infallible rule for deciding issues of faith and practices that involve doctrines. ... eternalpurpose.org.uk/glossary * Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by scripture alone") is the assertion that the Bible as God's written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter ("Scripture interprets Scripture"), and sufficient of itself to be the only source of Christian ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola scriptura
**Where in the Bible does it say, “the Bible has everything NECESSARY for our salvation.”??? If you want to follow in the footsteps of M.L. and reject 7 books from the bible that the 4th century C.C. canonized and codified along with the rest of the bible, and then reaffirmed and ratified these same books in the 16th century due to the heretical movement of the reformers —be my guest.
If these is something outside the Bible which relates a Bible truth, then it would not contradict anything in the Bible; and you could then relax and go back to being a Protestant. That’s one thing we are right about. The Bible speaks for itself; and it says all that we need to know. The Apocrypha adds NOTHING that is essential, in addition to the Bible.
I am quite relaxed now that I have found the Catholic Apostolic Church, the only church that can trace its lineage all the way back to the apostles and that was established by Jesus Christ, circa 33 A.D. Can you say that about you seventh day adventist church? Truth is not relative!!!There is only one truth, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life…" and it can be found in "the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth —the Mystical Body of Christ, which again, is the Church!!!
J
joe370
Guest
“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.” 1 Tim. 3:15
“And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.” Eph. 1:22-23
“And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.” 1Co 12:28
According to the Bible, the Church has everything NECESSARY for our salvation, and that includes the 46 books of the O.T. and the 27 books of the N.T.
“And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.” Eph. 1:22-23
“And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.” 1Co 12:28
According to the Bible, the Church has everything NECESSARY for our salvation, and that includes the 46 books of the O.T. and the 27 books of the N.T.
P
Protestant101
Guest
“According to the Bible” is just a meaningless ruse when it’s texts are twisted to the Catholic denominations dogmas like this. Can you please explain, for eg., where/how 1 Cor.12:28 tells us that any of the individuals mentioned has “everything necessary for our salvation?”“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.” 1 Tim. 3:15
“And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.” Eph. 1:22-23
"And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues." 1Co 12:28
According to the Bible, the Church has everything NECESSARY for our salvation, and that includes the 46 books of the O.T. and the 27 books of the N.T.
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