The bible is corrupt!

[tomshaikh]

Hi Blaine again.

There is no attempt on behalf of the Muslims to convince anyone that the Bible is corrupt. The question was, or at least I was under the impression that the questionw as why do Muslims believe it. And the answer is the Qur’an.

Muslims aren’t trying to convince Christians of anything, just because the Qur’an says so–the Qur’an is the proof FOR THE MUSLIMS.

Muslims believe in angels because the Qur’an so. Muslims believe in the Day of Judgment because the Qur’an says so. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet and Salih was a prophet and they believe in stories about Abraham because the Qur’an says so. And for the Muslim, that is enough proof.

Salaam Sister Amy, Please carry on from here, I want to be your disciple.just kidding heheheheh

 

[ZuzuBailey]

I beg to differ; that is a conversion tactic! I see it all the time on the INTERNET and in person. Maybe you have not seen it but many of us have!!
When I went to my local Musjid that was the first thing the Imam said! “the bible is corrupt”.
Either way I have seen no evidence on such a thing here, but I am constantly told it is! If I have learned anything it is that it is 100% more dependable than the quran.

Hi Blaine again.
There is no attempt on behalf of the Muslims to convince anyone that the Bible is corrupt. The question was, or at least I was under the impression that the questionw as why do Muslims believe it. And the answer is the Qur’an.

Muslims aren’t trying to convince Christians of anything, just because the Qur’an says so–the Qur’an is the proof FOR THE MUSLIMS.

Muslims believe in angels because the Qur’an so. Muslims believe in the Day of Judgment because the Qur’an says so. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet and Salih was a prophet and they believe in stories about Abraham because the Qur’an says so. And for the Muslim, that is enough proof.

 

[BlaineTog]

There is no attempt on behalf of the Muslims to convince anyone that the Bible is corrupt.

Then why did you say: “So you must prove the Qur’an to be inaccurate. Good luck with that one.”? This implies an argument on the subject, and the only honest reason to argue with someone is to convince them of something.

The question was, or at least I was under the impression that the questionw as why do Muslims believe it. And the answer is the Qur’an.

Yes, this is why I said, in my first post in this thread: “This is why your answer to the question of why Muslims believe the Bible to be inaccurate is unhelpful even if it’s true: because the question really wants to know what reasons Muslims can give for anyone else to think the Bible is inaccurate.”

Obviously the Quran is going to disagree with the Bible, and obvioust Muslims are going to go with the Quran’s idea of things rather than the Bible. This is practically a tautology.

 

[planten]

I beg to differ; that is a conversion tactic! I see it all the time on the INTERNET and in person. Maybe you have not seen it but many of us have!!
When I went to my local Musjid that was the first thing the Imam said! “the bible is corrupt”.
Either way I have seen no evidence on such a thing here, but I am constantly told it is! If I have learned anything it is that it is 100% more dependable than the quran.

**The problem is we must first understand the word “Bible”. The present bible is not a word of God. It is a descriptive of the life of Jesus, some of the things that he did and some of the things that he said. These are described by writers/ scribes or by eye witnesses etc. That is good enough. That is all the words of men only, not the words of God.

I am sure Jesus never dictated anything to be written and he did not leave any book. He however left his close friends who had seen him and his struggle. The Muslims believe that Jesus was a messenger of God and given the knowledge of the book Taurah and he was granted by God the book called Injeel (bible). That book was with him, inside him only. It never came out in the form of a book.

The present bible is not the word of God. It describes the teachings of Jesus. So it should be respected. It is like the Hadith with the Muslims. What is more, the Quran tells us that it no more contains what Jesus had been teaching. That is problem or the meaning of the corruption in the bible. The corruption means that the real teachings have been changed by mankind. That is all. The teachings of Jesus were not wrong.**

 

[Angelos]

The problem is we must first understand the word “Bible”. The present bible is not a word of God. It is a descriptive of the life of Jesus, some of the things that he did andspme of the things that he said. These are described by writers/ scribes or by eye witnesses etc. That is good enough. That is all the words of men only, not the words of God.

I suggest that you read your Koran before making fallacious comments about the Bible. (BTW You mistakenly think that the word Bible refers to the Gospels -NT- only!)

All the insufficient, fragmented, and superficial data in Mohammad’s Bible about Jesus deal with Jesus’ life and His words in the form of narratives! This is a natural outcome of Mohammad’s scribes’ having no access to the canonical Gospels of the time and mingling their personal comments about Christianity with prevalent stories derived from apocryphal Gospels. For instance, the long story concerning Jesus’ birth and prophetic ministry in chapter 3 is apparently taken from the infancy Gospel of Jacob.

**
I am sure Jesus never dictated anything to be written andhe did not leave anybook. He however left his close friends who had seen him and his struggle. The Muslims believe that Jesus was given the knowledge of the book Taurah and he was granted by God the book called Injeel (bible). That book was with him, inside him only. It never came out in the form of a book.**

Why is that? Why did Jesus have the book within Him only? Did He not want His apostles/disciples to put His so-called revelation named Gospel into a book for the sake of His message’s continuity? Did He fail to do so? Why? Sorry to say, believing in a deity that sends a book to his messenger so that people can be enlightened but fails to make people record it makes no sense to me!

**
The present bible is not the word of God. It describes the teachings of Jesus. So it should be respected. It is like the Hadith with the Muslims. What is more, the Quran tells us that it no more contains what Jesus had been teaching. That is problem or the meaning of the corruption in the bible. The corruption means that the real teachings have been changed by mankind. That is all. The teachings of Jesus were not wrong.**

This is what you always say because the present Bible contradicts your present Koran! Since you cannot put the blame on your messenger’s teachings, you choose to victimize Jewish-Christian Scripture. I agree with you that the Christian Bible was falsified: the falsification took place in Arabia in the 7th century.
The genuine Bible is with us Christians now whilst the corrupted version of the true Bible is with you Muslims.

Peace,
Angelos N. B.

 

[planten]

Why is that? Why did Jesus have the book within Him only? Did He not want His apostles/disciples to put His so-called revelation named Gospel into a book for the sake of His message’s continuity? Did He fail to do so? Why? Sorry to say, believing in a deity that sends a book to his messenger so that people can be enlightened but fails to make people record it makes no sense to me!

** I would not deny anything of the bible. You may be referring to the old testament. But let us remain with the Jesus testament that the chritians have today, the Jesus life history.
We know it and we can see it and read it too. Your post above, if only you could show me any words from the bible that Jesus told any one to write down something or Jesus told any one that it was a bible or a book then please present it.I will agree to that. But you have not shown any thing. You are talking but your book is quiet. I need something to that effect from your book please. I have no grudge against any one.**

 

[Angelos]

** I would not deny anything of the bible. You may be referring to the old testament. But let us remain with the Jesus testament that the chritians have today, the Jesus life history.
We know it and we can see it and read it too. Your post above, if only you could show me any words from the bible that Jesus told any one to write down something or Jesus told any one that it was a bible or a book then please present it.I will agree to that. But you have not shown any thing. You are talking but your book is quiet. I need something to that effect from your book please. I have no grudge against any one.**

It seems you are confusing my posts with someone else’s! Show me from my posts above please that I claim Jesus dictated something to any of His apostles/disciples or referred to a book while declaring the Good News. Actually and very interestingly, this is not the Christian concept of Gospel, which is totally different from the one in the Koran. None of the Gospels teach either explicitly or implicitly that Jesus had a special book revealed or inspired to Him.

Nevertheless, Jesus asks His apostles in the Gospels to preach His message (the Good News of the Kingdom) to the whole world:

Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

The Acts of the Apostles is full of evangelization narratives, the first of which begins on the day of Pentecost by Peter’s speech testifying to Jesus’ resurrection. After all, the word “apostle” is derived from the Greek verb “to send”, denoting the mission of proclaiming Jesus to everyone, a mission given by Jesus Himself:

** John 20:21-22** So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. Just as the Father has sent me, I also send you.” And after he said this, he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

BTW: Would you please show me a few verses from the Koran that talk of the so-called true Gospel’s distortion and the total loss of Jesus’ true message?

Peace,
Angelos N. B.

 

[planten]

I beg to differ; that is a conversion tactic! I see it all the time on the INTERNET and in person. Maybe you have not seen it but many of us have!!
When I went to my local Musjid that was the first thing the Imam said! “the bible is corrupt”.
Either way I have seen no evidence on such a thing here, but I am constantly told it is! If I have learned anything it is that it is 100% more dependable than the quran.

I have seen “my reminder”. It is not true in some way but practically it is true. Some nasty illitrate Muslims have said and even passed bad laws about death penulty for the apostates. But that is nowhere inthe Quran or in the life of the prophet,

I agree that the present day muslims,nearly all,believe that every apostate must be killed. i.e. any one who leaves Islam should be killed. They have passed laws in that respect and people are afraid to leave Islam. That is very bad understanding by the muslim bigots. There is no penalty for leaving Islam unless there is a war going on. Or some apostate may have killed some one in the process of reverting. Otherwise There is absolutely no punishment.

But of course I have to admit the ignorance of the narrow minded muslim religious leaders who believe that the apostate should be killed. that is bad. It will take a long time to get that bad idea out of their heads. It won’t be easy.

The Quran is very clear in that “There is no compulsion in religion”.(Verse 2:255) That means any religion, Islam or Judaism or christianity or Budhism. Every one is entitled to exercise free will in the choice of religion. I will post further proofs if necessary. But some proof is already there in that “my reminder” if read carefully. There are many other misconceptions in that “My reminder”.
I will mention only one now here. There is nothing abrogated in Quran. But again it is the muslim leaders who are to be blamed because they used to discuss this subject and believed that some verses were abrogated by other verses. That was all wrong.

 

[agangbern]

But of course I have to admit the ignorance of the narrow minded muslim religious leaders who believe that the apostate should be killed. that is bad. It will take a long time to get that bad idea out of their heads. It won’t be easy.

The Quran is very clear in that “There is no compulsion in religion”.(Verse 2:255) That means any religion, Islam or Judaism or christianity or Budhism. Every one is entitled to exercise free will in the choice of religion. I will post further proofs if necessary. But some proof is already there in that “my reminder” if read carefully. There are many other misconceptions in that “My reminder”.
I will mention only one now here. There is nothing abrogated in Quran. But again it is the muslim leaders who are to be blamed because they used to discuss this subject and believed that some verses were abrogated by other verses. That was all wrong.

In that case, I think you need to preach more and educate your fellow Muslims so that they would cease to be what you called “ignorance and narrow minded”.