The bickering stops here

[Eucharisted]

I am tired of the bickering I always hear when it comes to the Blessed Sacrament!

The Ordinary and Extraordinary Masses are two forms of the Mass; neither one is greater than the other, for the Holy Sacrifice is the Holy Sacrifice and God is God. The Holy Mass evolves since the sedar which Jesus ate with His Apostles as Mother Church purifies the Rite of liturgical abuses and makes it available to all people in light of her Catholicity. To say that one form of the Mass at some time is better than another form of the Mass at another time is stupid, because, every form of the Mass is imperfect, though the Sacrifice of Christ is perfect, and at every time in history Satan brings new abuses into the Divine Liturgy; so, rather than bickering over the Masses, we should rather be correcting abuses and keeping our gaze on our Lord, Jesus Christ, to whom and for whom we go to Mass. It is like with two churches, one bare and the other beautiful: God dose not care about the glory of a building but about the purity of our hearts, for we are the spiritual stones of the Church, and since the Holy Eucharist makes the Church, we ought to become Eucharist.

Reception of Holy Communion on the tongue or in the hand are both acceptable practices within Mother Church, so we her children should not bicker over which way is better or more correct, holier or more perfect. The Catholic Church has given to us both practices for the good of all people, and so, we should be thinking of all those people who, because of the two types of reception of Holy Communion, are able to received Our Lord. Now, of course, if people were receiving Jesus unworthily, or dishonorably, or mockingly, such as with a liturgical dance, than such a practice should not be tolerated but corrected as soon as possible and a good example set for all. But since neither the tongue nor the hand, both of which God fashioned for man, is abominable as far as Mother Church is concerned, than we should not see them as abominal but accept what the Lord has decreeded - even if we don’t agree with it. The Christian’s mind must be in tune with the Church’s mind, for the Church, the Body of Christ, which is animated by the Spirit of Christ, lives by the Mind of the same Christ, and all Christians are required to make their minds like His, and it is His Spirit which makes our minds like the Mind of Jesus Christ.

Should the Catholic Church abolish one form of the Mass or one way of receiving Holy Communion, than we must submit, for otherwise we will be disobedient children, and disobedient children dishonor their Mother and shame their Father. The Fourth Commandment, however, demands that we giving filial piety to our Mother and Father. And if we truly wish to see good changes in God’s Family, than we must pray for them. But bickering will not help - on the contrary, it weakens the Church’s oneness and unity and makes her more vulnerable to schisms, just as venial sin weakens the soul and makes it more vulnerable to mortal sin. Prayer strengthens the Church, and Jesus gives us the grace of prayer, just as charity stregthens the soul and Holy Communion stregthens charity in the soul.

 

[JReducation]

I am tired of the bickering I always hear when it comes to the Blessed Sacrament!

The Ordinary and Extraordinary Masses are two forms of the Mass; neither one is greater than the other, for the Holy Sacrifice is the Holy Sacrifice and God is God. The Holy Mass evolves since the sedar which Jesus ate with His Apostles as Mother Church purifies the Rite of liturgical abuses and makes it available to all people in light of her Catholicity. To say that one form of the Mass at some time is better than another form of the Mass at another time is stupid, because, every form of the Mass is imperfect, though the Sacrifice of Christ is perfect, and at every time in history Satan brings new abuses into the Divine Liturgy; so, rather than bickering over the Masses, we should rather be correcting abuses and keeping our gaze on our Lord, Jesus Christ, to whom and for whom we go to Mass. It is like with two churches, one bare and the other beautiful: God dose not care about the glory of a building but about the purity of our hearts, for we are the spiritual stones of the Church, and since the Holy Eucharist makes the Church, we ought to become Eucharist.

Reception of Holy Communion on the tongue or in the hand are both acceptable practices within Mother Church, so we her children should not bicker over which way is better or more correct, holier or more perfect. The Catholic Church has given to us both practices for the good of all people, and so, we should be thinking of all those people who, because of the two types of reception of Holy Communion, are able to received Our Lord. Now, of course, if people were receiving Jesus unworthily, or dishonorably, or mockingly, such as with a liturgical dance, than such a practice should not be tolerated but corrected as soon as possible and a good example set for all. But since neither the tongue nor the hand, both of which God fashioned for man, is abominable as far as Mother Church is concerned, than we should not see them as abominal but accept what the Lord has decreeded - even if we don’t agree with it. The Christian’s mind must be in tune with the Church’s mind, for the Church, the Body of Christ, which is animated by the Spirit of Christ, lives by the Mind of the same Christ, and all Christians are required to make their minds like His, and it is His Spirit which makes our minds like the Mind of Jesus Christ.

Should the Catholic Church abolish one form of the Mass or one way of receiving Holy Communion, than we must submit, for otherwise we will be disobedient children, and disobedient children dishonor their Mother and shame their Father. The Fourth Commandment, however, demands that we giving filial piety to our Mother and Father. And if we truly wish to see good changes in God’s Family, than we must pray for them. But bickering will not help - on the contrary, it weakens the Church’s oneness and unity and makes her more vulnerable to schisms, just as venial sin weakens the soul and makes it more vulnerable to mortal sin. Prayer strengthens the Church, and Jesus gives us the grace of prayer, just as charity stregthens the soul and Holy Communion stregthens charity in the soul.

Excellent!

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Angel_Bradford]

I am tired of the bickering I always hear when it comes to the Blessed Sacrament!

The Ordinary and Extraordinary Masses are two forms of the Mass; neither one is greater than the other, for the Holy Sacrifice is the Holy Sacrifice and God is God. The Holy Mass evolves since the sedar which Jesus ate with His Apostles as Mother Church purifies the Rite of liturgical abuses and makes it available to all people in light of her Catholicity. To say that one form of the Mass at some time is better than another form of the Mass at another time is stupid, because, every form of the Mass is imperfect, though the Sacrifice of Christ is perfect, and at every time in history Satan brings new abuses into the Divine Liturgy; so, rather than bickering over the Masses, we should rather be correcting abuses and keeping our gaze on our Lord, Jesus Christ, to whom and for whom we go to Mass. It is like with two churches, one bare and the other beautiful: God dose not care about the glory of a building but about the purity of our hearts, for we are the spiritual stones of the Church, and since the Holy Eucharist makes the Church, we ought to become Eucharist.

Reception of Holy Communion on the tongue or in the hand are both acceptable practices within Mother Church, so we her children should not bicker over which way is better or more correct, holier or more perfect. The Catholic Church has given to us both practices for the good of all people, and so, we should be thinking of all those people who, because of the two types of reception of Holy Communion, are able to received Our Lord. Now, of course, if people were receiving Jesus unworthily, or dishonorably, or mockingly, such as with a liturgical dance, than such a practice should not be tolerated but corrected as soon as possible and a good example set for all. But since neither the tongue nor the hand, both of which God fashioned for man, is abominable as far as Mother Church is concerned, than we should not see them as abominal but accept what the Lord has decreeded - even if we don’t agree with it. The Christian’s mind must be in tune with the Church’s mind, for the Church, the Body of Christ, which is animated by the Spirit of Christ, lives by the Mind of the same Christ, and all Christians are required to make their minds like His, and it is His Spirit which makes our minds like the Mind of Jesus Christ.

Should the Catholic Church abolish one form of the Mass or one way of receiving Holy Communion, than we must submit, for otherwise we will be disobedient children, and disobedient children dishonor their Mother and shame their Father. The Fourth Commandment, however, demands that we giving filial piety to our Mother and Father. And if we truly wish to see good changes in God’s Family, than we must pray for them. But bickering will not help - on the contrary, it weakens the Church’s oneness and unity and makes her more vulnerable to schisms, just as venial sin weakens the soul and makes it more vulnerable to mortal sin. Prayer strengthens the Church, and Jesus gives us the grace of prayer, just as charity stregthens the soul and Holy Communion stregthens charity in the soul.

I couldn’t agree more:clapping:

 

[Lycoming]

I am tired of the bickering I always hear when it comes to the Blessed Sacrament!

The Ordinary and Extraordinary Masses are two forms of the Mass; neither one is greater than the other, for the Holy Sacrifice is the Holy Sacrifice and God is God. The Holy Mass evolves since the sedar which Jesus ate with His Apostles as Mother Church purifies the Rite of liturgical abuses and makes it available to all people in light of her Catholicity. To say that one form of the Mass at some time is better than another form of the Mass at another time is stupid, because, every form of the Mass is imperfect, though the Sacrifice of Christ is perfect, and at every time in history Satan brings new abuses into the Divine Liturgy; so, rather than bickering over the Masses, we should rather be correcting abuses and keeping our gaze on our Lord, Jesus Christ, to whom and for whom we go to Mass. It is like with two churches, one bare and the other beautiful: God dose not care about the glory of a building but about the purity of our hearts, for we are the spiritual stones of the Church, and since the Holy Eucharist makes the Church, we ought to become Eucharist.

Reception of Holy Communion on the tongue or in the hand are both acceptable practices within Mother Church, so we her children should not bicker over which way is better or more correct, holier or more perfect. The Catholic Church has given to us both practices for the good of all people, and so, we should be thinking of all those people who, because of the two types of reception of Holy Communion, are able to received Our Lord. Now, of course, if people were receiving Jesus unworthily, or dishonorably, or mockingly, such as with a liturgical dance, than such a practice should not be tolerated but corrected as soon as possible and a good example set for all. But since neither the tongue nor the hand, both of which God fashioned for man, is abominable as far as Mother Church is concerned, than we should not see them as abominal but accept what the Lord has decreeded - even if we don’t agree with it. The Christian’s mind must be in tune with the Church’s mind, for the Church, the Body of Christ, which is animated by the Spirit of Christ, lives by the Mind of the same Christ, and all Christians are required to make their minds like His, and it is His Spirit which makes our minds like the Mind of Jesus Christ.

Should the Catholic Church abolish one form of the Mass or one way of receiving Holy Communion, than we must submit, for otherwise we will be disobedient children, and disobedient children dishonor their Mother and shame their Father. The Fourth Commandment, however, demands that we giving filial piety to our Mother and Father. And if we truly wish to see good changes in God’s Family, than we must pray for them. But bickering will not help - on the contrary, it weakens the Church’s oneness and unity and makes her more vulnerable to schisms, just as venial sin weakens the soul and makes it more vulnerable to mortal sin. Prayer strengthens the Church, and Jesus gives us the grace of prayer, just as charity stregthens the soul and Holy Communion stregthens charity in the soul.

Yes!

Sometimes I think those that cause division in the Church by the means you mentioned (watch for example those that for some reason will feel they must comment on the applicability of the communion-in-hand indult being restricted to specific nations) have no idea that in reality they are doing Satan’s work and not God’s work.

 

[Cat]

I am tired of the bickering I always hear when it comes to the Blessed Sacrament!

The Ordinary and Extraordinary Masses are two forms of the Mass; neither one is greater than the other, for the Holy Sacrifice is the Holy Sacrifice and God is God. The Holy Mass evolves since the sedar which Jesus ate with His Apostles as Mother Church purifies the Rite of liturgical abuses and makes it available to all people in light of her Catholicity. To say that one form of the Mass at some time is better than another form of the Mass at another time is stupid, because, every form of the Mass is imperfect, though the Sacrifice of Christ is perfect, and at every time in history Satan brings new abuses into the Divine Liturgy; so, rather than bickering over the Masses, we should rather be correcting abuses and keeping our gaze on our Lord, Jesus Christ, to whom and for whom we go to Mass. It is like with two churches, one bare and the other beautiful: God dose not care about the glory of a building but about the purity of our hearts, for we are the spiritual stones of the Church, and since the Holy Eucharist makes the Church, we ought to become Eucharist.

Reception of Holy Communion on the tongue or in the hand are both acceptable practices within Mother Church, so we her children should not bicker over which way is better or more correct, holier or more perfect. The Catholic Church has given to us both practices for the good of all people, and so, we should be thinking of all those people who, because of the two types of reception of Holy Communion, are able to received Our Lord. Now, of course, if people were receiving Jesus unworthily, or dishonorably, or mockingly, such as with a liturgical dance, than such a practice should not be tolerated but corrected as soon as possible and a good example set for all. But since neither the tongue nor the hand, both of which God fashioned for man, is abominable as far as Mother Church is concerned, than we should not see them as abominal but accept what the Lord has decreeded - even if we don’t agree with it. The Christian’s mind must be in tune with the Church’s mind, for the Church, the Body of Christ, which is animated by the Spirit of Christ, lives by the Mind of the same Christ, and all Christians are required to make their minds like His, and it is His Spirit which makes our minds like the Mind of Jesus Christ.

Should the Catholic Church abolish one form of the Mass or one way of receiving Holy Communion, than we must submit, for otherwise we will be disobedient children, and disobedient children dishonor their Mother and shame their Father. The Fourth Commandment, however, demands that we giving filial piety to our Mother and Father. And if we truly wish to see good changes in God’s Family, than we must pray for them. But bickering will not help - on the contrary, it weakens the Church’s oneness and unity and makes her more vulnerable to schisms, just as venial sin weakens the soul and makes it more vulnerable to mortal sin. Prayer strengthens the Church, and Jesus gives us the grace of prayer, just as charity stregthens the soul and Holy Communion stregthens charity in the soul.

Thank you. Wonderful words!

 

[thevickinator16]

I am tired of the bickering I always hear when it comes to the Blessed Sacrament!

The Ordinary and Extraordinary Masses are two forms of the Mass; neither one is greater than the other, for the Holy Sacrifice is the Holy Sacrifice and God is God. The Holy Mass evolves since the sedar which Jesus ate with His Apostles as Mother Church purifies the Rite of liturgical abuses and makes it available to all people in light of her Catholicity. To say that one form of the Mass at some time is better than another form of the Mass at another time is stupid, because, every form of the Mass is imperfect, though the Sacrifice of Christ is perfect, and at every time in history Satan brings new abuses into the Divine Liturgy; so, rather than bickering over the Masses, we should rather be correcting abuses and keeping our gaze on our Lord, Jesus Christ, to whom and for whom we go to Mass. It is like with two churches, one bare and the other beautiful: God dose not care about the glory of a building but about the purity of our hearts, for we are the spiritual stones of the Church, and since the Holy Eucharist makes the Church, we ought to become Eucharist.

Reception of Holy Communion on the tongue or in the hand are both acceptable practices within Mother Church, so we her children should not bicker over which way is better or more correct, holier or more perfect. The Catholic Church has given to us both practices for the good of all people, and so, we should be thinking of all those people who, because of the two types of reception of Holy Communion, are able to received Our Lord. Now, of course, if people were receiving Jesus unworthily, or dishonorably, or mockingly, such as with a liturgical dance, than such a practice should not be tolerated but corrected as soon as possible and a good example set for all. But since neither the tongue nor the hand, both of which God fashioned for man, is abominable as far as Mother Church is concerned, than we should not see them as abominal but accept what the Lord has decreeded - even if we don’t agree with it. The Christian’s mind must be in tune with the Church’s mind, for the Church, the Body of Christ, which is animated by the Spirit of Christ, lives by the Mind of the same Christ, and all Christians are required to make their minds like His, and it is His Spirit which makes our minds like the Mind of Jesus Christ.

Should the Catholic Church abolish one form of the Mass or one way of receiving Holy Communion, than we must submit, for otherwise we will be disobedient children, and disobedient children dishonor their Mother and shame their Father. The Fourth Commandment, however, demands that we giving filial piety to our Mother and Father. And if we truly wish to see good changes in God’s Family, than we must pray for them. But bickering will not help - on the contrary, it weakens the Church’s oneness and unity and makes her more vulnerable to schisms, just as venial sin weakens the soul and makes it more vulnerable to mortal sin. Prayer strengthens the Church, and Jesus gives us the grace of prayer, just as charity stregthens the soul and Holy Communion stregthens charity in the soul.

Wish I would have said that!

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

I’m tired of the bickering, full stop, close quotes, end of story.

 

[centurionguard]

I am tired of the bickering I always hear when it comes to the Blessed Sacrament!

The Ordinary and Extraordinary Masses are two forms of the Mass; neither one is greater than the other, for the Holy Sacrifice is the Holy Sacrifice and God is God. The Holy Mass evolves since the sedar which Jesus ate with His Apostles as Mother Church purifies the Rite of liturgical abuses and makes it available to all people in light of her Catholicity. To say that one form of the Mass at some time is better than another form of the Mass at another time is stupid, because, every form of the Mass is imperfect, though the Sacrifice of Christ is perfect, and at every time in history Satan brings new abuses into the Divine Liturgy; so, rather than bickering over the Masses, we should rather be correcting abuses and keeping our gaze on our Lord, Jesus Christ, to whom and for whom we go to Mass. It is like with two churches, one bare and the other beautiful: God dose not care about the glory of a building but about the purity of our hearts, for we are the spiritual stones of the Church, and since the Holy Eucharist makes the Church, we ought to become Eucharist.

Reception of Holy Communion on the tongue or in the hand are both acceptable practices within Mother Church, so we her children should not bicker over which way is better or more correct, holier or more perfect. The Catholic Church has given to us both practices for the good of all people, and so, we should be thinking of all those people who, because of the two types of reception of Holy Communion, are able to received Our Lord. Now, of course, if people were receiving Jesus unworthily, or dishonorably, or mockingly, such as with a liturgical dance, than such a practice should not be tolerated but corrected as soon as possible and a good example set for all. But since neither the tongue nor the hand, both of which God fashioned for man, is abominable as far as Mother Church is concerned, than we should not see them as abominal but accept what the Lord has decreeded - even if we don’t agree with it. The Christian’s mind must be in tune with the Church’s mind, for the Church, the Body of Christ, which is animated by the Spirit of Christ, lives by the Mind of the same Christ, and all Christians are required to make their minds like His, and it is His Spirit which makes our minds like the Mind of Jesus Christ.

Should the Catholic Church abolish one form of the Mass or one way of receiving Holy Communion, than we must submit, for otherwise we will be disobedient children, and disobedient children dishonor their Mother and shame their Father. The Fourth Commandment, however, demands that we giving filial piety to our Mother and Father. And if we truly wish to see good changes in God’s Family, than we must pray for them. But bickering will not help - on the contrary, it weakens the Church’s oneness and unity and makes her more vulnerable to schisms, just as venial sin weakens the soul and makes it more vulnerable to mortal sin. Prayer strengthens the Church, and Jesus gives us the grace of prayer, just as charity stregthens the soul and Holy Communion stregthens charity in the soul.

No disrespect to your viewpoints but I think there are a lot of Catholics here at C.A.F. who would argue with a number of points that you state alluding that Catholics of good conscious should idly and passively accept every liturgical abuse and blasphemous action that occurs in the liturgy of the Church. Sorry; and I hope my merciful God does not strike me down but I’m not the passive type.
I have “never” liked the Novus Ordo Mass…or at least the shamble liturgical state it is in today. Even though I must remain obedient to my Catholic faith in every respect. I often wonder how Jesus would (“clean”) His Church today much the same way He went into the temple with a whip during His physical time on earth. Yes; there are still money-changers (“clergy and laity”) in the church today who would see fit to alter the Church into their own self-righteous thinking…Not as the Heavenly Father would want to see humble respect and (((“TRUE”))) Love shown to His Only Begotten Beloved Son Jesus our Saviour.

Christ Is The Head Of His Church
He Is The Unseen Guest At Every Eucharistic Sacrifice
He Is The Silent Listener To Every Conversation

 

[Lycoming]

“…alluding that Catholics of good conscious should idly and passively accept every liturgical abuse and blasphemous action that occurs in the liturgy of the Church…”

The OP made no such suggestion. The fact that you suggest he did is part of the problem.

In fact he said all abuses should be fixed.

 

[Lycoming]

No disrespect to your viewpoints but I think there are a lot of Catholics here at C.A.F. who would argue with a number of points that you state alluding that Catholics of good conscious should idly and passively accept every liturgical abuse and blasphemous action that occurs in the liturgy of the Church. Sorry; and I hope my merciful God does not strike me down but I’m not the passive type.
I have “never” liked the Novus Ordo Mass…or at least the shamble liturgical state it is in today. Even though I must remain obedient to my Catholic faith in every respect. I often wonder how Jesus would (“clean”) His Church today much the same way He went into the temple with a whip during His physical time on earth. Yes; there are still money-changers (“clergy and laity”) in the church today who would see fit to alter the Church into their own self-righteous thinking…Not as the Heavenly Father would want to see humble respect and (((“TRUE”))) Love shown to His Only Begotten Beloved Son Jesus our Saviour.

Christ Is The Head Of His Church
He Is The Unseen Guest At Every Eucharistic Sacrifice
He Is The Silent Listener To Every Conversation

:nope:

 

[BSHoop96]

No disrespect to your viewpoints but I think there are a lot of Catholics here at C.A.F. who would argue with a number of points that you state alluding that Catholics of good conscious should idly and passively accept every liturgical abuse and blasphemous action that occurs in the liturgy of the Church. Sorry; and I hope my merciful God does not strike me down but I’m not the passive type.
I have “never” liked the Novus Ordo Mass…or at least the shamble liturgical state it is in today. Even though I must remain obedient to my Catholic faith in every respect. I often wonder how Jesus would (“clean”) His Church today much the same way He went into the temple with a whip during His physical time on earth. Yes; there are still money-changers (“clergy and laity”) in the church today who would see fit to alter the Church into their own self-righteous thinking…Not as the Heavenly Father would want to see humble respect and (((“TRUE”))) Love shown to His Only Begotten Beloved Son Jesus our Saviour.

Christ Is The Head Of His Church
He Is The Unseen Guest At Every Eucharistic Sacrifice
He Is The Silent Listener To Every Conversation

Good grief! I hate to do what the OP is talking about…bickering…but really you cannot have read her post very closely to have made such a leap as that. Let me refresh your memory here with what she actually said:

and at every time in history Satan brings new abuses into the Divine Liturgy; so, rather than bickering over the Masses, we should rather be correcting abuses

I think her very good point is, at this time, communion in the hand is acceptable and so is the Novus Ordo Mass regardless of whether some Catholics have “never liked it.” Granted there have been some things done in the so-called “spirit of Vatican II” that were not intended but thankfullying the pendulum is swinging back the other way. But it’s not for you to decide. Let the Pope handle it.

 

[Lepanto]

Yes!

Sometimes I think those that cause division in the Church by the means you mentioned (watch for example those that for some reason will feel they must comment on the applicability of the communion-in-hand indult being restricted to specific nations) have no idea that in reality they are doing Satan’s work and not God’s work.

OK, so you are saying that those who do not agree with you or the OP on every little detail are Satan’s coworkers? Such incredible hubris.

But at least you’re not comparing them to Hitler.

This is a discussion forum. People come here to discuss things, not to get shut-out.

 

[thevickinator16]

I wonder what God thinks of this?

 

[thevickinator16]

Jesus is crying again! God asked only for Love and Glory and Obedience. Look into your hearts and ask yourself what is most important. How we praise Him or howearnstly we mean it. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out what God truly wants. He wants our hearts, mind and body, not dissention among His flock on the best way to honor Him. If everyone were as concerned about what their individual offering was, then which type of Mass would be unimportant. I have been a Catholic all my life. Only recently have I truly understood what the real message was. I understand that the Catholic Church uses set formats so the devil can not misconstruct anything said by our priests. With each culture there are different Masses. Within each parish, priests give their own slant on the Mass. Do you trust God? He would not permit Masses to go on if they were not for the greater glory of His Name. If you do not like a Mass and how it is performed in the Catholic Church, don’t go. That is the bottom line.

Are these Masses making anyone go to hell? I think not. Jesus said when 2 or more join together, He is there. Is that not enough? Do you think He likes this bickering among His chosen people? Rather, pray for yourselves and the state of the world. You do not realize evidently just how much we should be praying instead of bickering over how Mass should be.

We should be praying for forgiveness instead of bickering.

Our Father, who art in Heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name,
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from EVIL. Amen!!!

 

[Lycoming]

OK, so you are saying that those who do not agree with you or the OP on every little detail are Satan’s coworkers? Such incredible hubris.

But at least you’re not comparing them to Hitler.

This is a discussion forum. People come here to discuss things, not to get shut-out.

Talk about hurbis!

What’s the flow for most conversations the OP is talking about?

Person get upset because they are exposed to what they perceive to be a “liturgical abuse” —> They come here to vent. —> Individuals offer their personal interpretations of the GIRM, RS and select other documents. —> Inevitably the rants begin about the “NO Mass”, communion-in-hand and Cardinal Mahony. If we’re lucky we’ll get a URL for a “clown Mass” on Youtube —> We’re reminded that RS directs us to bring all abuses to the attention of the Holy See, replete with a mailing address.

No wonder some people people bicker here. They probably aren’t taken too seriously in the real world.

So rarely do such conversations talk about the need for prayer. When was the last time I read where someone complaining of a “liturgical abuse” took their pastor to lunch or dinner to discuss a potential problem? Yes, I know I can already hear the excuses but could the real problem be a lack of communication skills by the concerned party?

In my own parish I have heard rants about the “NO Mass” and communion in hand. Many many times and each time it was the work of Satan. Satan just loves division.

Divide and conquer!

Hubris? Right.

 

[Lycoming]

I wonder what God thinks of this?

I would think God views the OP as trying to bring some perspective to something that causes division.

 

[Lepanto]

Whereas other threads are discussions by sincere people about actual topics, this thread from the start has been nothing but pointless bickering. :slapfight:

 

[Tsuwano]

I am tired of the bickering I always hear when it comes to the Blessed Sacrament!

The Ordinary and Extraordinary Masses are two forms of the Mass; neither one is greater than the other, for the Holy Sacrifice is the Holy Sacrifice and God is God. The Holy Mass evolves since the sedar which Jesus ate with His Apostles as Mother Church purifies the Rite of liturgical abuses and makes it available to all people in light of her Catholicity. To say that one form of the Mass at some time is better than another form of the Mass at another time is stupid, because, every form of the Mass is imperfect, though the Sacrifice of Christ is perfect, and at every time in history Satan brings new abuses into the Divine Liturgy; so, rather than bickering over the Masses, we should rather be correcting abuses and keeping our gaze on our Lord, Jesus Christ, to whom and for whom we go to Mass. It is like with two churches, one bare and the other beautiful: God dose not care about the glory of a building but about the purity of our hearts, for we are the spiritual stones of the Church, and since the Holy Eucharist makes the Church, we ought to become Eucharist.

Reception of Holy Communion on the tongue or in the hand are both acceptable practices within Mother Church, so we her children should not bicker over which way is better or more correct, holier or more perfect. The Catholic Church has given to us both practices for the good of all people, and so, we should be thinking of all those people who, because of the two types of reception of Holy Communion, are able to received Our Lord. Now, of course, if people were receiving Jesus unworthily, or dishonorably, or mockingly, such as with a liturgical dance, than such a practice should not be tolerated but corrected as soon as possible and a good example set for all. But since neither the tongue nor the hand, both of which God fashioned for man, is abominable as far as Mother Church is concerned, than we should not see them as abominal but accept what the Lord has decreeded - even if we don’t agree with it. The Christian’s mind must be in tune with the Church’s mind, for the Church, the Body of Christ, which is animated by the Spirit of Christ, lives by the Mind of the same Christ, and all Christians are required to make their minds like His, and it is His Spirit which makes our minds like the Mind of Jesus Christ.

Should the Catholic Church abolish one form of the Mass or one way of receiving Holy Communion, than we must submit, for otherwise we will be disobedient children, and disobedient children dishonor their Mother and shame their Father. The Fourth Commandment, however, demands that we giving filial piety to our Mother and Father. And if we truly wish to see good changes in God’s Family, than we must pray for them. But bickering will not help - on the contrary, it weakens the Church’s oneness and unity and makes her more vulnerable to schisms, just as venial sin weakens the soul and makes it more vulnerable to mortal sin. Prayer strengthens the Church, and Jesus gives us the grace of prayer, just as charity stregthens the soul and Holy Communion stregthens charity in the soul.

I agree with all you’ve written here.

 

[thevickinator16]

I would think God views the OP as trying to bring some perspective to something that causes division.

Dear Jesus, we seem to be on the edge of destruction within our own memebers. Only you who know the motives of Your priests, save us from dissention within ourselves. I know this to be the devil’s work. We are so ignorant of yourselves, please save us! If we are to suffer from abuse from our own members, save us. Let us not be the judge, for you are the Just Judge, only let us discern what is best for us! Oh Jesus, you are the Redeemder, You who created our first Mass. If there is a type of Mass which truly hurts you, please favor us by Your Divine Inspirations to stop! You, who invested us in the Sacrement of the Eurcharist, please save us from wrongful doings! Please do not let this become an abstacle in our paths to salvation! Oh Jesus, only You can save us and stop the dissention within You Holy Church. Forgive us, dear Jesus, we are only trying to find our way to the greater glory of your Father! Amen!

 

[JReducation]

I believe that any rational person understands the concerns of the posters on these threads as they concern the celebration of the Eucharist. Only those who are blind or indifferent (not sure if there is a difference) would fail to notice that abuses and other silliness have creeped into the celebration of the liturgy. We have to correct them and the Church wants them corrected.

That being said, we must also reflect and pray on the words of the Motu Proprio. The Holy Father goes to great lengths to remind Catholics that the Extraordinary Form and the Ordinary Form of the mass are equal in holiness. If they are equal in holiness, then they are equal in dignity and in efficaciousness. Christ’s sacrfice is truly present. He is truly present in his body and blood. The universal Church is truly present.

These are mysteries that are beyond the grasp of any abuse or novelty, because the truth about God, redemption and the Church cannot be undone by human weakness. Human weakness can certainly obscure our view of the truth, but it cannot destroy it or alter it.

The point made by the OP is a very valid one. On these forums much energy is spent in debates about which form of the mass is better. The question has only one answer, if we believe what the Holy Father has written and his wishes to preserve both forms. Both forms of the mass are equal. There is no better or worse.

We may have a preference for one over the other. The Church is cognizant of this and wishes to accommodate those who do have such preferences. But the Church does not want is the faithful divided over the celebration of the Eucharist.

In every period of Church history there have been conditions and issues that have needed to be addresseed and corrected. But truth never needs correction, only the way that we communicate it or fail to do so. The truth present in the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form of the mass is the same today as it was on Holy Thursday at the Last Supper.

The Holy Father is so convinced of this that he includes one directive in the Motu Proprio concerning the use of the Extraordinary Form during the Easter Triduum. It is is not to be universally used during the most high holy days of Christianity.

Again, he speaks about priests who belong to religious communities. While secular priests may celebrate the Extraordinary Form at any time, priests who are religious must follow the rules of their major superiors and the statutes of their religious institutes.

If the Ordinary Form were a less holy form of the mass or different in its value, there would be no such indicators concerning the Easter triduum or religious. The Extraordinary Form would be the norm for the universal Church.

The point regarding religious is very important. The reason this was put into the Motu Proprio was to protect the religious from divisions among them regarding the form of the mass for their communities and their ministries.

Observe the Holy Father’s desire to unite through the mass, not to divide. We need to follow the example and recognize that the two forms of the mass are the same rite. They are not different rites. Pope Benedict makes this quite clear. To say they are different rites is dividing the Western Church. We must commit to supporting the study of liturgy in our parishes and religious education programs so that they may be beautiful and reflect the depth of the truth that the liturgy celebrates. We must commit to tolerance. Whether we’re speaking of the EF or the OF, we must be tolerant with what the Church allows and humble about what she does not allow. We do not have to like it. We just have to admit that it is part of our Catholic Church.

All of this calls for an interior reform within each of us. We must reform the way that we react and respond to what we like and don’t like, so that our responses do not add to division. They should be helpful, not antagonistic, no matter what form of the liturgy one prefers.

Fraternally,

JR