The Big Lie

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If God can make a sinless Mary from the sinful tainted flesh of Joachin and Anna, why is it that He could not do the same for Himself?

To me that doesn’t really make any sense and I will not say it couldn’t be done.
He could have, of course. He could have done anything. He could have sprung full grown out of the ground!

But He chose to take flesh from Mary, so He could be the earthly Son of David. He knew that all this controversy about His identity would occur. He left witness that He came from her womb - and not just passing through it, but from her own seed.
 
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We don't hold Luther up on a pedestal and hang on every word that he said or wrote, he was after all both a saint and a sinner like us all, I forgot Catholics don't at saints like we do.
I really don’t know how Lutherans look at saints. Those from Apostolic faiths look at them as examples of sanctity.

As much as I appreciate Luther’s opening of the message of grace, I don’t see in his relationships the fruit of the HS. How did he show us how to love one’s enemies?
I’ll say again Christ did not give the Keys to St. Peter alone but to all the Apostles.
Is that what you thought I was talking about when I referred to the Petrine Gifts?
 
For sure! My advice to non Catholics is to have the utmost respect for the Lords Holy Family though.

Where one heads from there is their choice. I see a lack of respect not from the EO but many of the lower denominations of the Protestant. Very unwise to judge Gods Family.

I also don’t belive our individual prayers coincide with the intercession of the BVM. Mary has interceeded for mankind since the Anniunciation, Wedding of Cana etc. Her reality is still apparent. The combined prayer to Her by the millions to the Trinity without a doubt makes an impact.

God Bless, Gary
What is the significant things did Mary do in this event in wedding of Cana?
 
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DElias:
The Bible does state that “all have sinned”.
So it does.

Scripture also says (Mark 1:4) that “all” Judea and “all” of Jerusalem went out to see John the Baptist preach. Clearly this must mean that literally every man, woman and child in the region, wihtout exception, went to see him. And I demand that you prove to me from scripture that there is anyone in the region who didn’t go to see him. 🤷
 
So it does.

Scripture also says (Mark 1:4) that “all” Judea and “all” of Jerusalem went out to see John the Baptist preach. Clearly this must mean that literally every man, woman and child in the region, wihtout exception, went to see him. And I demand that you prove to me from scripture that there is anyone in the region who didn’t go to see him. 🤷
Yep.

Another point is that I seriously doubt babies have sinned.

MJ
 
What is the significant things did Mary do in this event in wedding of Cana?
She begain the perpetual ball rolling to bring Her Son to His Hour by encouraging Him. A mothers intuition. Just as She was their for Him His entire journey. Just as He was their for Her. And His last word on the Cross to Mary made Her the Mother of all mankind.

What do suppose in the event Christ was talking about when he said “my hour has not yet come?” Surely you don’t think this was about wine?

God Bless, Gary
 
I agree. To a point, you can really call it fear. We do not want to step outside of the boundaries of what may or may not be sin. Many Protestants are quite cautious of this thus the Bible sans Apocrypha is what we use.
In other words, you are very much comfortable with a bible that is incomplete!
 
No, I don’t think so.

No Catholic would say such a thing.
I have heard Catholics say that Mary is as great as God and that straw from Catholic nativity scenes have magic powers (literally). I assure you, it was said.
 
So it does.

Scripture also says (Mark 1:4) that “all” Judea and “all” of Jerusalem went out to see John the Baptist preach. Clearly this must mean that literally every man, woman and child in the region, wihtout exception, went to see him. And I demand that you prove to me from scripture that there is anyone in the region who didn’t go to see him. 🤷
This is kind of like saying that the whole town went to the fair which I would argue is either Mark’s way of speaking or a passage that found itself in such a state due to translation.

As for Paul’s passage in Romans, I believe that he would have been more careful when speaking of the world’s redemption.

“…for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and all are justified by his grace through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ.”

All are not justified by their grace. All are justified by his “individual” grace. It sounds as though Paul was referring to every individual and not in a wow-the-whole-town-came-out way.
 
This is kind of like saying that the whole town went to the fair which I would argue is either Mark’s way of speaking or a passage that found itself in such a state due to translation.

As for Paul’s passage in Romans, I doubt that he would have not have been so careful when speaking of the world’s redemption.

“…for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and all are justified by his grace through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ.”

All are not justified by their grace. All are justified by his “individual” grace. It sounds as though Paul was referring to every individual and not in a wow-the-whole-town-came-out way.
So anyway after gaining a better idea of Mary in the Catholic Church, do you believe we have the correct reverence for Her?

“…for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and all are justified by his grace through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ.”

Very Catholic statement. 😃 Mine is " We live by His mercy by the moment."

God Bless, Gary
 
So anyway after gaining a better idea of Mary in the Catholic Church, do you believe we have the correct reverence for Her?

“…for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and all are justified by his grace through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ.”

Very Catholic statement. 😃 Mine is " We live by His mercy by the moment."

God Bless, Gary
It would be how one would define reverence. When the thread branched into this latest area of disagreement, it was regarding the discomfort of Protestants of Mary’s position within Catholicism. I would never wish to speak disrespectfully of Mary due to her role. Catholics revere her, and it is understandable. When it comes to references of being Queen of the World and for her to pray for sinners, there is quite a bit to ponder.
 
She begain the perpetual ball rolling to bring Her Son to His Hour by encouraging Him. A mothers intuition. Just as She was their for Him His entire journey. Just as He was their for Her. And His last word on the Cross to Mary made Her the Mother of all mankind.

What do suppose in the event Christ was talking about when he said “my hour has not yet come?” Surely you don’t think this was about wine?

God Bless, Gary
Jesus knew that, once He revealed Himself to the public, that it would be a straight shot to the cross. He was gracious enough to allow His mother to accept this loss of Him. Their lives would never be the same, and though she may not have seen herself at the foot of the cross a mere three years down the road, she knew that a sword would pierce her heart somehow. He allowed her to choose the hour when she would release Him, and herself, to the inevitable.

Who knows how many private miracles He did for her before that day, that she was able to say with such confidence “do whatever He tells you”. She knew that the solution was already there, and that He would act. And for such a mundane a matter as not enough wine? This miracle was over a luxury! No one is ruined if the wine runs out. Yet, He refuses her nothing.
 
I have heard Catholics say that Mary is as great as God and that straw from Catholic nativity scenes have magic powers (literally). I assure you, it was said.
I’ve heard some Baptists say some pretty whacky things too. Whadayagunna do? 🤷

-Tim-
 
It would be how one would define reverence. When the thread branched into this latest area of disagreement, it was regarding the discomfort of Protestants of Mary’s position within Catholicism. I would never wish to speak disrespectfully of Mary due to her role. Catholics revere her, and it is understandable. When it comes to references of being Queen of the World and for her to pray for sinners, there is quite a bit to ponder.
Are you saying what we don’t know we just don’t know? I hear you. I’ll tell you what, listening to firm followers they are certainly convinced in Marys role in this period. The last hundred years came a firm stance by the Catholic Church on this. With a very long list ending with ex-cathedra. It has to lead way to caution and concern.

If we can as a whole at least get everyone to open their mind to this and proceed with caution it would be a Blessing. Lots of miracles from Her through God. Mexico is so profound I can’t even wrap my head around it. Converting Christians day to night for ten years straight?

My thinking is its better not to speak on what you don’t know, and its better to say I just don’t know, and be honest. Than instantly jump to I don’t believe and sway others thinking when in fact yours may be wrong. Good Logic to me. Especially when talking about Gods Kingdom. :eek:

God Bless, Gary
 
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