The Bishop's Curse = Generational Excommunication?

[Auriel]

I LOVE family research.

I have good old Scottish names in my tree as well as Border Reivers.

Today I discovered that they were one of the families who caused 14th century Archbishop Dunbar of Glasgow to pronounce a really dramatic curse of Epic Proportions! I mean this Bishop did not leave anything out! It reminded me of Saint Patrick’s Lorica as far as covering all the bases. It was to be read in all of those towns and at every crossroad.

I also read that some are so worried they have petitioned the Pope himself to have this ancient curse removed.

This must have been very serious. I am not sure many of my ancestors cared though, most moved, some were removed by force, and went on to join various secret societies which I believe is against catholic rules? You should see their tombstones!

Now I was only baptized as an infant in the Church so I do not know how excommunication works,. WOULD this be seen as an eternal curse and all generations excommunicated?

Then again, just the fact that I was born seems to be a sign that it is over! LOL

But seriously, how would this be seen?

Here is a link to original spelling. rootsweb.ancestry.com/~sctbew/History/cursing.htm

This is the first half of the translated version, the Bishop’s curse exceeds the post length limit! LOL:
**

"Good folks, (herewith) my Archbishop of Glasgow's letters, under his round seal, directed to me, or any other chaplain, making mention with great regret, how heavy he bears the piteous, lamentable, and dolorous complaint that passes over all realms and comes to his ears by open voice and fame, how our Sovereign Lord's true lieges, men, wives, and children, bought and redeemed by the precious blood of our Savior Jesus Christ, and living in his laws, are innocently, some murdered, some slain, burned, hurt, despoiled and cut openly by daylight and under silence of night, and their farms and lands laid waste, and themselves banished there from, also church lands as well as others, to be common traitors, rapists and thieves, dwelling in the south part of this realm, namely, Tevidale, Esdale, Liddesdale, Ewisdale, Nedisdale, and Annandereaill; they have been, in diverse ways, pursued for punishment by the temporal sword of our Sovereign Lord's authority, and they fear not the same. The church has condemned them in fear for their souls, and it has no prohibitory effect on their actions"

"And therefore, my said Archbishop of Glasgow has thought it necessary to strike them with the terrible sword of Holy Church, that they may not long endure and resist; and has charged me, or any other chaplain, to denounce, declare and proclaim them openly and generally cursed, at this market crossroads, and all other public places."

"Here fore, through the authority of Almighty God, the Father of Heaven, His Son our Savior, Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Ghost; through the authority of the Blessed Virgin, Saint Mary, Saint Michael, Saint Gabriel, and all the angels; Saint John the Baptist, and all the Holy patriarchs and prophets; Saint Peter, Saint Paul, Saint Andrew, and all holy apostles; Saint Stephen, Saint Lawrence, and all holy martyrs; Saint Giles, Saint Martin, and all holy confessors; Saint Anne, Saint Katherine, and all holy virgins and matrons; and of all the saints and holy company of Heaven; by the authority of our Holy Father the Pope and his cardinals, and of my said Lord, Archbishop of Glasgow, by the advice and assistance of my lords, archbishop, bishops, abbots, priors, and other prelates and ministers of Holy Church:"

"I denounce, proclaim and declare all the committers of the said senseless murders, slaughters, burning, torturing, plundering, raping and pillaging, openly by daylight and under silence of night, even on such peaceful ground as church lands; together with their families, henchmen, suppliers, and willing conspirators who give them refuge, their receivers of goods stolen by them, and any benefit or part thereof, and their counselors and defenders of their evil deeds, generally CURSED, denounced, execrated, in sum total, with the GREAT CURSING."

"I curse their head and all the hairs of their head; I curse their face, their brain (innermost thoughts), their mouth, their nose, their tongue, their teeth, their forehead, their shoulders, their breast, their heart, their stomach, their back, their womb, their arms, their legs, their hands, their feet, and every part of their body, from the top of their head to the soles of their feet, before and behind, within and without."

**

 

[Auriel]

Second half:

**“I curse them going and I curse them riding; I curse them standing and I curse them sitting; I curse them eating and I curse them drinking; I curse them rising, and I curse them lying; I curse them at home, I curse them away from home; I curse them within the house, I curse them outside of the house; I curse their wives, their children, and their servants who participate in their deeds. I (bring ill wishes upon) their crops, their cattle, their wool, their sheep, their horses, their swine, their geese, their hens, and all their livestock. I (bring ill wishes upon) their halls, their chambers, their kitchens, their stanchions, their barns, their cowsheds, their barnyards, their cabbage patches, their plows, their harrows, and the goods and houses that are necessary for their sustenance and welfare.”

"May all the malevolent wishes and curses ever known, since the beginning of the world, to this hour, light on them. May the malediction of God, that fell upon Lucifer and all his fellows, that cast them from the high Heaven to the deep hell, light upon them."

"May the fire and the sword that stopped Adam from the gates of Paradise, stop them from the glory of Heaven, until they forebear, and make amends."

"May the evil that fell upon cursed Cain, when he slew his brother Abel, needlessly, fall on them for the needless slaughter that they commit daily."

"May the malediction that fell upon all the world, man and beast, and all that ever took life, when all were drowned by the flood of Noah, except Noah and his ark, fall upon them and drown them, man and beast, and make this realm free of them, for their wicked sins."

"May the thunder and lightning which rained down upon Sodom and Gomorra and all the lands surrounding them, and burned them for their vile sins, rain down upon them and burn them for their open sins. May the evil and confusion that fell on the Gigantis for their oppression and pride in building the Tower of Babylon, confound them and all their works, for their open callous disregard and oppression."

"May all the plagues that fell upon Pharaoh and his people of Egypt, their lands, crops and cattle, fall upon them, their equipment, their places, their lands, their crops and livestock."

"May the waters of the Tweed and other waters which they use, drown them, as the Red Sea drowned King Pharaoh and the people of Egypt, preserving God's people of Israel."

"May the earth open, split and cleave, and swallow them straight to hell, as it swallowed cursed Dathan and Abiron, who disobeyed Moses and the command of God."

"May the wild fire that reduced Thore and his followers to two-hundred-fifty in number, and others from 14,000 to 7,000 at anys, usurping against Moses and Aaron, servants of God, suddenly burn and consume them daily, for opposing the commands of God and Holy Church."

"May the malediction that suddenly fell upon fair Absolom, riding through the wood against his father, King David, when the branches of a tree knocked him from his horse and hanged him by the hair, fall upon these untrue Scotsmen and hang them the same way, that all the world may see."

"May the malediction that fell upon Nebuchadnezzar's lieutenant, Olifernus, making war and savagery upon true Christian men; the malediction that fell upon Judas, Pilate, Herod, and the Jews that crucified Our Lord; and all the plagues and troubles that fell on the city of Jerusalem therefore, and upon Simon Magus for his treachery, bloody Nero, Ditius Magcensius, Olibrius, Julianus Apostita and the rest of the cruel tyrants who slew and murdered Christ's holy servants, fall upon them for their cruel tyranny and murder of Christian people."

"And may all the vengeance that ever was taken since the world began, for open sins, and all the plagues and pestilence that ever fell on man or beast, fall on them for their openly evil ways, senseless slaughter and shedding of innocent blood."

"I sever and part them from the church of God, and deliver them immediately to the devil of hell, as the Apostle Paul delivered Corinth. I bar the entrance of all places they come to, for divine service and ministration of the sacraments of holy church, except the sacrament of infant baptism, only; and I forbid all churchmen to hear their confession or to absolve them of their sins, until they are first humbled / subjugated by this curse."

"I forbid all Christian men or women to have any company with them, eating, drinking, speaking, praying, lying, going, standing, or in any other deed-doing, under the pain of deadly sin."

"I discharge all bonds, acts, contracts, oaths, made to them by any persons, out of loyalty, kindness, or personal duty, so long as they sustain this cursing, by which no man will be bound to them, and this will be binding on all men."

"I take from them, and cast down all the good deeds that ever they did, or shall do, until they rise from this cursing."

“I declare them excluded from all matins, masses, evening prayers, funerals or other prayers, on book or bead (rosary); of all pilgrimages and alms deeds done, or to be done in holy church or be Christian people, while this curse is in effect.”

“And, finally, I condemn them perpetually to the deep pit of hell, there to remain with Lucifer and all his fellows, and their bodies to the gallows of Burrow moor, first to be hanged, then ripped and torn by dogs, swine, and other wild beasts, abominable to all the world. And their candle (light of their life) goes from your sight, as may their souls go from the face of God, and their good reputation from the world, until they forebear their open sins, aforesaid, and rise from this terrible cursing and make satisfaction and penance.”**

 

[ralphinal]

To my knowledge, excommunication only works on those who are excommunicated. In other words, it ends when they die and is not inherited or passed on.

The curse itself looks like so much mumbo-jumbo and ritual talk meant to scare the targets into repenting. I do not know of any curses in the Church, but I am no expert on it. Besides, this does not look like a Pope had a hand in it, so it could not be too authoritative. Anyway, as with most things like this, it usually had the opposite effect.

 

[Auriel]

Thanks!

It was just bizarre to read! Especially since it was directed at some of my ancestors. It made me reflect on some that seemed jinxed in my family for a few minutes. LOL

It did seem that the poor Bishop was EXTREMELY exasperated and this was spoken out of anger. Today I researched a little further. Quite a few stole from the churches and burned a few down. The priests were all armed for safety reasons. Another family, not mine, had even stolen another Bishop’s pets and held them for ransom…and killed them anyway. And yet many valued their rosaries!

My tree is like an international cocktail. But BOY were the rumors right about how bad and wild some from that side were. Then again I am sure every family has a few. But how many can say their line was cursed by the Mother of all Curses?

I think I prefer reading about the more St Patrick types of Catholics!

What was so funny is finding this brought new meaning to all the times my grandmother said to me as a little girl…“you are as wild as a** March** hare!”

 

[First_of_9]

Somebody REALLY ticked the Bishop off

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Sorry, can’t go by this website whatsoever.

 

[Auriel]

Sorry, can’t go by this website whatsoever.

I only used that web site because it had the original spelling.

What made me google it is that a relative called from out of states and was telling me about a curse mentioned in a book called THE STEEL BONNETS. It was written by British Author George MacDonald Fraser. He wrote historical novels and screen plays. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_MacDonald_Fraser

I intend on purchasing the book but I just had to see if it was true and out on the net.

Oh it’s true alright. And man, they even have the curse replicated as artwork on a 4 ton stone in Carlisle! This is a link to what it looks like. visitcumbria.com/car/millsub.htm

I found other places were people objected to it and thought it would jinx them too. LOL

I can’t wait to see the book! I bet they did not call it the mother of all curses though.

I must say, it did make me rethink some of this stuff! And I hate to admit it, but it is making all the things my grandmother said, (paternal side), come back to haunt me! HAHAHAHA

Most on that side were Protestant after coming to America. Once when I was being a huge sneaky pain in the rump my grandmother said…“I swear you could make a preacher cuss!” Some things never change.

I also wondered about the people who petitioned the Pope, I believe it was Pope John Paul II, to remove the curse. I wondered if they were seriously worried or if it was a publicity stunt.

My mother was a catholic but not around to ask about these types of things, She died young.

 

[ralphinal]

Moral of the story: don’t tick off the Bishop

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Second half:

…

"May all the malevolent wishes and curses ever known, since the beginning of the world, to this hour, light on them. May the malediction of God, that fell upon Lucifer and all his fellows, that cast them from the high Heaven to the deep hell, light upon them."

"May the fire and the sword that stopped Adam from the gates of Paradise, stop them from the glory of Heaven, until they forebear, and make amends."

"May the evil that fell upon cursed Cain, when he slew his brother Abel, needlessly, fall on them for the needless slaughter that they commit daily."

"May the malediction that fell upon all the world, man and beast, and all that ever took life, when all were drowned by the flood of Noah, except Noah and his ark, fall upon them and drown them, man and beast, and make this realm free of them, for their wicked sins."

"May the thunder and lightning which rained down upon Sodom and Gomorra and all the lands surrounding them, and burned them for their vile sins, rain down upon them and burn them for their open sins. May the evil and confusion that fell on the Gigantis for their oppression and pride in building the Tower of Babylon, confound them and all their works, for their open callous disregard and oppression."

"May all the plagues that fell upon Pharaoh and his people of Egypt, their lands, crops and cattle, fall upon them, their equipment, their places, their lands, their crops and livestock."

"May the waters of the Tweed and other waters which they use, drown them, as the Red Sea drowned King Pharaoh and the people of Egypt, preserving God’s people of Israel."

"May the earth open, split and cleave, and swallow them straight to hell, as it swallowed cursed Dathan and Abiron, who disobeyed Moses and the command of God."

"May the wild fire that reduced Thore and his followers to two-hundred-fifty in number, and others from 14,000 to 7,000 at anys, usurping against Moses and Aaron, servants of God, suddenly burn and consume them daily, for opposing the commands of God and Holy Church."

"May the malediction that suddenly fell upon fair Absolom, riding through the wood against his father, King David, when the branches of a tree knocked him from his horse and hanged him by the hair, fall upon these untrue Scotsmen and hang them the same way, that all the world may see."

"May the malediction that fell upon Nebuchadnezzar’s lieutenant, Olifernus, making war and savagery upon true Christian men; the malediction that fell upon Judas, Pilate, Herod, and the Jews that crucified Our Lord; and all the plagues and troubles that fell on the city of Jerusalem therefore, and upon Simon Magus for his treachery, bloody Nero, Ditius Magcensius, Olibrius, Julianus Apostita and the rest of the cruel tyrants who slew and murdered Christ’s holy servants, fall upon them for their cruel tyranny and murder of Christian people."

"And may all the vengeance that ever was taken since the world began, for open sins, and all the plagues and pestilence that ever fell on man or beast, fall on them for their openly evil ways, senseless slaughter and shedding of innocent blood."

"I sever and part them from the church of God, and deliver them immediately to the devil of hell, as the Apostle Paul delivered Corinth. I bar the entrance of all places they come to, for divine service and ministration of the sacraments of holy church, except the sacrament of infant baptism, only; and I forbid all churchmen to hear their confession or to absolve them of their sins, until they are first humbled / subjugated by this curse."

"I forbid all Christian men or women to have any company with them, eating, drinking, speaking, praying, lying, going, standing, or in any other deed-doing, under the pain of deadly sin."

"I discharge all bonds, acts, contracts, oaths, made to them by any persons, out of loyalty, kindness, or personal duty, so long as they sustain this cursing, by which no man will be bound to them, and this will be binding on all men."

"I take from them, and cast down all the good deeds that ever they did, or shall do, until they rise from this cursing."

"I declare them excluded from all matins, masses, evening prayers, funerals or other prayers, on book or bead (rosary); of all pilgrimages and alms deeds done, or to be done in holy church or be Christian people, while this curse is in effect."

"And, finally, I condemn them perpetually to the deep pit of hell, there to remain with Lucifer and all his fellows, and their bodies to the gallows of Burrow moor, first to be hanged, then ripped and torn by dogs, swine, and other wild beasts, abominable to all the world. And their candle (light of their life) goes from your sight, as may their souls go from the face of God, and their good reputation from the world, until they forebear their open sins, aforesaid, and rise from this terrible cursing and make satisfaction and penance."

That generational stuff is aqueous bovine effluvia; “Mormonish”, in fact - & that’s putting it nicely.​

 

[Auriel]

That generational stuff is** aqueous bovine effluvia**; “Mormonish”, in fact - & that’s putting it nicely.​

Aqueous bovine effluvia…I like it! You have given me my new word(s) of the day! I will see how many times tomorrow I can slip it in conversation.

And yes, in this case the curse seemed to have failed. He cursed the wombs and that line has reproduced quite nicely! LOL In fact just in my family I am one of eight.

That Bishop also quarrelled with other high ranking members of the church and was also a politician so there could have been other things that incurred his wrath that history does not tell us about.

Now I am fascinated with his history. It seems he was known for having a temper and for being “proactive”. He had all churchmen burned alive save for one, for heresy at Castlehill of Edinburgh and was one of the judges who saw fit to burn to death a Franciscan friar named Jerome Russell. He was there too when Protestant Patrick Hamilton was burned alive, it took him 6 hours to die, the sticks were wet. He was no St. Francis of Assisi!

It must have been wild as far as border politics went, it was too inter-meshed and both sides stole from each other from across the border and were related to families on each side. Lots of feuding families, both rich and poor.

If nothing else I have a cool story to tell my little one when he is old enough, And I had a little lesson in history!