The Blessed Virgin Mary and Islam

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

… She is praying me to do this for her, but is she worshiping me by doing so?

requesting someone to do a work & praying /uttering the prayer that all power belong to Mary (p) , it’s not same.

I greet thee, Mary,
Lady and Mistress,
to whom all power has been given
in Heaven and on earth.

catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?p=1094

In Islam , this kind of prayer is considered as Shirk/ blasphemy.

You say that you miss her. Do you not visit that forum anymore?

yes , but she does not

 

[rtconstant]

rtconstant;4790659:

Hi

But Muslims rightly prefer not to be called Christians, as the Christians worship Jesus- a man, in my opinion. We always feel happy to be Muslims.

I love Jesus

Thanks

Oh, don’t get me wrong I’m not questioning why that Muslims would want to be known by their own name instead of Christian. My point was that if JW’s and Mormons must be seen as Christian, then Muslims could said to be as well, as their beliefs in Jesus are not in anyway less traditional than the above groups. You are right Muslims are not Christians, however, neither are JW’s or Mormons. They are their own religions.

 

[rtconstant]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

requesting someone to do a work & praying /uttering the prayer that all power belong to Mary (p) , it’s not same.

I greet thee, Mary,
Lady and Mistress,
to whom all power has been given
in Heaven and on earth.

catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?p=1094

In Islam , this kind of prayer is considered as Shirk/ blasphemy.

I can understand the confusion. This is a problem in language and perspective. Like anything this prayer must be viewed in the context of its intent. In the Christian view Jesus, is the Messiah, and the heir of David. He is the King of Israel and Lord of Heaven. I realize you don’t share that all of those views but, for a moment view it from the Christian perspective. Mary is his Queen Mother, and the Queen of Heaven. So she is a bit of a special case as her fiat opened the way for coming of the Messiah. As the Queen Mother she has rank above all other humans. However, anything that she has is not of her, but giving by God through His Son her child, Jesus.

So while that taken on its own without context yes I can see how that this prayer would be objectionable. However, a Christian understands all the assumptions that go with this prayer. So when a Christian says this prayer they are not believing that Mary has power of her own. It is assumed that any authority she has is granted by God.

I realize this is a completely different cosmology than you would follow as a Muslim and I’m not questioning you in that choice. Nor am I saying that you should just accept these views because I’m telling them to you. All I’m trying to convey is that a Christian does not say this prayer with worship in mind. It is an acknowledgment of respect for one that is “highly favored” by God. So as a Muslim I don’t expect you to believe that Mary is the Queen of Heaven, all I’m saying to you as a Christian is that when I speak to Mary I do not view her as God, or as a goddess. I view her as a very holy, maid servant of God, and that God honored her greatly because that she submitted to giving birth to the Messiah.

yes , but she does not

Oh I see. I’m sorry that you have lost touch with your friend. I hope that you will be able to get in contact with her again.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

… she is a bit of a special case

Yes , she is very special . Muslims respect her a lot . Quran says that her mother prayed to God to keep her offsprings out of devil & God granted the prayer . So , Mary & her child Jesus (pbut ) were not touched by devil .

But the prayers Christians offer to her , who taught them that ? I guess , neither Jesus or Mary (pbut) . So , how authentic are these ? To be a good Christian , is it a must to pray to her ?

 

[Thing]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

Yes , she is very special . Muslims respect her a lot . Quran says that her mother prayed to God to keep her offsprings out of devil & God granted the prayer . So , Mary & her child Jesus (pbut ) were not touched by devil .

But the prayers Christians offer to her , who taught them that ? I guess , neither Jesus or Mary (pbut) . So , how authentic are these ? To be a good Christian , is it a must to pray to her ?

In Catholicism ‘prayer’ comes in two flavours. Latria and Dulia/Hyperdulia. The former due to God alone is sacrifical in nature, the latter honours Gods friends not with the adoration due only to God but with a level of honour which is reflected by the esteem in which God Himself held and holds some of His creatures.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

Yes , she is very special . Muslims respect her a lot . Quran says that her mother prayed to God to keep her offsprings out of devil & God granted the prayer . So , Mary & her child Jesus (pbut ) were not touched by devil .

But the prayers Christians offer to her , who taught them that ? I guess , neither Jesus or Mary (pbut) . So , how authentic are these ? To be a good Christian , is it a must to pray to her ?

The apostles are responsible for all traditions we have in the Catholic Church. I also read somehwere (I just dont know where exactly, it might be Catholic.org) How even the very very first Chritians who were getting persecuted by the Jews for their conversions, how they used to draw pictures of their beloved Mother Mary in caves for courage, strength, faith and so on. So its a long long tradition. It dosent come directly from Christ, but it comes from the people that ate, slept, drank, spoke, with Christ. And from those that died for Christ.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

In Catholicism ‘prayer’ comes in two flavours. Latria and Dulia/Hyperdulia. .

thanks for the info. Is there any Do’s & Dont’s for the prayers ? How this kind of prayer is not associating partner with God ?

I greet thee, Mary,
Lady and Mistress,
to whom all power has been given
in Heaven and on earth.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

thanks for the info. Is there any Do’s & Dont’s for the prayers ? How this kind of prayer is not associating partner with God ?

I greet thee, Mary,
Lady and Mistress,
to whom all power has been given
in Heaven and on earth.

“to whom all power has been given”–who you suppose gave Mary the power in Heaven and on Earth?

let me also quote:

“We ask Saints to pray to God with us and for us. We ask the Saints to guide us to live lives like they lived. We ask for that which is within their power to give. My girlfriend asks me to do her taxes for her. This is something within my power to do for her. She is praying me to do this for her, but is she worshiping me by doing so?”

 

[Thing]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

thanks for the info. Is there any Do’s & Dont’s for the prayers ? How this kind of prayer is not associating partner with God ?

I greet thee, Mary,
Lady and Mistress,
to whom all power has been given
in Heaven and on earth.

Are there any do’s and dont’s for the prayers?.
Well, thats an interesting question, I may say that the first contact between God and Man in early jewish times resulted in *sacrifices *being asked by God. He wished, for His own reasons, to make sacrifice be the type of prayer reserved for Him alone.
Initially it was animal sacrifice to God. Then later Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son to God, which he did to all intents and purposes. Then later still the most perfect sacrifice was introduced, which was God Himself sacrificed on the cross for us. This perfect sacrifice is offered to God as the most perfect prayer possible. The Catholic sacrifice of the Mass is the very same sacrifice as Christs sacrifice of His life on Calvary, making the Mass the most perfect prayer one can offer God, as it is Gods perfect prayer to Himself as He wished it be done, sacrificial in character.

That is Latria, or the prayer due to God alone, it is sacrificial in character and may be offered to God only.

You don’t offer that type of prayer to Mary or the Saints. That is the Don’t, I suppose.

So what you Do with Dulia?;

Well, you don’t ignore Gods friends or treat them indifferently or poorly any more than you would ignore your husbands friends, I hope.
You do honour Gods friends because to do so you also honour God and treat them as He treated them. That type of honour is called Dulia or Hyperdulia in the case of Mary, as, the Mother of God is as close to God as any human can possibly be, it is a special relationship and honour.

I greet thee, Mary,
Lady and Mistress,
to whom all power has been given
in Heaven and on earth

Those lines were composed sometime in the mid 1800’s at a time when language was a little different. Similar to todays language, like, how r u, or, toys are us, the quote, when considered, tells us something else than its initial appearance might suggest, it is that whatever Mary asks of her Son will be done. As Christ told His friends whatever you ask it will be done for you, and as Mary demonstrated in Cana when she asked Jesus to solve the ‘wine shortage’ that even though He told her His time had not yet come, He still honoured His mother and turned water into wine.

The priest who composed the lines is called Father Paul of Moll, he was a Flemish Benedictine priest who was known as a miracle-worker in his lifetime. He died in 1896. Three years later, in July 1899, his body was exhumed and found to be in a perfect state of preservation. He is one of the ‘inncorruptables’.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

…Those lines were composed sometime in the mid 1800’s .

any such prayer about Mary (p) is found during the time of Jesus (p) ? Jesus (p) ever taught anyone that pray through her etc etc ?

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

any such prayer about Mary (p) is found during the time of Jesus (p) ? Jesus (p) ever taught anyone that pray through her etc etc ?

No, but Jesus used His dying breaths on the cross to say “Behold, your mother”.

 

[Thing]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

any such prayer about Mary (p) is found during the time of Jesus (p) ? Jesus (p) ever taught anyone that pray through her etc etc ?

To be very pernickety I could say: And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him [Jesus]: They have no wine.
Someone, the host presumably told Mary he was ruuning out of wine Mary told her son and sealed the deed by telling the servants to ‘do whatever he shall say to you’.
A prayer is ‘to ask’, the host asked Mary to interceed and she did.

 

[Cluny]

True Mariology is an extension of Christology.

Since the Jesus of Islam is not the real Jesus, it foillows that the enity Islam calls “Mariam” is not the real one, either.

 

[brigantine]

True Mariology is an extension of Christology.

Since the Jesus of Islam is not the real Jesus, it foillows that the enity Islam calls “Mariam” is not the real one, either.

Agree! You can’t separate the two. Mary IS the Theotokos (Mother of God) so it goes without saying Jesus is God!

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

…A prayer is ‘to ask’, the host asked Mary to interceed and she did.

Mother Mary (p) was alive at that time . Souls don’t die , in that sense all dead persons are alive --not only Saints. So , why not just ask God directly ?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

…Since the Jesus of Islam is not the real Jesus, it foillows that the enity Islam calls “Mariam” is not the real one, either.

huh

the difference is we respect Jesus (p) & Christians worship him. Either we are correct or you are but it does not make Jesus (p) & Mary (p) unreal

 

[Thing]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

Mother Mary (p) was alive at that time . Souls don’t die , in that sense all dead persons are alive --not only Saints. So , why not just ask God directly ?

All dead persons are alive. Some are alive in hell, some are alive in purgatory and some are alive in heaven. We certainly do ask God directly for everything we need. In fact He tells us Himself that He knows what we need even before we ask.
So why bother asking Him at all for anything, in that case? Because, He taught us to ask Him for what we need.

Now, as all people are alive in God, He maintains all of us, even on an atomic or sub-atomic scale, from moment to moment, there is nothing we can do of our own power without Him allowing it.
Because of this unusual situation we find ourselves in and because our nature is Human, we conclude that God is our Creator, our Father, and we are His sons and daughters. Our relationship with God is one of a familial type. As such we are all, as family, responsible for each other. And this relationship and reality does not end at death. Our family is in heaven and on earth. And heaven and earth exist in God.
So, God lives in us and we live in Him, we are His family, His adapted children. Now, concerning your question, His words to us were, that, '…if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning any thing whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven. 20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The prayers to the saints are intercessionary prayers, where something is asked of or requested by us of God we ask also our brothers and sisters alive in Christ who are in heaven to pray with us to God for our needs. So we meet to the fullest degree possible Christs’ direction to us, ‘…For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.’, whenever we call on or ask or pray to the saints, who are gathered around us in heaven, to join in prayer to God.

That being said, Catholicism likes to push the envelope, it sees the romance in going the extra mile. When we find we have a host of living saints in heaven,’…I heard as it were the voice of much people in heaven, saying: Alleluia. Salvation, and glory, and power is to our God.’, we are not shy in asking them to pray also with us.
You will find the odd protestant here and there who is fearfull, they say their prayers and thats fine too.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

… Christs’ direction to us, ‘…For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.’,.

Jesus (p) meant the living persons in earth or Saints in heaven ?

Can u tell me who made the first statue of Mother Mary (p) & Jesus (p) and when , where etc ?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

I heard that in Iran , some artists draw images of Prophet Muhammed (p) . Don’t know how they do it ’ cause Prophet’s photograph is not available . Also , to avoid the major sin that some Muslims may start worshipping the image of the Prophet , it’s safe not to draw picture of the Prophet . Also , in Islam , it’s not encourged to draw picture of living being .

 

[Thing]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

Jesus (p) meant the living persons in earth or Saints in heaven ?

Can u tell me who made the first statue of Mother Mary (p) & Jesus (p) and when , where etc ?

He meant those on Earth, He had not ascended into heaven. Heaven was not yet open to man. When heaven was opened, those in heaven could witness those on Earth and also pray to God.
St. Paul; And therefore we also having so great a cloud of witnesses over our head, laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us:
St. John; …I heard as it were the voice of much people in heaven, saying: Alleluia. Salvation, and glory, and power is to our God.’

The first artistic representation of Jesus was probably in the first century in the Roman catacombs. (The last Apostle, St. John, died near the end of the first century.)

The earliest representation of the Madonna and Child may be the wall painting in the Catacomb of Priscilla, Rome, dated the second century.

However, the earliest representation or image of Jesus was the image God made of Him when He made Himself man for all of us to see.