The Blessed Virgin, questions concerning

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I am investigating the Catholic Religion with interest in conversion and have some issues that I am trying to work through. The first issue that I have is The Blessed Virgin, Mary. I have read in various places that Catholics (not all but many) consider Mary to be a co-contributor to our salvation. What is the absolute truth on this matter? I have no problem at all with the veneration of Mary, honoring of, praying to for intercession, etc. The issue that I have is the “co-contributor” part. Exactly what part in my salvation did Mary play? The second portion is the Immaculate Conception of Mary. Is this saying that Mary was conceived without the blemish of original sin or did God “infuse” her with a perfect spirit after she became pregnant with Jesus so that He would be born without sin? I know these may sound like minute points but I am very careful with what I embrace and must know the truth in these matters. I don’t know of any better place to go, I have received good answers here thus far. God bless and have a great day!
 
Jesus is our Redeemer period.The Co you are refering to is a mere co-operation in the Divine plan of salvation.It was Mary’s yes in contrast to Eve’s no.Mary cooperated with God’s plan and brought Our Savior into the world.Being born without the stain of origional sin was a gift brought about by God,that did not take away Mary’s free will.Does this help?God Bless
 
Somewhat, but not completely, please see below. Granted, in verse 48 we see that future generations will call me (Mary) blessed, but why did Mary need a savior if she had no sin? Please accept my questions in the innocent spirit that I intend. I know this is a touchy subject, but like I said in my very first posting in this site, I have a lot of hard questions. Thank you for your assistance.

Luke 1.46-47 - And Mary said, ‘My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. (NRSV).
 
Mary is sometimes called Co-Redemptrix, for the reasons that Lisa mentioned.

It is important to remember that what the Catholic faith believes about Mary is based on what it believes about Christ, and what it teaches about Mary illumines in turn its faith in Christ (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 487).

Here is the dogma of the Immaculate Conception from Pope Pius IX’s *Ineffabilis Deus *can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, 491:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.
 
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SavedByFaith:
why did Mary need a savior if she had no sin?
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Because, without the savior should wouldn’t have been given the grace of immaculate conception.

Plus, I would think that she was probably unaware of her immaculate conception.
 
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SavedByFaith:
Granted, in verse 48 we see that future generations will call me (Mary) blessed, but why did Mary need a savior if she had no sin?
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Mary had no sin because she was saved. She was saved by the redemption of Jesus Christ at the moment of her conception. God’s redemptive act is now free from the constraints of time, and God’s will is completely free. Thus God is free to apply the merits of Christ’s redemptive act at any time (and in any manner) He so chooses. In the case of Our Blessed Mother, God applied the merits of Christ’s redemptive act simultaneously with Mary’s conception.

No she never had sin. She never had sin because of Christ’s redemptive act. In this way, Mary still required a savior.
 
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SavedByFaith:
. . .why did Mary need a savior if she had no sin?
. . . Luke 1.46-47 - And Mary said, ‘My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. (NRSV).
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This is a GREAT question! Eve was also without sin. The whole fallen human race requires a savior. Part of the answer to your question lies in the fact that Mary, as the “new Eve” recapitulates creation – but without the fall – so by the “singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, [she is] preserved immune from all stain of original sin.” (Ineffabilis Deus) There is more to this dogma than that, but this is enough for now.

Let me help you out. I, too, am a Convert. And like most Converts, the “Mary” issues were the toughest part of Catholicism to handle. However, once it was clear to me that the Church was Who she claims to be, I knew that the problem was with me, not with the Church. Your problem is not with Mary, it is with the authority of the Church. Solve that and the rest falls into place on its own.

Here’s a chuckle. Have you ever heard of Kimberley Hahn? She is the well-known wife of Scott Hahn – both converts. Scott came into the Church 3 years before Kimberly. At one point, close to the time of her coming into the Church, she said:

I only have three problems left with the Catholic Church:
  1. Mary
  2. Mary
    and
  3. Mary.
Godspeed
 
I can easily see WHY Mary had to be free of sin, otherwise; Christ could not have been without sin. This is quite deep, let me ponder this and come to grips with it. Please feel free to continue to add to this post, I can use all the information that I can get. Thanks again all and God Bless!
 
I can easily see WHY Mary had to be free of sin, otherwise; Christ could not have been without sin (is this correct?). This is quite deep, let me ponder this and come to grips with it. Please feel free to continue to add to this post, I can use all the information that I can get. Thanks again all and God Bless!
 
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SavedByFaith:
I am investigating the Catholic Religion with interest in conversion and have some issues that I am trying to work through. The first issue that I have is The Blessed Virgin, Mary. I have read in various places that Catholics (not all but many) consider Mary to be a co-contributor to our salvation. What is the absolute truth on this matter? I have no problem at all with the veneration of Mary, honoring of, praying to for intercession, etc. The issue that I have is the “co-contributor” part. Exactly what part in my salvation did Mary play? The second portion is the Immaculate Conception of Mary. Is this saying that Mary was conceived without the blemish of original sin or did God “infuse” her with a perfect spirit after she became pregnant with Jesus so that He would be born without sin? I know these may sound like minute points but I am very careful with what I embrace and must know the truth in these matters. I don’t know of any better place to go, I have received good answers here thus far. God bless and have a great day!
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You sound like me before I converted. Don’t get caught up on the minor points of the faith. It took me almost 5 years to understand what you are asking and I’m learning everyday.

Here are your answers (to the best of my limited knowledge):
  1. Exactly what part in my salvation did Mary play?
    A. Because of Mary’s selfless sacrafice, Jesus was born. Jesus and Mary have a special relationship as any Mother and Child do.
  2. Is this saying that Mary was conceived without the blemish of original sin …
    A. The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what “immaculate” means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings.
You are right, there are minor points. I know Catholic who know less about Mary than you do.

For more information: catholic.com/library/mary_saints.asp
 
why did Mary need a savior if she had no sin?
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Think of our Savior’s action in two senses: 1) I have fallen into the pit of sin, and I need a savior to pull me out of it. 2) I am kept from falling into the pit of sin by the savior.

In both senses, the Savior, Jesus Christ is absolutely necessary. Mary was saved in the sense described in 2) above. She was kept from falling into the pit of sin by the grace of God, through his Son Jesus Christ.

To appreciate the Scriptural basis for this theology, think of Mary as the Ark of the Covenant. In OT times, the Ark of the Covenant contained the Word of God. It was important to God that it be made of acacia wood and purest gold, that it be kept pure and free from corruption. In NT times, the living Ark is Mary, the Living Word is Jesus. Similarly, God wanted a Living Ark that was made pure (immaculate conception), and kept pure (perpetual virginity and sinless), free from corruption (assumption of Mary).
 
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SavedByFaith:
I can easily see WHY Mary had to be free of sin, otherwise; Christ could not have been without sin (is this correct?). This is quite deep, let me ponder this and come to grips with it. Please feel free to continue to add to this post, I can use all the information that I can get. Thanks again all and God Bless!
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Depending on where you are in Ohio, have you considered a trek out to Stubenville Franciscan U?
 
Théodred:
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SavedByFaith:
I can easily see WHY Mary had to be free of sin, otherwise; Christ could not have been without sin (is this correct?).
Christ was without sin because he was God. 😉
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Correct, but the human side of God (Christ) had to be born clean vs. unclean and as such had to have a mother free of sin??
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SavedByFaith:
Somewhat, but not completely, please see below. Granted, in verse 48 we see that future generations will call me (Mary) blessed, but why did Mary need a savior if she had no sin? Please accept my questions in the innocent spirit that I intend. I know this is a touchy subject, but like I said in my very first posting in this site, I have a lot of hard questions. Thank you for your assistance.

Luke 1.46-47 - And Mary said, ‘My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. (NRSV).
Click to expand...
You see…Mary even recognized that she was saved by the merits of Christ on the Cross. Please bear in mind that St. John calls Jesus the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world…if that is so, then it is logical to accept that God could apply that sacrifice to all the faithful Jews as well as the Blessed Virgin. Mary’s redemption was simply “more perfect” in that it was given to her at her conception as a preparation for being the Ark of the New Covenant; Jesus.

Catholic Home Study Service has a free course on Mary called Mary, Christ’s Mother and Ours, if you’re interested. It’s the book that began my own trip back home to the faith, so that should tell you something huh? 😉
 
I can easily see WHY Mary had to be free of sin, otherwise; Christ could not have been without sin (is this correct?)
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I dont’ believe this is correct. Catholic theology insists that Jesus is free from sin, not because Mary was sinless, but because Jesus was both Divine and Human. Divinity is incompatible with sin.

Consider also this: Mary was sinless, but her parents were not. How could this be? Original sin is something we all naturally inherit as a consequence of being a child of Adam. Therefore, unless there’s a supernatural intervetion by God, I am not automatically, naturally sinless. With Mary, God intervened supernaturally when he infused her soul with supernatural grace at the moment of conception. She was made pure so that she could be the very Ark of the Living Word of God, just as it was with the OT Ark.
 
JMJ + OBT​
Dear SavedByFaith,

I highly recommend you read through this section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. You can also buy a printed copy of the CCC for under $10: if you read 8 numbered paragraphs per day from the CCC, you will read the entire thing in just under one year (358 days). And if you do undertake this project, I can almost assure you that upon completing it (or even beforehand) you will either (1) know exactly why you believe the Catholic Church is wrong in its beliefs, or (2) you will be actively moving towards full membership in her.

Also, you might like to read the following essays by the late Fr. William Most:

Our Lady’s Cooperation in the Redemption

Cooperation in the Redemption
[this essay is kind of an “expanded version” of the first one I linked to]

I hope this information is helpful. May Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ grant you grace and peace in your continued search for the Truth about His Church.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA
 
Correct, but the human side of God (Christ) had to be born clean vs. unclean and as such had to have a mother free of sin??
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No. Think of Original Sin as the lack of the Original Justice that Adam and Eve had. Surely God can create a man and a woman without the stain of sin. He did so with Adam and Eve. However, as a just punishment, God removed some supernatural and preternatural gifts from Adam and Eve, and also kept them from Adam’s progeny. The natural gifts remained.

With Mary, because of her role as the Mother of Christ, God intervened and gave to her the same original justice (supernatural grace) that Eve had. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the sinlessness of Christ.

Christ, just like Mary, was born of a human mother. So, Jesus was human. However, unlike any other human, Jesus was also Divine, eternally begotten of the Father. Instead of him needing the gift of supernatural grace, Jesus WAS grace itself. The hypostatic (personal) union of Divine and human nature within Christ is why Jesus was sinless. This has nothing to do with human natural generation.
 
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SavedByFaith:
I am investigating the Catholic Religion with interest in conversion and have some issues that I am trying to work through. The first issue that I have is The Blessed Virgin, Mary. I have read in various places that Catholics (not all but many) consider Mary to be a co-contributor to our salvation. What is the absolute truth on this matter? I have no problem at all with the veneration of Mary, honoring of, praying to for intercession, etc. The issue that I have is the “co-contributor” part. Exactly what part in my salvation did Mary play? The second portion is the Immaculate Conception of Mary. Is this saying that Mary was conceived without the blemish of original sin or did God “infuse” her with a perfect spirit after she became pregnant with Jesus so that He would be born without sin? I know these may sound like minute points but I am very careful with what I embrace and must know the truth in these matters. I don’t know of any better place to go, I have received good answers here thus far. God bless and have a great day!
Click to expand...
Mary is considered to be the Co - Redemptrix because she co-operated and said yes to God. Many of the church fathers contrast Mary to Eve. Irenaeus said
  1. In accordance with this design, Mary the Virgin is found obedient, saying, “Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.”(2) But Eve was disobedient; for she did not obey when as yet she was a virgin. And even as she, having indeed a husband, Adam, but being nevertheless as yet a virgin (for in Paradise “they were both naked, and were not ashamed,”(3) inasmuch as they, having been created a short time previously, had no understanding of the procreation of children: for it was necessary that they should first come to adult age,(4) and then multiply from that time onward), having become disobedient, was made the cause of death, both to herself and to the entire human race; so also did Mary, having a man betrothed [to her], and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, become the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race. And on this account does the law term a woman betrothed to a man, the wife of him who had betrothed her, although she was as yet a virgin; thus indicating the back-reference from Mary to Eve, because what is joined together could not otherwise be put asunder than by inversion of the process by which these bonds of union had arisen; s so that the former ties be cancelled by the latter, that the latter may set the former again at liberty.
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Savedbyfaith,

You have had some excellent answers on this thread. I will only say to remember that The Virgin Mary was not/ is not Devine. But she certainly can ask Her Son to smile at you.
 
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