The Blessed Virgin, questions concerning

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Praise God for all you good people! I have had more engaging and thought provoking (name removed by moderator)ut on this site than anywhere I have ever visited (Catholic or Protestant). You have some very intelligent people here! Regardless of my final decision regarding conversion, I will defend Catholics forevermore. It is truly amazing how much more you can learn when you go to the source rather than the attacker of a faith! I have much reading and researching to do. I know someone said that the Mary issue was indeed a minor point, but to me I must reconcile it because it seems that in Catholic life (especially the rosary) more time is spent honoring Mary than anything else, so I must make sense of it (the devotion to The Blessed Virgin). I understand that we are only appealling to her for intercession (is that correct?) but it still is a major point for me of which I admit that I know very little.
 
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SavedByFaith:
Praise God for all you good people! I have had more engaging and thought provoking (name removed by moderator)ut on this site than anywhere I have ever visited (Catholic or Protestant). You have some very intelligent people here! Regardless of my final decision regarding conversion, I will defend Catholics forevermore. It is truly amazing how much more you can learn when you go to the source rather than the attacker of a faith! I have much reading and researching to do. I know someone said that the Mary issue was indeed a minor point, but to me I must reconcile it because it seems that in Catholic life (especially the rosary) more time is spent honoring Mary than anything else, so I must make sense of it (the devotion to The Blessed Virgin). I understand that we are only appealling to her for intercession (is that correct?) but it still is a major point for me of which I admit that I know very little.
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You can be a good Catholic without ever praying a rosary. I was Catholic for a year before I picked up a set of beads and started praying the rosary. Of course, it changed my life but as I said in my earlier post, get the position of Christ and his Church straightened out and Mary will slide into place right where she belongs.

You might pray: “Lord, you know I’m having trouble understanding how your Mother fits into the scheme of things. Please show me how to honor her as you honor her; how to love her with a true and fitting devotion that honors you.”

And if you don’t become Catholic, the fact that you say you will be a “defender” is a great blessing to us. You have no IDEA how many people hate what they erroneously believe the Catholic Church teaches!

Remember, Mary’s last recorded words in Scripture are, “Do whatever He tells you!”
 
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mercygate:
Let me help you out. I, too, am a Convert. And like most Converts, the “Mary” issues were the toughest part of Catholicism to handle. However, once it was clear to me that the Church was Who she claims to be, I knew that the problem was with me, not with the Church. Your problem is not with Mary, it is with the authority of the Church. Solve that and the rest falls into place on its own.

Godspeed
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Speaking of the Church being who she claims to be… (Here we go again, lol) just about every chuch you read about (especially independent fundamental baptists) **claims **to be the first church instituted by Christ. How can I know that the Catholic Church actually is this original church instituted by Christ Himself? That would help me a lot in my thought process.
 
Also bear in mind that Mary is the only person in all of the Bible to be greeted with “Hail full of grace.” I am pretty sure that that is significant since her fullness of grace has to be an allusion to her Immaculate Conception.
 
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SavedByFaith:
Speaking of the Church being who she claims to be… (Here we go again, lol) just about every chuch you read about **claims **to be the first church instituted by Christ. How can I know that the Catholic Church actually is this original church instituted by Christ Himself? That would help me a lot in my thought process.
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Look to history… no Protestant church is older than 487 years and the Reformation.
whostartedyourchurch.com/
 
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SavedByFaith:
Praise God for all you good people! I have had more engaging and thought provoking (name removed by moderator)ut on this site than anywhere I have ever visited (Catholic or Protestant). You have some very intelligent people here! Regardless of my final decision regarding conversion, I will defend Catholics forevermore. It is truly amazing how much more you can learn when you go to the source rather than the attacker of a faith! I have much reading and researching to do. I know someone said that the Mary issue was indeed a minor point, but to me I must reconcile it because it seems that in Catholic life (especially the rosary) more time is spent honoring Mary than anything else, so I must make sense of it (the devotion to The Blessed Virgin). I understand that we are only appealling to her for intercession (is that correct?) but it still is a major point for me of which I admit that I know very little.
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The Rosary is based on the Gospels and the focus is on Jesus.The Mysterys are Joyful 1)The annunciation of the angel Gabriel to Mary 2)The visitation Mary visits Elizabeth 3)The Nativity 4)The Presentaion of Jesus in the Temple 5) Finding the Child Jesus in the Temple after looking for three days.THE SORROWFUL MYSTERYS ARE 1)Tthe Agony in the Garden 2)The scurging at the pillar 3) The crowning with thorns 4)Jesus carries His Cross 5) The crucifixion The Glorious mysteries 1)The Resurrection of Jesus 2) the Ascention of Jesus 3) The Holy Spirit descending on the apostles and Mary 4) the assumption of Mary 5) the crowning of Mary see Revalations:) The luminous mystreys 1) the babtism of Jesus 2) the first public miracle of Jesus the wedding at Cana3) Jesus proclaims the kingdom of God is at hand 4)The transfiguration of Jesus 5) The Holy Eucharist.God Bless
 
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SavedByFaith:
Speaking of the Church being who she claims to be… (Here we go again, lol) just about every chuch you read about (especially independent fundamental baptists) **claims **to be the first church instituted by Christ. How can I know that the Catholic Church actually is this original church instituted by Christ Himself? That would help me a lot in my thought process.
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The home page of Catholic Answers has some great short tracts on this. – And others on Mary as well.

How we know the Church is THE Church is matter for another thread. Hint: look to history. Look to Scripture. See where they meet. The Church, Scripture, and history are all of a piece. I guess part of the answer about the Church (really: this is another thread) lies in how we know that Scripture is the Word of God.
 
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SavedByFaith:
Speaking of the Church being who she claims to be… (Here we go again, lol) just about every chuch you read about (especially independent fundamental baptists) **claims **to be the first church instituted by Christ. How can I know that the Catholic Church actually is this original church instituted by Christ Himself? That would help me a lot in my thought process.
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I was raised Church of Christ and they also make that claim, History tells a different story,even those who hate Christians.God Bless
 
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SavedByFaith:
. . . How can I know that the Catholic Church actually is this original church instituted by Christ Himself? That would help me a lot in my thought process.
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JMJ + OBT​
Dear SavedByFaith,

If you think you would enjoy reading a comprehensive treatment of the whole of the Catholic Church’s history, and from the perspective of a Catholic believer, then I cannot recommend the following highly enough:

History of Christendom Series by Dr. Warren H. Carroll, Ph.D.
The Founding of Christendom (to A.D. 324)
The Building of Christendom (A.D. 324-1100)
The Glory of Christendom (A.D. 1100-1517)
The Cleaving of Christendom (16th and 17th centuries)

Yet to be published by Dr. Carroll, volumes 5 and 6 in the same series:
The Revolution Against Christendom
[supposed to be published soon]

The Crisis of Christendom
[5 years from now? Pray for Dr. Carroll, whose health is ailing, that he will live long enough to complete his work]

Dr. Carroll writes great, scholarly history books in a manner that read like a good novel you just can’t put down. Also, they are filled with literally thousands of footnotes that back up his premises, analysis and conclusions. He is a Catholic (convert from atheism), and presents the truth about the history of the Church that Christ founded, including the blemishes and bright spots across the centuries.

Dr. Carroll also founded and for some time was President of Christendom College.

I hope you have a chance to read and enjoy his books, which have been his labor of love for the past 30 years.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA
 
I am pretty much in SavedByFaith’s boat, so will finally (gulp—my first forum question ever) jump into the CA waters after many lurkful (lurkish? lurquatious??) months, and respectfully tag along with one more question, if that’s OK. I’ve seen it very nearly answered for me in many Catholic resources, including other CA threads, so here goes: HOW do I draw the line? I am terrified to NOT firmly focus each time I pray, AS I pray, on the fact that I am asking for Mary’s intervention rather than going to her as a deity or sub-deity. I don’t want to be scrupulous; I realize that it’s the intention of the prayer that counts. But while I don’t want to get hung up on semantics, it’s the very verbal “shorthand” of going directly to saints expediently for help that makes me fear the slippery slope of deification on my part—“Our Lady please protect me…Saint So & So please help me with…”. I do fully understand (finally!!) that it is NOT the Catholic intention to bypass Jesus; that it is a sin to worship any saint. It’s just that the verbal shortcut seems so risky, but the “please pray for me/intervene for me/put in a good word for me” seems so clumsy every time, and it is not how most Catholic prayer to saints seems to me to be phrased. (And I’m not talking specifically about the words of the Rosary here; they are clear to me, and I have started learning it.) I know Mary herself wants this done right, with everything pointing to Her Son; it’s just that words are so powerful to me, and I want to be able to pray this new way comfortably and in total peace. Does any of this make sense?

Humor my babbling here; I swear I won’t do it again! My hands are shaking as I type this. I am at a crucial point, after a lifetime of curiosity, long study, and now finally having some lights turned on and stereotypes dispelled, of fully accepting RCC beliefs—including a sense of having Mary extremely close and ready to help me. I can practically touch Her, I want to give Her proper honor, and I would treasure Her love and most powerful prayers; I also want to learn about other saints and grow in faith through them. Everything Catholic now makes perfect, glorious sense to me—I think it really always did; so many pieces falling into place both spiritually and intellectually. But I can’t move on until I get some firm sense of how the “saint limits” are set in one’s mind on a regular prayer basis. I have prayed to God (and Mary!) for help on this, so maybe your answers will help fulfill that prayer? Like SavedByFaith, I don’t know where this long journey will end. I’m pretty lifetime-entrenched and active with my family in our protestant congregation and would have to take a conversion process s-l-o-w and easy. Nonetheless, I now know what’s missing, and CA has been an amazing source of information and hope to me as I seek; I feel like all my studies are coming alive and I’m speaking with old friends here. I just want to get started with a rosary and keep learning and praying. Thanks for listening, guys. Please forgive and correct any errors or misinformation on my part. I’m shutting up now.
 
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NamedforHer:
I am pretty much in SavedByFaith’s boat, so will finally (gulp—my first forum question ever) jump into the CA waters after many lurkful (lurkish? lurquatious??) months, and respectfully tag along with one more question, if that’s OK. I’ve seen it very nearly answered for me in many Catholic resources, including other CA threads, so here goes: HOW do I draw the line? I am terrified to NOT firmly focus each time I pray, AS I pray, on the fact that I am asking for Mary’s intervention rather than going to her as a deity or sub-deity. I don’t want to be scrupulous; I realize that it’s the intention of the prayer that counts. But while I don’t want to get hung up on semantics, it’s the very verbal “shorthand” of going directly to saints expediently for help that makes me fear the slippery slope of deification on my part—“Our Lady please protect me…Saint So & So please help me with…”. I do fully understand (finally!!) that it is NOT the Catholic intention to bypass Jesus; that it is a sin to worship any saint. It’s just that the verbal shortcut seems so risky, but the “please pray for me/intervene for me/put in a good word for me” seems so clumsy every time, and it is not how most Catholic prayer to saints seems to me to be phrased. (And I’m not talking specifically about the words of the Rosary here; they are clear to me, and I have started learning it.) I know Mary herself wants this done right, with everything pointing to Her Son; it’s just that words are so powerful to me, and I want to be able to pray this new way comfortably and in total peace. Does any of this make sense?

Humor my babbling here; I swear I won’t do it again! My hands are shaking as I type this. I am at a crucial point, after a lifetime of curiosity, long study, and now finally having some lights turned on and stereotypes dispelled, of fully accepting RCC beliefs—including a sense of having Mary extremely close and ready to help me. I can practically touch Her, I want to give Her proper honor, and I would treasure Her love and most powerful prayers; I also want to learn about other saints and grow in faith through them. Everything Catholic now makes perfect, glorious sense to me—I think it really always did; so many pieces falling into place both spiritually and intellectually. But I can’t move on until I get some firm sense of how the “saint limits” are set in one’s mind on a regular prayer basis. I have prayed to God (and Mary!) for help on this, so maybe your answers will help fulfill that prayer? Like SavedByFaith, I don’t know where this long journey will end. I’m pretty lifetime-entrenched and active with my family in our protestant congregation and would have to take a conversion process s-l-o-w and easy. Nonetheless, I now know what’s missing, and CA has been an amazing source of information and hope to me as I seek; I feel like all my studies are coming alive and I’m speaking with old friends here. I just want to get started with a rosary and keep learning and praying. Thanks for listening, guys. Please forgive and correct any errors or misinformation on my part. I’m shutting up now.
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Don’t be afraid,when you ask a freind to pray for you there is no difference.The Saints are members of the Body of Christ and Christ is not dead:) God Bless you on you journey
 
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NamedforHer:
I am pretty much in SavedByFaith’s boat, so will finally (gulp—my first forum question ever) jump into the CA waters after many lurkful (lurkish? lurquatious??) months, and respectfully tag along with one more question, if that’s OK. I’ve seen it very nearly answered for me in many Catholic resources, including other CA threads, so here goes: HOW do I draw the line? I am terrified to NOT firmly focus each time I pray, AS I pray, on the fact that I am asking for Mary’s intervention rather than going to her as a deity or sub-deity. I don’t want to be scrupulous; I realize that it’s the intention of the prayer that counts. But while I don’t want to get hung up on semantics, it’s the very verbal “shorthand” of going directly to saints expediently for help that makes me fear the slippery slope of deification on my part—“Our Lady please protect me…Saint So & So please help me with…”. I do fully understand (finally!!) that it is NOT the Catholic intention to bypass Jesus; that it is a sin to worship any saint. It’s just that the verbal shortcut seems so risky, but the “please pray for me/intervene for me/put in a good word for me” seems so clumsy every time, and it is not how most Catholic prayer to saints seems to me to be phrased. (And I’m not talking specifically about the words of the Rosary here; they are clear to me, and I have started learning it.) I know Mary herself wants this done right, with everything pointing to Her Son; it’s just that words are so powerful to me, and I want to be able to pray this new way comfortably and in total peace. Does any of this make sense?

Humor my babbling here; I swear I won’t do it again! My hands are shaking as I type this. I am at a crucial point, after a lifetime of curiosity, long study, and now finally having some lights turned on and stereotypes dispelled, of fully accepting RCC beliefs—including a sense of having Mary extremely close and ready to help me. I can practically touch Her, I want to give Her proper honor, and I would treasure Her love and most powerful prayers; I also want to learn about other saints and grow in faith through them. Everything Catholic now makes perfect, glorious sense to me—I think it really always did; so many pieces falling into place both spiritually and intellectually. But I can’t move on until I get some firm sense of how the “saint limits” are set in one’s mind on a regular prayer basis. I have prayed to God (and Mary!) for help on this, so maybe your answers will help fulfill that prayer? Like SavedByFaith, I don’t know where this long journey will end. I’m pretty lifetime-entrenched and active with my family in our protestant congregation and would have to take a conversion process s-l-o-w and easy. Nonetheless, I now know what’s missing, and CA has been an amazing source of information and hope to me as I seek; I feel like all my studies are coming alive and I’m speaking with old friends here. I just want to get started with a rosary and keep learning and praying. Thanks for listening, guys. Please forgive and correct any errors or misinformation on my part. I’m shutting up now.
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I don’t have any advice to add here, NamedforHer (Mary?), I just wanted to thank you for your beautiful post - for edifying my faith! You have my prayers for your journey.
 
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NamedforHer:
I am pretty much in SavedByFaith’s boat, so will finally (gulp—my first forum question ever) jump into the CA waters after many lurkful (lurkish? lurquatious??) months, and respectfully tag along with one more question, if that’s OK. I’ve seen it very nearly answered for me in many Catholic resources, including other CA threads, so here goes: HOW do I draw the line? I am terrified to NOT firmly focus each time I pray, AS I pray, on the fact that I am asking for Mary’s intervention rather than going to her as a deity or sub-deity. I don’t want to be scrupulous; I realize that it’s the intention of the prayer that counts. But while I don’t want to get hung up on semantics, it’s the very verbal “shorthand” of going directly to saints expediently for help that makes me fear the slippery slope of deification on my part—“Our Lady please protect me…Saint So & So please help me with…”. I do fully understand (finally!!) that it is NOT the Catholic intention to bypass Jesus; that it is a sin to worship any saint. It’s just that the verbal shortcut seems so risky, but the “please pray for me/intervene for me/put in a good word for me” seems so clumsy every time, and it is not how most Catholic prayer to saints seems to me to be phrased. (And I’m not talking specifically about the words of the Rosary here; they are clear to me, and I have started learning it.) I know Mary herself wants this done right, with everything pointing to Her Son; it’s just that words are so powerful to me, and I want to be able to pray this new way comfortably and in total peace. Does any of this make sense?

Humor my babbling here; I swear I won’t do it again! My hands are shaking as I type this. I am at a crucial point, after a lifetime of curiosity, long study, and now finally having some lights turned on and stereotypes dispelled, of fully accepting RCC beliefs—including a sense of having Mary extremely close and ready to help me. I can practically touch Her, I want to give Her proper honor, and I would treasure Her love and most powerful prayers; I also want to learn about other saints and grow in faith through them. Everything Catholic now makes perfect, glorious sense to me—I think it really always did; so many pieces falling into place both spiritually and intellectually. But I can’t move on until I get some firm sense of how the “saint limits” are set in one’s mind on a regular prayer basis. I have prayed to God (and Mary!) for help on this, so maybe your answers will help fulfill that prayer? Like SavedByFaith, I don’t know where this long journey will end. I’m pretty lifetime-entrenched and active with my family in our protestant congregation and would have to take a conversion process s-l-o-w and easy. Nonetheless, I now know what’s missing, and CA has been an amazing source of information and hope to me as I seek; I feel like all my studies are coming alive and I’m speaking with old friends here. I just want to get started with a rosary and keep learning and praying. Thanks for listening, guys. Please forgive and correct any errors or misinformation on my part. I’m shutting up now.
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The Prayers and Meditations of Saint Anselm, trans. Sr. Benedicta Ward, S.L.G. Penguin Books, 1984.
 
JMJ + OBT​
Yikes! I just discovered that if you go to . . .

christendompress.com/,

you’ll read the following message:
Effective December 10, Intercollegiate Studies Institute Books will handle all orders for Christendom Press books.
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I can’t tell from that message whether or not the pages I linked to earlier are even supposed to be working. The webmaster probably didn’t anticipate someone like me deep-linking into the old webstore. So maybe you should shop for Dr. Carroll’s books at the following link instead:

isi.org/books/titles.aspx?SBy=Author&SFor=carroll,
 
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itsjustdave1988:
No. Think of Original Sin as the lack of the Original Justice that Adam and Eve had. Surely God can create a man and a woman without the stain of sin. He did so with Adam and Eve. However, as a just punishment, God removed some supernatural and preternatural gifts from Adam and Eve, and also kept them from Adam’s progeny. The natural gifts remained.

With Mary, because of her role as the Mother of Christ, God intervened and gave to her the same original justice (supernatural grace) that Eve had. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the sinlessness of Christ.

Christ, just like Mary, was born of a human mother. So, Jesus was human. However, unlike any other human, Jesus was also Divine, eternally begotten of the Father. Instead of him needing the gift of supernatural grace, Jesus WAS grace itself. The hypostatic (personal) union of Divine and human nature within Christ is why Jesus was sinless. This has nothing to do with human natural generation.
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Mary’s sinlessness was somewhat of a requirement. Not that Jesus would have inherited sin from the womb but His experience of human love would have lacked perfection. He would have been reduced to teaching entirely without the experience of perfect human love. How could He have taught only a good tree can produce good fruit if Mary had sin? Because God chose to conform to the order He established, Mary had to be sinless. There are other reasons for Mary’s sinlessness as well. John the baptists experience in the womb when the sound of Mary’s voice reached his mothers ears may have been dependent on her sinlessness, without this experience John may not have been able to live a perfect life of righteousness. That perfection was required to make a straight way for the Lord as well. Because of God’s choice to work within the order pre-established from the beginning Mary’s sinlessness was a necessity just as the virgin birth was in order to fulfill the prophecy in Genesis that uses the word “seed”.

Jesus as a baby would have suffered the temptations involved in anxieties that are coped with by the rest of humanity by distorting reality. This would have created difficulties He was spared by Mary’s sinlessness.

Because of God’s choice to work within the order pre-established from the beginning Mary’s sinlessness was a necessity.
 
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NamedforHer:
I am pretty much in SavedByFaith’s boat, . . . HOW do I draw the line? I am terrified to NOT firmly focus each time I pray, AS I pray, on the fact that I am asking for Mary’s intervention rather than going to her as a deity or sub-deity. I don’t want to be scrupulous;
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Yo! NamedforHer! RELAX!

Take it easy. Talk to Jesus. Trust me: The best way you can honor Mary is to love her Son. (She has his picture right next to yours on her refrigerator!)

You are wonderful to want to immerse yourself in all the riches of Catholic spirituality, but Mary and the Saints are members of the family, and they’ll understand if you’re like the new bride who may need a little time to fit into the family customs and culture.

Do what you are drawn to do. Devotions are for your edification, not to make you uneasy. It is enough at this stage that you understand the appropriate relations in the Communion of Saints.

God love you. Hugs.
 
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Benadam:
Mary’s sinlessness was somewhat of a requirement. Not that Jesus would have inherited sin from the womb but His experience of human love would have lacked perfection. He would have been reduced to teaching entirely without the experience of perfect human love. How could He have taught only a good tree can produce good fruit if Mary had sin? Because God chose to conform to the order He established, Mary had to be sinless. There are other reasons for Mary’s sinlessness as well. John the baptists experience in the womb when the sound of Mary’s voice reached his mothers ears may have been dependent on her sinlessness, without this experience John may not have been able to live a perfect life of righteousness. That perfection was required to make a straight way for the Lord as well. Because of God’s choice to work within the order pre-established from the beginning Mary’s sinlessness was a necessity just as the virgin birth was in order to fulfill the prophecy in Genesis that uses the word “seed”.

Jesus as a baby would have suffered the temptations involved in anxieties that are coped with by the rest of humanity by distorting reality. This would have created difficulties He was spared by Mary’s sinlessness.

Because of God’s choice to work within the order pre-established from the beginning Mary’s sinlessness was a necessity.
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This is the simplest and most lucid thing I have ever read on this subject. Kudos, Benadam
 
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NamedforHer:
I am pretty much in SavedByFaith’s boat, so will finally (gulp—my first forum question ever) jump into the CA waters after many lurkful (lurkish? lurquatious??) months, and respectfully tag along with one more question, if that’s OK. I’ve seen it very nearly answered for me in many Catholic resources, including other CA threads, so here goes: HOW do I draw the line? I am terrified to NOT firmly focus each time I pray, AS I pray, on the fact that I am asking for Mary’s intervention rather than going to her as a deity or sub-deity.
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sancta.org/rosary/how.html

Maybe as I heard one time if you see, Rosary means “Crown of Roses”
If we think of every Our Father as a White rose along with every Hail Mary as a Red rose, then we offer these to Mary to place at the throne of God.
Also I’m wondering do some understand the Hail Mary,
http://www.sancta.org/art/rosa.gif** HAIL MARY **
Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed are thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

The first part is the Angel Gabriels message, the second part is the response of Her cousin Elizabeth, and the third part was added by the Church.

Also we always open and close our prayers by making the sign of the cross, “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit amen”.
So we say our prayers in Gods name, we never exclude God in our prayers.
Some only see the Hail Marys and forget about the rest of the prayers, like **SIGN OF THE CROSS---- ****APOSTLES’ CREED— OUR FATHER---- GLORY BE TO THE FATHER---- HAIL, HOLY QUEEN **
http://www.sancta.org/art/rosa.gif After each decade say the following prayer requested by the Blessed Virgin Mary at Fatima: “O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who have most need of your mercy.”

Actually the Rose can teach us a lot about life, if we want the good things in the next life.
Put your hand in to pick a rose and the chances are you make be cut by a thorn, there are always thorns among the roses.
I wonder why we have Saint Teresa of the Roses, I don’t know any Lady that doesn’t like Roses.
**God Bless NamedforHer. **

http://www.rosarian.com/graphics/images/rose.jpg
 
Thanks for all your encouraging responses! Taking chill pill as we speak; will pursue the further reading and other wise words of counsel…Many Blessings.

M.
 
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