G
Genesis315
Guest
The arsenic added to the bread would have made the matter invalid, and thus the consecration would have been invalid. The priest was right to get out of there.
- Status
T
teresas1979
Guest
Hi Genesis
It was a joke I was sent, meant to add a little humour to the thread. I stated that I didn’t believe it and that was its sole intention, to get people to lighten up a bit. I actually posted my serious point about why only Catholic priests may consecrate afterwards. I wasn’t poking fun at the real presence, but at what non Catholics see it as…
It was a joke I was sent, meant to add a little humour to the thread. I stated that I didn’t believe it and that was its sole intention, to get people to lighten up a bit. I actually posted my serious point about why only Catholic priests may consecrate afterwards. I wasn’t poking fun at the real presence, but at what non Catholics see it as…
C
Contarini
Guest
Well, if it was “just a symbol,” then the earliest Christians to speak plainly on the subject got it horribly wrong. You are setting up false alternatives: “literally Jesus’ body” or “just a symbol.” Both of these are false, in my opinion, although the latter is far more false than the former.
Christ can be present in the Eucharist in all sorts of ways. I don’t think how He is present is the vital question. The main point is to affirm that He is present.
In Christ,
Edwin
P.S. I’m an Episcopalian by affiliation, so don’t take me to be speaking for Catholicism!
G
Genesis315
Guest
Haha, I know it was a joke. i just didn’t want to get anyone to think the priest lost faith! Actually, your question about why can only a priest do the consecration might make for a good thread on its own.
J
jimmy
Guest
Its not that there is a need for a preist to turn it into the body and blood, but that is the way that God willed it. Just like God could have saved us in any other way he wanted but he chose the passion.
P
Philthy
Guest
You are correct - you don’t get it and you are missing a lot. These are words of “spirit and truth…the flesh profits nothing” You are attempting to understand according to the flesh - it will be fruitless. John 6 is the discourse you need to read over and over and over. Why don’t you try reading these tracts from the Catholic Answers homepage :catholic.com/library/Real_Presence.asp
catholic.com/library/Christ_in_the_Eucharist.asp
Also, I can’t leave without saying this: Do you realize how simplistic and limited your objection is? It is precisely the same as saying, "How can Jesus be fully God and fully man? Yet He is. Be humble in your self assessment and consider the millenia of Church Fathers and theologians who have preceeded you. Do you really think they missed your objection or do you think maybe there’s more to it than meets the eye?
Phil
J
JoeJoe
Guest
1Corinthians11:27. Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.
In reading this the Eucharist seems not to be just symbolic.
E
Exporter
Guest
Christian4Life. You have attacted the VERY HEART of CATHOLOCISM. If you asked a Catholic what is the most Holy thing that they do? They will say ,“Go to Mass”. Then what part of the Mass is most Holy? It is the Communion in which they partake of the Eucharist. The Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. Maybe you didn’t know that you have dinegrated Catholics by attacking the Eucharist. But you did. Don’t you know you are posting on a Catholic Forum? You can say odd things and actually attack the core of Catholocism (the Eucharist) but it will not make even a little dent in the Catholic Faith. WHy? Because it is the Truth.
Christian4Life. YOU SAY “It SEEMS” symbolic to me"! Of course it does, You are the interpreter!. You do not have the faculties that the Early Fathers did. If you read a book that says the Pope was in the hospital, do you believe that? Do you think you have the ability to interpret Scripture better than All the Highly educated Bishops? WAS JESUS JUST KIDDING AROUND? Oh sure, Jesus was kidding around… I don’t think so!
Getting down to business. I don’t want to get into the “Interpretation Question” with you, it has been documented. The NT tells you about laymen interpreting Scripture.When laymen interpret Scripture you get thousands of different Protestant denominations - all interpreting differently. Or maybe you think Jesus was Joking? What did He say?
Read verse 52. When the Jews murmered in verse 53 Jesus said AGAIN in strong words,“Amen,amen, I say to you : Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, you shall not have life in you”. Jesus’ answer to the murmering was to restate those strong words.
*Verse 61 The disciples said it was a hard saying. Jesus asked them, “Does this scandalise you?” Verse 67, His disciples walked with Him no more. Then Simon Peter said No, we will stay, where will we go?
When the crowds started to go away, some disciples asked Jesus, "That is a hard saying, should we call then back? What did Jesus say? He repeated what he had said. He said let them go.
At the Last Supper what did Jesus say? Did he say, “Hey guys, this is not my body and this is not my blood, just play like it is.” Is that what He said? Or did he say,“This is my body”. It could not be His Body and NOT be his body at the same time! Jesus wan’t kidding around!
But I think you, as a Protestant, who can interpret Scripture better that all the Bishops who have spent their whole lives in Scripture will ignore what Jesus really said. This Idea of symbolism is ingrained in Protestant practice. Why is that? It is because that they cannot stand to accept that Catholics are correct. They want to believe their preacher or themselves over over 1900 years of the words of the Bishops who had the Holy Spirit to help them, as Jesus promised in Matt 16:19.DO you think Jesus was joking there in Matt 16:18-19?
J
jillisamarie
Guest
Why are people trying to comprehend how bread and wine become the body and blood of Our Lord? My bible says to just believe, and then we will comprehend.
My bible says that we walk by faith and not by sight. Yet some would first see so that they can believe. My bible says without faith, it is impossible to please God, tell me, how is having faith in that which onecan understand and know through human capability?
My bible says Unless you become as children, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. Tell your child that the bread is really, truely the body blood soul divinity of Jesus Christ, simply because Jesus himself said it was, and they will just believe that and not question it.
(well, if it IS truely Jesus, then it follows reason that of corse it is soul and divinity also. That is who Jesus is) Remember, the soul is in all live bodies, without the soul, we are dead and a corspe. That is the reason that it is NOT cannabalism, simply, because Jesus is ALIVE Not DEAD!!! (Cannabalism is eating dead people)
My bible says that we walk by faith and not by sight. Yet some would first see so that they can believe. My bible says without faith, it is impossible to please God, tell me, how is having faith in that which onecan understand and know through human capability?
My bible says Unless you become as children, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. Tell your child that the bread is really, truely the body blood soul divinity of Jesus Christ, simply because Jesus himself said it was, and they will just believe that and not question it.
(well, if it IS truely Jesus, then it follows reason that of corse it is soul and divinity also. That is who Jesus is) Remember, the soul is in all live bodies, without the soul, we are dead and a corspe. That is the reason that it is NOT cannabalism, simply, because Jesus is ALIVE Not DEAD!!! (Cannabalism is eating dead people)
R
reggie
Guest
In John, before Jesus speaks of eating his flesh and drinking his blood, we have the story of the loaves and fishes, and the story of how Jesus walked on water. The purpose of these two stories is not just the miracle of Jesus feeding thousands with only enough food for a few.
In both of these instances Jesus is showing his disciples and us that He has control and mastery of creation i.e. the bread and fish and that He has control and mstery of His body i. e. walking on water. He is showing us how we can believe in the Real Presence.
It is so important to look at Scripture in light of the whole rather that just isolated passages. While individual verses are important, they must be understood in context with the whole.
Jesus is fully capable of a presence in bread while being present everywhere else. John says that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. All things came to being through him and without him not one thing came into being. If this is true, then why is it so impossible to believe that the Word who raised man from the dust, could make himself present in bread and wine without altering the appearance of them?
Jesus, I trust in You.
In both of these instances Jesus is showing his disciples and us that He has control and mastery of creation i.e. the bread and fish and that He has control and mstery of His body i. e. walking on water. He is showing us how we can believe in the Real Presence.
It is so important to look at Scripture in light of the whole rather that just isolated passages. While individual verses are important, they must be understood in context with the whole.
Jesus is fully capable of a presence in bread while being present everywhere else. John says that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. All things came to being through him and without him not one thing came into being. If this is true, then why is it so impossible to believe that the Word who raised man from the dust, could make himself present in bread and wine without altering the appearance of them?
Jesus, I trust in You.
- Status