The Book of Enoch

[mercytruth]

Considering the influence of the book of Enoch on the NT writers and on the patristic writers of the early church, should it be included in discussions regarding fallen angels, the Messiah, apocaplytic literature, and of eschatology?

I would really appreciate some honest replies to this question from Christians of all denominations.

newadvent.org/cathen/01602a.htm

just one non-catholic site collating verses from the book of Enoch with the NT:

alaskandreams.net/ekklesia/Book%20of%20Enoch%20NT%20Verses.htm

Thank you and God’s peace

micah

 

[aidanbradypop]

While early Christian leaders did quote from it quite often, when the bishops all gathered to decide on biblical canon, it just didn’t make the cut. It was too esoteric for some and for others it did not hold up. When closely read by those who lead the Church, it was found to have a number of theological errors.

Still, it’s a great read. Ancient Astronaut guys love it. lol

 

[mercytruth]

While early Christian leaders did quote from it quite often, when the bishops all gathered to decide on biblical canon, it just didn’t make the cut. It was too esoteric for some and for others it did not hold up. When closely read by those who lead the Church, it was found to have a number of theological errors.

Still, it’s a great read. Ancient Astronaut guys love it. lol

Thanks. I was not really asking whether this book should have been included in the canon of scriptures, (eventhough it is part of the canon of the Orthodox Ethiopian Church). I was wondering to what degree apostolic Christianity either reflects, or was influenced by this book?

 

[JohnVIII]

Thanks. I was not really asking whether this book should have been included in the canon of scriptures, (eventhough it is part of the canon of the Orthodox Ethiopian Church). I was wondering to what degree apostolic Christianity either reflects, or was influenced by this book?

I think you may be wrong about the book being in the canon of the Orthodox Ethiopian Church, but I could be wrong too. Never the less . . .

My two bits worth on this is that the Book of Enoch speaks of angles ‘successfully’ mating with human women. But, you see, ancient Gnostic Christian authorities say that this was attempted by the angles, but ‘unsuccessfully’. So I wonder if even any of the early Gnostic groups would accept it as scripture. It was, of course, not included in the Apostolicon either.

 

[mercytruth]

I think you may be wrong about the book being in the canon of the Orthodox Ethiopian Church, but I could be wrong too. Never the less . . .

My two bits worth on this is that the Book of Enoch speaks of angles ‘successfully’ mating with human women. But, you see, ancient Gnostic Christian authorities say that this was attempted by the angles, but ‘unsuccessfully’. So I wonder if even any of the early Gnostic groups would accept it as scripture. It was, of course, not included in the Apostolicon either.

The book of Enoch is part of the canon of the Orthodox Ethiopian Church.

ethiopianorthodox.org/english/canonical/books.html

The Nephilim being the offspring of fallen angels and of women is not of gnostic origin.
It was professed by Philo, Josephus, Justin Martyr, Lactantius, Tertullian, Eusebius and others. It is implied to be so in the epistle of Jude of our own canon.

mt.net/~watcher/enoch5.html

Without getting stuck on the issue of fallen angels, there are other phrases within the book of Enoch which have a bearing on understanding the meaning of Messiah described as “the Son of Man”, and as the 'Elect", and also possibly as the "Lord of glory". A phrase that can not be found in the Tanakh, but is found in I Corinthians and in the epistle of James. Not to mention other Jewish ideas of eschatology.

The fact remains, the book of Enoch is very Jewish in its origin, rather than being of Greek thought. This should be informative in understanding the Jewish roots, and Jewish time of our Christian faith.

God’s peace

micah

 

[Anna_Scott]

Considering the influence of the book of Enoch on the NT writers and on the patristic writers of the early church, should it be included in discussions regarding fallen angels. . .

Micah,

I’ve always been puzzled by the Biblical reference to the Nephilim.

I was getting ready to start a thread on the Nephilim to ask for information–found yours first.

Genesis 6:1-8 (NRSV-CE)

6 When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abidea] in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.
Footnotes:
a. Genesis 6:3 Meaning of Heb uncertain

---

A passage in the N.T. made me think of the Nephilim reference. What do angels have to do with women covering their heads? Is this connected to the Genesis passage regarding “sons of God going in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them”? Does this indicate a risk for human women?

1 Corinthians 11:2-16 (NRSV-CE)
5 but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head—it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or to be shaved, she should wear a veil. 7 For a man ought not to have his head veiled, since he is the image and reflectiona] of God; but woman is the reflection**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians 11:5-10&version=NRSVCE#fen-NRSVCE-32864b”)] of man. 8 Indeed, man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9 Neither was man created for the sake of woman, but woman for the sake of man. 10 For this reason a woman ought to have a symbol ofc] authority on her head,d] because of the angels.
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 11:7 Or glory
b. 1 Corinthians 11:7 Or glory
c. 1 Corinthians 11:10 Gk lacks a symbol of
d. 1 Corinthians 11:10 Or have freedom of choice regarding her head

---

The Book of Enoch talks about angels/watchers who took human wives and had children who were giants.

There are numerous references to giants/descendants of giants in the Old Testament.

I would really like to understand the meaning of these references.

I have high hopes for your thread.

Anna

 

[mercytruth]

Micah,

I’ve always been puzzled by the Biblical reference to the Nephilim.

I was getting ready to start a thread on the Nephilim to ask for information–found yours first.

Genesis 6:1-8 (NRSV-CE)

6 When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abidea] in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.
Footnotes:
a. Genesis 6:3 Meaning of Heb uncertain

---

A passage in the N.T. made me think of the Nephilim reference. What do angels have to do with women covering their heads? Is this connected to the Genesis passage regarding “sons of God going in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them”? Does this indicate a risk for human women?

1 Corinthians 11:2-16 (NRSV-CE)
5 but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head—it is one and the same thing as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or to be shaved, she should wear a veil. 7 For a man ought not to have his head veiled, since he is the image and reflectiona] of God; but woman is the reflection**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians 11:5-10&version=NRSVCE#fen-NRSVCE-32864b”)] of man. 8 Indeed, man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9 Neither was man created for the sake of woman, but woman for the sake of man. 10 For this reason a woman ought to have a symbol ofc] authority on her head,d] because of the angels.
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 11:7 Or glory
b. 1 Corinthians 11:7 Or glory
c. 1 Corinthians 11:10 Gk lacks a symbol of
d. 1 Corinthians 11:10 Or have freedom of choice regarding her head

---

The Book of Enoch talks about angels/watchers who took human wives and had children who were giants.

There are numerous references to giants/descendants of giants in the Old Testament.

I would really like to understand the meaning of these references.

I have high hopes for your thread.

Anna

Anna,

I did not want to especially dwell on the particulars of the Nephilim, but rather to discuss the possibility that the book of Enoch is a window into which one might understand Jesus, the apostles, and the apocaplyptic/eschatalogical Judaism within the first century church.

When Jesus said, “And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.” was he referring to the book of Enoch as it relates to the Nephilim and earth’s eventual deliverance by the ‘Son of Man’?

To be honest, reading the book of Enoch is disconcerting to me, it does unsettle me. I would rather not think it. It just seems that there are too many NT references to the book of Enoch not to consider the implications.

I do know that Philo and Josephus were Jewish authorities of the 1st century who believed that giants were the offspring of these fallen angels. I do know that Justin Martyr, (former philosopher) Irenaeus, Tertullian, Lactantius (former philosopher), Eusebius and others also considered this to be true. Some of these patristic fathers believed that demons were the ‘spirits’ of the giants. Some of them believed that these ‘giants’ were the Greek ‘gods’ and/or demons of Greek mythology.

As far as your scripture regarding the head covering of women, there are some who put forth that theory today, but I do not know of any early church father who made that connection.

My (guarded) interest is in NT exegesis which can show the influence, or non-influence of
the book of Enoch on the eschatological aspect of the gospel, of the identity and description of the Messiah, and on some of the passages which deal with the whole subject of fallen angels and their evil influence.

God’s peace

micah

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna,

I did not want to especially dwell on the particulars of the Nephilim, but rather to discuss the possibility that the book of Enoch is a window into which one might understand Jesus, the apostles, and the apocaplyptic/eschatalogical Judaism within the first century church.

When Jesus said, “And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.” was he referring to the book of Enoch as it relates to the Nephilim and earth’s eventual deliverance by the ‘Son of Man’?

To be honest, reading the book of Enoch is disconcerting to me, it does unsettle me. I would rather not think it. It just seems that there are too many NT references to the book of Enoch not to consider the implications.

I do know that Philo and Josephus were Jewish authorities of the 1st century who believed that giants were the offspring of these fallen angels. I do know that Justin Martyr, (former philosopher) Irenaeus, Tertullian, Lactantius (former philosopher), Eusebius and others also considered this to be true. Some of these patristic fathers believed that demons were the ‘spirits’ of the giants. Some of them believed that these ‘giants’ were the Greek ‘gods’ and/or demons of Greek mythology.

As far as your scripture regarding the head covering of women, there are some who put forth that theory today, but I do not know of any early church father who made that connection.

My (guarded) interest is in NT exegesis which can show the influence, or non-influence of
the book of Enoch on the eschatological aspect of the gospel, of the identity and description of the Messiah, and on some of the passages which deal with the whole subject of fallen angels and their evil influence.

God’s peace

micah

OK, Micah,
I appreciate the information. I’ll follow along.

Anna

 

[smaneck]

The Nephilim being the offspring of fallen angels and of women is not of gnostic origin.
It was professed by Philo, Josephus, Justin Martyr, Lactantius, Tertullian, Eusebius and others. It is implied to be so in the epistle of Jude of our own canon.

Jude is actually quoting from the Book of Enoch.

 

[mercytruth]

OK, Micah,
I appreciate the information. I’ll follow along.

Anna

I have come to a preliminary conclusion that Enoch, Elijah, the apostle Paul, and John of Revelation all have something in common. They were all ‘caught up’ to the third heaven, or ‘Paradise’ where ‘mysteries’ were revealed to them. These apocalyptic revelations are principally with regard to eschatology. (As a side note, Irenaeus states that Elijah and Enoch are currently dwelling in Paradise).

St. Paul refers to several ‘mysteries’ in his epistles. Our Lord Jesus Christ is of course central to these revelations. His frequent referal of himself as the "Son of Man’ seems to be a reference to the revelations that were given to Enoch including Enoch’s vision of the
‘Son of Man’.

I think it can be safe to say, that one of these ‘mysteries’ is the eschatological salvation of Israel as a nation along with the glorified bodily resurrection of the saints.

‘musterion’: **hidden thing, secret, mystery
generally mysteries, religious secrets, confided only to the initiated and not to ordinary mortals a hidden or secret thing, not obvious to the understanding a hidden purpose or counsel

secret will of God: the secret counsels which govern God in dealing with the righteous, which are hidden from ungodly and wicked men but plain to the godly
in rabbinic writings, it denotes the mystic or hidden sense of an OT saying of an image or form seen in a vision of a dream**

biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/musterion.html

A final note. Contemplative prayer as explained by such Catholic saints as St. John of the Cross, and St. Therese of Avila seems to be the usual means by which these
‘mysteries’ are revealed through the Holy Spirit. For me to attempt to explain these things rationally and through the scriptures is not possible.

I think this explains my hesitancy in bringing this subject to the forefront. However, I do think that the book of Enoch is an important adjunct to the Book of Revelations, to the ‘mysteries’ of St. Paul, and to the parables and apocalyptic teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God’s peace be with you

micah