The Book of James

[Anna_Scott]

I think James could be summed up by saying, ‘We’re saved by what we do with what we’re given, what we do with the grace we’re given, which begins with having faith but isn’t limited to faith, since that faith must be expressed: “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love”, as Galatians 5:6 puts it. Love must be expressed. . .

. . .God’s interested in your heart, and that’s what He judges by according to scripture, and Matt 25:31-46 makes it clear just where our hearts should be, what holiness really “looks” like. IOW, he agrees with James that love must be the impetus for our holiness; love is our holiness. Which is why he could say in 1 Cor 13:2: **“If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.” **

fhansen,

Agreed.

Without God’s Grace, we are stuck in narcissism----which seems to have reached epidemic levels. Without God’s Grace, we are unable to love God and our fellow man; and as you said, without love, we are nothing.

Peace,
Anna

 

[fhansen]

The notion of cutting a little thing was akin to embarking on the Old Covenant. Paul made the point that the Old Covenant is dead likening it to a spouse. Read Romans 7, so that a bride whose spouse is dead is free to marry another and that other is the New Covenant. The notion of impressing was not the issue it was by engaging in the Old Covenant via cutting the thing off as that was entrance into that Covenant and in Romans 6 Paul points out that by Baptism you enter into the New. The Old Covenant with “works of the law” will not save you but the New Covenant through Baptism and grace and Faith will save you. Faith is obedient as Paul points out and Faith is action.

In any case the Law justified no one; God’s demanding much more from us-and wants more for us-than the OC/Law was capable of accomplishing.

 

[CopticChristian]

Well, at least you recognize that there have been over the centuries many Catholics who disputed or questioned these books. Some seem to think Luther made this up all by himself, or worse, simply blame Luther because it is convenient or fits their apologetics.

If you rest in Trent regarding the canon of scripture, that’s fine. It seems to me that the long expanse of the Church chooses to accept James, dispite the early Church’s concerns about it. I do, too. In fact, I think it is appropriate to accept the D-C’s, too, though be mindful that these, too, were disputed up until and including Trent.

Jon

EDIT: I just want to make one other comment. By saying you go with God, there is an implication that those who throughout the history of the Church have questioned these books were not “going with God”. I, personally, cannot bring myself to accept that of men like Eusebius or St. Jerome, Luther or Cajetan. In fact, up until Trent, these debates and questions were quite allowed by the Church. No one here, asfar as I can see, is going against God.

"And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. And Jesus answered and said unto them, hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." —Mark 1:1-12

Let me ask you this. Is the dispute more relevant than the decision?

 

[CopticChristian]

So, let me ask you this. Who is not “going with God”; Orthodoxy with their various canons greater than that of the west, or Rome with their smaller version of the canon?

Jon

This is an interesting question that has never been properly answered however I have searched. I have seen postings from fellow Christians that Trent laid out the minimal not maximal books to be entertained as Scripture.

But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate

If you read the above from Trent and then compare this decree with the Oriental and Orthodox canon noted below

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Bible

then you will see that the Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox do accept said books. This I find to be clever on the part of the Church as is so with the all the documents of the Church. It says nothing about including more only about those that my think about including less.

I believe that I have answered my own question and yours.

 

[JonNC]

This is an interesting question that has never been properly answered however I have searched. I have seen postings from fellow Christians that Trent laid out the minimal not maximal books to be entertained as Scripture.

If you read the above from Trent and then compare this decree with the Oriental and Orthodox canon noted below

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Bible

then you will see that the Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox do accept said books. This I find to be clever on the part of the Church as is so with the all the documents of the Church. It says nothing about including more only about those that my think about including less.

I believe that I have answered my own question and yours.

I don’t know about that. Think about it, if Trent is infallible in determining the canon of scripture, how can they say “well, maybe other books are canon, too”? Unless the canon isn’t closed… But then, since the Lutheran Confessions never mention a definite list, sounds like we agree on that score.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

"And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. And Jesus answered and said unto them, hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." —Mark 1:1-12

Let me ask you this. Is the dispute more relevant than the decision?

What is the decision regarding the canon?

Jon

 

[karaleigh]

Hey, Ya’ll,

Yesterday I finished the Bible study “James: Mercy Triumphs,” written by Beth Moore and her daughter, Melissa Fitzpatrick. (No, I am not telling you that you have to do this study or that you have to like Beth Moore). As soon as I completed the final lesson, I broke down in sobs. This is not my usual reaction to finishing a Bible study.

I tried to pray, but couldn’t even find the words. It was one of those “Holy Spirit groaning” kind of moments, you know what I mean? I sensed God saying to me, “It’s okay.” And then I realized what touched me so deeply about this Bible study: James got it. I mean, he GOT IT. l’m not saying that the other authors of Scripture didn’t understand, but there’s something different about James. He saw the intimate connection between faith and works. He had no patience for all talk and no walk.

Protestants are pretty uncomfortable with James, but this, by far, has been my favorite Bible study. I want to do this thing, live this life of faith. Really LIVE it, you know? Words are hollow and meaningless when they aren’t shored up by the hands of active love.

I’d love to hear what you all think about the Book of James, or about other books of Scripture that move you, especially as we move closer to Holy Week and Easter.

Book of James is good work. He really knew what it is to stand still as the shadow of the Lord passes by. People can be ignorant to scripture’s intention.
:coffeeread:

 

[CopticChristian]

I don’t know about that. Think about it, if Trent is infallible in determining the canon of scripture, how can they say “well, maybe other books are canon, too”? Unless the canon isn’t closed… But then, since the Lutheran Confessions never mention a definite list, sounds like we agree on that score.

Jon

Here it is again.

But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate

The Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox receive as sacred and canonical said books entire with all their parts as they have been used and read in the Catholic Church and as they are contained in the old Latin Vulgate.

Do you see any maybe there?

 

[CopticChristian]

What is the decision regarding the canon?

Jon

This posting was concerning disputing James and you have generalized it to the notion of canon. The canon is the canon the dispute is not relevant to me. Perhaps it is to you. I respect that.

 

[JonNC]

This posting was concerning disputing James and you have generalized it to the notion of canon. The canon is the canon the dispute is not relevant to me. Perhaps it is to you. I respect that.

Actually, it isn’t. Another poster brought up the issue regarding Luther’s view of James. I responded to it because said poster provided an incomplete quote. The fact is James is a part of the canon of scripture.

Jon

 

[CopticChristian]

Actually, it isn’t. Another poster brought up the issue regarding Luther’s view of James. I responded to it because said poster provided an incomplete quote. The fact is James is a part of the canon of scripture.

Jon

Fact. I like Fact. When I have what is considered Fact then the question is whereby do we establish that fact? The disputes as you know would be whether this is fact or not. This fact has a cause as there is no one cause that exists as fact unto itself except the first cause. I like fact.