The Book of Mormon... have you read it?

[ParkerD]

What is that old story…I can’t remember who wrote it…but it goes like this:

A young couple were considering a move to a new town. They asked an older gentleman who had lived there all his life what the inhabitants of the new town were like. He asked them a question first; 'What were the people like in your old town?"

“Why,” they said, “they are friendly, helpful, kind and fun to be around.”

“You’ll find the people in this town much the same.” He said.

Awhile later another young couple came by and asked the same question: “What are the folks like here?”

He asked his question, too; “What were the people like in your old town?”

This couple said “They were unfriendly, judgmental, standoffish and mean.”

“You will find the people in this town much the same.” He said.

Diana,
Thanks for the story–a good one!

 

[bacalzoLDS]

To: Zerinus
//The Book of Mormon is true. The Spirit of the Lord witnesses to me that it is. You cannot “prove” that the Bible is true any more than you can “prove” that the Book of Mormon is true. If your faith is based on such “evidence,” then it is hollow, and a figment of your imagination. //

Yes, the Book of Mormon is true we could go round and round and beat a dead horse. Yipee!! Yeee haw!

I don’t want to go there, but the thread did say “The Book of Mormon… have you read it?”

I answered the question. Yes.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

You people amaze me. I wouldn’t be afraid to attend a Catholic service–my goodness. Of course Jennifer shouldn’t attend an LDS service. She would bring too much baggage with her, just as each of you having commented about her not attending. It’s just not that big of a deal to attend a church service, but my goodness if somebody has that much superstition they would think every bad thing that happened the following week was caused because they attended a church service. It’s ridiculous to think God works that way in people’s lives.

My prayer about Jennifer would be that she feels confident enough in herself that she can and does decide for herself what she does with her life.

Hi ParkerD,

You used my one of my least favorite words: Ridiculous. It is so overused. Maybe you didn’t really mean it. I’ll proceed as though you did.

There are very few things that lots of people do or believe in that are worthy of ridicule. I respect your point of view when you say “It’s just not that big of a deal to attend a church service.” I can almost always think of reasonable arguments for the positions with which I disagree. Rather than say someone is ridiculous, in my opinion, if you really understood the different formation that some of us might have received in regards to how we may sin against our own faith, or scandalize another, you could perhaps arrive at the place not where you agreed, but to where you could admit that we rise above the level of a laughing stock.

Regards,

Rory

 

[DonLeon]

At an airport, there was a passenger who wanted to take a flight to Orlando,
Florida. Somehow, or other, this passenger had mistakenly boarded a plane
for San Diego, California. This passenger truly believed the airplane was
headed to Florida. Settling and snuggling into a seat, the passenger was
soon asleep, and slept through the entire flight. When the plane landed in
California, the passenger awoke and de-planed with the rest of the passen-
gers. Imagine the passenger’s surprise to learn that the plane’s destination
was California and not Florida. This passenger truly believed that the air-
plane was Florida bound. Did the passenger take the next flight to Florida?
Or did the passenger decide to stay in California?

This story reminds me of you members of the LDS church, You all took that
flight, deciding to stay, and ended up in the LDS church, instead of returning
to the TRUE church which Jesus built on Peter and has lasted, unchanged,
for almost 2000 years.

This my last post on the subject.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[zerinus]

This story reminds me of you members of the LDS church, You all took that flight, deciding to stay, and ended up in the LDS church, instead of returning to the TRUE church which Jesus built on Peter and has lasted, unchanged,
for almost 2000 years.

I didn’t find your parable all that inspiring. I like the Lord’s parables better:

Matthew 13:

44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Mormons are like those who found those treasures, and aren’t about to give it up for the snide remarks of detractors.

 

[usemelord]

Yesterday I issued a challenge to my Mormon friends which was to pick one or the other, the Bible or the Book of Mormon. A pretty simple request: one or the other. In reviewing subsequent posts by a few LDS contributors to this post, I was not surprised to read a lot of equivocation, rhetorical dancing around the bush if you will. For example, dianaiad (and you do know I respect you) responded by saying that the Bible is made up of many books as is the Book of Mormon, so how does one choose one book of the Bible or one book of the Book of Mormon over another? That was not the question. It is understood and a given that both the Bible and the Book of Mormon are made up of many books. Again, at the risk of being redundant, the question is “You have to pick one or the other. Which do you choose?” (1) the Bible, or (2) the Book of Mormon. I invite our LDS brethren to please tell me, is it #1 or #2?

 

[ParkerD]

At an airport, there was a passenger who wanted to take a flight to Orlando,
Florida. Somehow, or other, this passenger had mistakenly boarded a plane
for San Diego, California. This passenger truly believed the airplane was
headed to Florida. Settling and snuggling into a seat, the passenger was
soon asleep, and slept through the entire flight. When the plane landed in
California, the passenger awoke and de-planed with the rest of the passen-
gers. Imagine the passenger’s surprise to learn that the plane’s destination
was California and not Florida. This passenger truly believed that the air-
plane was Florida bound. Did the passenger take the next flight to Florida?
Or did the passenger decide to stay in California?

This story reminds me of you members of the LDS church, You all took that
flight, deciding to stay, and ended up in the LDS church, instead of returning
to the TRUE church which Jesus built on Peter and has lasted, unchanged,
for almost 2000 years.

This my last post on the subject.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Don Leon,
We’re not on a blindfolded flight. We can see all the landmarks that let us know we are headed to the promised destination. The landmarks are just as the Bible said they would be, and are familiar and bring happiness along the way. This is no guessing game–no “what if we’re on the wrong plane?” kind of experience. The promises are sure, and the landmarks are just as sure. They are visible and familiar and evident every mile of the way.

 

[dianaiad]

I didn’t find your parable all that inspiring. I like the Lord’s parables better:

Matthew 13:

44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Mormons are like those who found those treasures, and aren’t about to give it up for the snide remarks of detractors.

A total aside, apropos of nothing at all…y’know, I’ve always had a problem with the ethics of verse 44. I mean, really…what’s this guy doing trespassing on someone else’s field, then cheating the owner? I mean, it might be one thing if he knew the worth of that treasure he hid and then paid what the treasure was worth, but then…why hide it in the first place?

Why not just show the treasure to the owner and say…I’ll give you everything I have for this?

The second example, where the merchant finds the pearl and did the same thing; there is no hint of him attempting to cheat the pearl diver over it.

Nope, that one has always bugged me a wee bit. What do y’all think?

 

[Christian55]

You people amaze me. I wouldn’t be afraid to attend a Catholic service–my goodness. Of course Jennifer shouldn’t attend an LDS service. She would bring too much baggage with her, just as each of you having commented about her not attending. It’s just not that big of a deal to attend a church service, but my goodness if somebody has that much superstition they would think every bad thing that happened the following week was caused because they attended a church service. It’s ridiculous to think God works that way in people’s lives.

My prayer about Jennifer would be that she feels confident enough in herself that she can and does decide for herself what she does with her life.

ParkerD: You have forgotten where you are. This is not a Mormon website. Your reference to us as “you people” gives us a hint of what you really think of us.

I wonder how many of the LDS Forum Members are here, because of an assignment issued by their Mormon Bishop or other leaders of the Mormon Church. I know you will deny this. I do not expect to receive an honest response.

Do you think we will just sit back and watch a fellow Christian take even one step toward the seduction of the Mormon deception, and not say a word?

This has nothing to do with “fear” or “superstition.” as you have alleged.

This is about holding fast to the Word of God, in faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

This is about guarding the good deposit entrusted to us, by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.

This is about the Christian Church paying careful attention to all the flock to care for the Church of God, obtained with the blood of Christ.

This is about warning our Christian brothers and sisters about the fierce wolves who will slip in to prowl among us.

2 Timothy 1:13-14 (ESV): 13 Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 14 By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you.
**
Acts 20:27-29 (ESV):** 27 for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. 28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. 29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. . . . .

Ephesians 6:10-12 (ESV): 10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

 

[Christian55]

At an airport, there was a passenger who wanted to take a flight to Orlando,
Florida. Somehow, or other, this passenger had mistakenly boarded a plane
for San Diego, California. This passenger truly believed the airplane was
headed to Florida. Settling and snuggling into a seat, the passenger was
soon asleep, and slept through the entire flight. When the plane landed in
California, the passenger awoke and de-planed with the rest of the passen-
gers. Imagine the passenger’s surprise to learn that the plane’s destination
was California and not Florida. This passenger truly believed that the air-
plane was Florida bound. Did the passenger take the next flight to Florida?
Or did the passenger decide to stay in California?

This story reminds me of you members of the LDS church, You all took that
flight, deciding to stay, and ended up in the LDS church, instead of returning
to the TRUE church which Jesus built on Peter and has lasted, unchanged,
for almost 2000 years.

This my last post on the subject.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Don Leon,
We’re not on a blindfolded flight. We can see all the landmarks that let us know we are headed to the promised destination. The landmarks are just as the Bible said they would be, and are familiar and bring happiness along the way. This is no guessing game–no “what if we’re on the wrong plane?” kind of experience. The promises are sure, and the landmarks are just as sure. They are visible and familiar and evident every mile of the way.

DonLeon: I’m with you on this one. I think the Mormons are in so deep that don’t realize there is a way out. So, they just keep trying to justify “their destination,” even though the fruits their world yields are so clearly against God’s Holy Word.

 

[Janet1983]

Mormons are like those who found those treasures, and aren’t about to give it up for the snide remarks of detractors.

I would compare Mormons to someone who went on a field and saw the ground glistening in the sunlight. He goes home and sells all that he owns to buy the field. After all is said and done and the field is his, he collects the glistening material just to find out that it is pyrite and that there is no gold in the area…
You are tricked into believing the fairytale of a literate, but unschooled lad and money digger.
His so called witnesses are not really trustworthy…
Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris, and David Whitmer were all excommunicated by the Mormon Church who accused them of lying, stealing, cheating, counterfeiting, defrauding, and persecuting the Mormons.

Oliver Cowdery:
One of the Mormon scriptures, Doctrine and Covenants, has God saying that it was not wise to send Oliver Cowdery, the first of the three witnesses, carrying church money and a manuscript unless someone who was honest went with him:
D&C:

Hearken unto me, saith the Lord your God, for my servant Oliver Cowdery’s sake. It is not wisdom in me that he should be entrustedwith the commandments and the moneys which he shall carry unto the land of Zion, except one go with him who will be true and faithful. D&C 69:1

He is not trustworthy? So can we trust him as a witness? How could we do that? “God” tells Joe to send someone with Oliver Cowdery because the man is just not truthful.
Oh, by the way… He later became a Methodist, and was eventually buried by a Methodist minister.

Martin Harris:
Mormon scripture went so far as to call Martin Harris, another of the three witnesses, a “wicked man” and a liar.
D&C:

Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Harmony, Pennsylvania, in the summer of 1828. Herein the Lord informs Joseph of alterations made by wicked men in the 116 manuscript pages from the translation of the “Book of Lehi,” in the Book of Mormon. These manuscript pages had been lost from the possession of Martin Harris

, to whom the sheets had been temporarily entrusted. The evil design was to await the expected retranslation of the matter covered by the stolen pages, and then to discredit the translator by showing discrepancies created by the alterations. That this wicked purpose had been conceived by the evil one, and was known to the Lord even while Mormon, the ancient Nephite historian, was making his abridgment of the accumulated plates, is shown in the Book of Mormon (The Words of Mormon 1: 3–7).
1 Now, behold, I say unto you, that because you delivered up those writings which you had power given unto you to translate by the means of the Urim and Thummim, into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them.
6 Behold they have sought to destroy you; yea, even the man in whom you have trusted has sought to destroy you.
7 And for this cause I said that he is a wicked man, for he has sought to take away the things wherewith you have been entrusted; and he has also sought to destroy your gift. D&C Introduction to Section 10, plus verses 1, 6-7

David Whitmer:
His later witness is not being accepted…

“In June 1838, God spoke to me again by His own voice from the heavens and told me to ‘separate myself from among the Latter Day Saints.’” (An Address to All Believers in Christ, p. 27, as cited by Marvin Cowan, Mormon Claims Answered, p. 46.)

“If you believe my testimony to the Book of Mormon, if you believe that God spake to us three witnesses by his own voice, then I tell you that in June, 1838, God spake to me again by his own voice from the heavens and told me to ‘separate myself from among the Latter Day Saints, for as they sought to do unto me, so it should be done unto them.’” Metcalfe, 1993, p. 176

That’s not a really reliable witness if you ask me…

It seems clear that the three witnesses did say they saw the plates. The question is, can we believe their testimony? If we can believe the statements of Joseph Smith and other Mormon leaders about the character of these three witnesses, particularly the accusations that they were liars, there is little to give us faith in The Book of Mormon other than the word of Joseph Smith himself.
We will leave the three witnesses with Joseph Smith’s blessing:

“Such characters as McLellin, John Whitmer, David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Martin Harris are too mean to mention; and we had liked to have forgotten them.” History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 232.

David Whitmer, one of the first three witnesses, wrote that all of the second group of eight witnesses who were then living, except Joseph’s father and two brothers, had left the Church of Latter-day Saints. (see An Address to All Believers in Christ, p. 28, as cited by Marvin Cowan, Mormon Claims Answered, p. 47)

All that are left are Joseph Smith’s father and his brothers… They are however family and it is likely that their brother/son was taken good care of and they are the first suspects when in comes to lying in favour of someone…

After all is said and done your salvation hinges on the word of a single man… and you bet your soul on him.

 

[Janet1983]

I forgot to add this here:

I would compare Mormons to someone who went on a field and saw the ground glistening in the sunlight. He goes home and sells all that he owns to buy the field. After all is said and done and the field is his, he collects the glistening material just to find out that it is pyrite and that there is no gold in the area…
You are tricked into believing the fairytale of a literate, but unschooled lad and money digger.
His so called witnesses are not really trustworthy…
Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris, and David Whitmer were all excommunicated by the Mormon Church who accused them of lying, stealing, cheating, counterfeiting, defrauding, and persecuting the Mormons.

Oliver Cowdery:
One of the Mormon scriptures, Doctrine and Covenants, has God saying that it was not wise to send Oliver Cowdery, the first of the three witnesses, carrying church money and a manuscript unless someone who was honest went with him:

He is not trustworthy? So can we trust him as a witness? How could we do that? “God” tells Joe to send someone with Oliver Cowdery because the man is just not truthful.
Oh, by the way… He later became a Methodist, and was eventually buried by a Methodist minister.

Martin Harris:
Mormon scripture went so far as to call Martin Harris, another of the three witnesses, a “wicked man” and a liar.

David Whitmer:
His later witness is not being accepted…

That’s not a really reliable witness if you ask me…

It seems clear that the three witnesses did say they saw the plates. The question is, can we believe their testimony? If we can believe the statements of Joseph Smith and other Mormon leaders about the character of these three witnesses, particularly the accusations that they were liars, there is little to give us faith in The Book of Mormon other than the word of Joseph Smith himself.
We will leave the three witnesses with Joseph Smith’s blessing:

David Whitmer, one of the first three witnesses, wrote that all of the second group of eight witnesses who were then living, except Joseph’s father and two brothers, had left the Church of Latter-day Saints. (see An Address to All Believers in Christ, p. 28, as cited by Marvin Cowan, Mormon Claims Answered, p. 47)

All that are left are Joseph Smith’s father and his brothers… They are however family and it is likely that their brother/son was taken good care of and they are the first suspects when in comes to lying in favour of someone…

After all is said and done your salvation hinges on the word of a single man… and you bet your soul on him.

 

[dianaiad]

ParkerD: You have forgotten where you are. This is not a Mormon website.

No. It is a 'non-Catholic religions" forum on a Catholic website. Which means that ‘you people’ is probably addressed to those who are discussing Mormonism in a negative manner.

Your reference to us as “you people” gives us a hint of what you really think of us.

I wonder how many of the LDS Forum Members are here, because of an assignment issued by their Mormon Bishop or other leaders of the Mormon Church. I know you will deny this. I do not expect to receive an honest response.

I see. you issue an absurd accusation, knowing that can’t do anything BUT deny it (it is, after all, untrue) and figure that this denial is proof that it IS true? You realize, of course, that no Bishop or any leader of the church would ever give any such assignment.

Do you think we will just sit back and watch a fellow Christian take even one step toward the seduction of the Mormon deception, and not say a word?

This has nothing to do with “fear” or “superstition.” as you have alleged.

This is about holding fast to the Word of God, in faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

This is about guarding the good deposit entrusted to us, by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.

This is about the Christian Church paying careful attention to all the flock to care for the Church of God, obtained with the blood of Christ.

This is about warning our Christian brothers and sisters about the fierce wolves who will slip in to prowl among us.

2 Timothy 1:13-14 (ESV): 13 Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 14 By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you.
**
Acts 20:27-29 (ESV):** 27 for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. 28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. 29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. . . . .

Ephesians 6:10-12 (ESV): 10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

Proverbs 1:5

 

[dianaiad]

Yesterday I issued a challenge to my Mormon friends which was to pick one or the other, the Bible or the Book of Mormon. A pretty simple request: one or the other. In reviewing subsequent posts by a few LDS contributors to this post, I was not surprised to read a lot of equivocation, rhetorical dancing around the bush if you will. For example, dianaiad (and you do know I respect you) responded by saying that the Bible is made up of many books as is the Book of Mormon, so how does one choose one book of the Bible or one book of the Book of Mormon over another? That was not the question. It is understood and a given that both the Bible and the Book of Mormon are made up of many books. Again, at the risk of being redundant, the question is “You have to pick one or the other. Which do you choose?” (1) the Bible, or (2) the Book of Mormon. I invite our LDS brethren to please tell me, is it #1 or #2?

Here’s the problem with your question: it is a false dichotomy. My answer is, I refuse to choose. Your question is like asking a man which eye he would rather poke out, or which of his children he would rather murder.

The question itself is an impossible one. Since there is no possible reason I would ever have to choose between the two books, there is no sense in the question. The answer is…both. Or, as I mentioned earlier, I would pick up my ‘quad’ and say…I choose this.

But OK, I’ll ask you, again, the question I asked before (and you did not answer.) Which book will you throw out of the bible…Mathew? Luke? John? Acts? You MUST choose.

I think you’ll get the point, if you think about it.

 

[Janet1983]

Here’s the problem with your question: it is a false dichotomy. My answer is, I refuse to choose. Your question is like asking a man which eye he would rather poke out, or which of his children he would rather murder.

The question itself is an impossible one. Since there is no possible reason I would ever have to choose between the two books, there is no sense in the question. The answer is…both. Or, as I mentioned earlier, I would pick up my ‘quad’ and say…I choose this.

But OK, I’ll ask you, again, the question I asked before (and you did not answer.) Which book will you throw out of the bible…Mathew? Luke? John? Acts? You MUST choose.

I think you’ll get the point, if you think about it.

Maybe just rephrasing it will do…
If the BoM and the Bible were contradicting each other in a statement, which one would you accept as truth if any?

(In case of a contradiciton only one can be right. Which one is accepted to be more reliable?)

 

[dianaiad]

Maybe just rephrasing it will do…
If the BoM and the Bible were contradicting each other in a statement, which one would you accept as truth if any?

(In case of a contradiciton only one can be right. Which one is accepted to be more reliable?)

(sigh)

You still don’t get it. We. do. not.believe. they. contradict. each.other. In a case where a contradiction SEEMS to be happening, I have found that the contradiction is pure eisegesis…there is always a reconciliation between the two.

therefore we are back at the same answer…and I have a question for you:

If you have a letter from Paul, and a letter from Peter, and they contradict each other, which would you pick?

 

[ParkerD]

Christian55,
My comment was directed to the two people who had addressed my comment about attending an LDS service as a visitor. You were one of them. I was not addressing the website in general, or Catholics in general, but two people, one of whom I didn’t know was Catholic.

By the way, the “wolves” did come, and they didn’t spare the flock, and it happened in about 100 AD-200 AD.

 

[Janet1983]

(sigh)

You still don’t get it. We. do. not.believe. they. contradict. each.other. In a case where a contradiction SEEMS to be happening, I have found that the contradiction is pure eisegesis…there is always a reconciliation between the two.

therefore we are back at the same answer…and I have a question for you:

If you have a letter from Paul, and a letter from Peter, and they contradict each other, which would you pick?

The letters don’t contradict each other… but the Bible and the BoM do…

You have already decided if you are truly Mormon… if the Bible and the BoM contradict each other you are to believe that the Bible is not translated correctly and therefore you have to choose…

”We believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God.” (9th article of faith)

Notice that the BoM does not have any annotations about the correct translation even though there have been clear changes in the past that are far more than just adaptation to the language of the time.
But to continue the claims, I will list you a few problems that the comparison between the BoM and the Bible shows…

Problem #1 – The first Christians

• “And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.” 40AD - Acts 11:26
• Alma 46:13-16 supposedly written in 73BC refers to Nephites as Christians.

Problem #2: Who is the head of the Church?

• Jesus is only head of Church - Colossians 1:18
• Joseph Smith is head of Church - D&C 28:2-6

Problem #3: Where was Jesus born?

• ”Jesus was born in Bethlehem” - Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:1; Matthew 21:17
• “He shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem” - Alma 7:10

Problem #5: Spirit or flesh?

• God is spirit without flesh &bones – John 4:24; Lk 24:39
• God has flesh and bones like man - D&C 130:22

Problem #6: All the earth or not?

• At the tower of Babel “the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth” - Genesis 11:9
• At the tower of Babel ”Jared and his brothers were not confounded” - Ether 1:33-37

Problem #7: Do we already have a sinful nature when we are only children?

• Yes - Psalm 51:5
• No - Moroni 8:8

Problem #8: Good or bad?

• Adam’s transgression was a sinful act of rebellion that unleashed the power of sin. - Genesis 3:16-19; Romans 5:12; 8:20-21
• The disobedience of Adam and Eve in eating the forbidden fruit was necessary so that they could have children and bring joy to mankind - 2 Nephi 2:23-25

Problem #9: Black skin cursed?

• The Bible teaches that God “made of one blood all nations of men” (Acts 17:26), that in Christ distinctions of ethnicity, gender and social class are erased (Galatians 3:28), and that God condemns favoritism (James 2:1)
• Black skin is a sign of God’s curse - 2 Nephi 5:21
  (BoM 1989 – And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.)

Problem #10: Saved by grace?

• Saved by grace alone - Ephesians 2:1,5; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 11:6; Titus 3:5-6 (Good works are a result, not the basis, of a right relationship with God - Ephesians 2:10)
• ”it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” - 2 Nephi 25:23; see also Moroni 10:32

Problem #11: Obeying the Law?

• The Law of Moses dictates that priests have to come out of the tribe of Levi - Numbers 3:10; Exodus 29:9; Numbers 18:1-7
• The BoM people are described to have kept the Law of Moses (2 Nephi 5:10; 25:24), they were however of the tribe of Joseph (1 Nephi 5:17) or Manasseh (Alma 10:3) and therefore wouldn’t have been legitimate priests according to the Law

Problem #12: The temple(s)

• God commanded Israel to build only one temple to reflect that fact that there is only one true God (Deuteronomy 12:5,13-14; 16:5-6). the one legitimate temple was to be built in Jerusalem (Zion), the location designated by God (The Old Testament is filled with explicit references to God choosing Jerusalem [Zion] as the place where “His name would dwell” in the temple: for example, 1 Kings 8:44,48; 11:13,32,36; 14:21; 2 Kings 21:7; 23:27; 1 Chronicles 28:4; 2 Chronicles 6:6; 7:12,16; Psalm 78:68-69; Isaiah 18:7.
• The BoM peoples operated several temples - Alma 16:13; 23:2; 26:29

Which account do you believe?

 

[Answersplease]

Well, a great many “true Christians” do become convinced. But we don’t convince them; the Holy Spirit convinces them. The mistake you seem to be making is that you are expecting a man to convince you, which no one can. If a religion (any religion) is true, then God will manifest Himself in it. That is how we can know.

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

A faith that is based on archaeological evidence is no faith. You are deceiving yourself.

Hebrews 11
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

True Christian Faith is belief that the promises of Jesus The Christ are and will be made manifest.

All prophets must be proved by their prophecies.

All spirits must be tested against The Gospel Truth.

How many people would have believed Jesus The Christ if He never did any of His miracles?

Past and present EVIDENCE is proof that FAITH in future promises is NOT misplaced faith.

Blind faith leaves you at the mercy of CHARLATANS and DEMONS.

 

[zerinus]

Yesterday I issued a challenge to my Mormon friends which was to pick one or the other, the Bible or the Book of Mormon. A pretty simple request: one or the other. In reviewing subsequent posts by a few LDS contributors to this post, I was not surprised to read a lot of equivocation, rhetorical dancing around the bush if you will. For example, dianaiad (and you do know I respect you) responded by saying that the Bible is made up of many books as is the Book of Mormon, so how does one choose one book of the Bible or one book of the Book of Mormon over another? That was not the question. It is understood and a given that both the Bible and the Book of Mormon are made up of many books. Again, at the risk of being redundant, the question is “You have to pick one or the other. Which do you choose?” (1) the Bible, or (2) the Book of Mormon. I invite our LDS brethren to please tell me, is it #1 or #2?

Okay, I will answer your question on condition that your answer mine first. You remember that Jesus sometimes answered a question with another question? (e.g. Matthew 21:23-27; 22:15-22.) Well, there was a wisdom in that, so I like to try that method to answer your question this time. Will you promise you will answer?

Here is the question: If you were going to be shipwrecked on a desert Island, and you had the choice of either taking with you the Gospel of John or the Gospel of Matthew, and nothing else; which one would you choose?