The Book of Mormon... have you read it?

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

It is no good throwing your dogmas at me. Why should I accept your dogmas when it is out of harmony with the revealed word of the God?

Hmmmm, didn’t someone here say that LDS members will not debate or tell us how we are wrong?

I must ask, how can the Word of God be out of harmony with the Word of God?

Unless you throw in the stuff that is not inspired but some claim to be inspired.

This just shows the confusion I am speaking of. When you make yourself the authority to determine what is inspired and what is not then you add nothing but confusion. The Church is the authority.

You shouldn’t accept the Church’s dogmas but you should realize that you are at a Catholic forum and you should respect us as I am sure you expect the same respect at your websites, that is if you do not ban those who speak as I do here.

 

[zerinus]

For your answer, look in the mirror.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations.”

Maybe that makes sense to you, but it doesn’t to me. Mormon revelation neither “surpasses” nor “corrects the revelation of which Christ is the fulfilment”. Mormon revelation is a continuation of the revelation of which Christ is the fulfilment. Who gave you the right to shut the mouth of God, and declare that having spoken once, He has no right to speak again?

As for the other “religions” or “sects” who claim any manner of revelation, that is not my concern. I am not responsible for them, and they are not for me. What makes you think that I have a responsibility to answer for them?

 

[zerinus]

Hmmmm, didn’t someone here say that LDS members will not debate or tell us how we are wrong?

I must ask, how can the Word of God be out of harmony with the Word of God?

Unless you throw in the stuff that is not inspired but some claim to be inspired.

Maybe you are the one who is mixing uninspired stuff with inspired stuff. I accept the Bible as inspired, but not necessarily your catechism or other dogmatic assertions. This is a religious discussion, a debate. In debate you should be willing to defend your theological position by reason and scripture, not by dogmatic assertions. The assertion that “this is what the catechism says, take it or leave it” is just not good enough.

This just shows the confusion I am speaking of. When you make yourself the authority to determine what is inspired and what is not then you add nothing but confusion. The Church is the authority.

I do not make myself any such “authority”. I am simply expecting a rational explanation of your position. The mere assertion that “the Church is the authority” is not good enough.

You shouldn’t accept the Church’s dogmas but you should realize that you are at a Catholic forum and you should respect us as I am sure you expect the same respect at your websites, that is if you do not ban those who speak as I do here.

As they say, if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen! And yes, there are LDS forums (not official) where you can pit your wit against LDS as you do here. You are welcome to try them out if you like. You won’t get banned. But if you just tell them that “the Church says so, and the Church is the authority,” I don’t think you will get a very good reception!

 

[Garland]

LDS folks, I know you are nice and sincere people, and family is very important to you and that is wonderful. However nephites, jaredites BS ites are all fictious names for people that never lived. There is no evidence of these people in the US or anywhere else. The" burning of the bosom", is not enough proof as a real spicy hotdog will give you the same feeling. Your presidents have contradected one another through the history of your church and like all protestants, there are many different groups of infighting mormons, each with the" real’ mormon truth. Really you are brainwashed to believe any tripe the current pres. says, watch that hot coffee. All the indians slaughtered by the LDS," to save them" didnt profit the church any at all, did it? Do you really believe that there is a planet called kolob? Do you really believe God is only one of many gods? Do you really believe you too can be a god for some other planet some day? All these things have been revealed by some of your past pres. God is flesh and bone, had sex with Mary and had Jesus, Come on, no one could be that stupid. There is one truth in Christianity. Jesus is God. He founded one church. It is the HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH. JESUS WAS NOT REALLY BORN IN MO. I think you could swallow a hog and gag at a knat. If my words are harsh, its because I want to see you safe in the arms of the only salvation there is. Jesus didnt change his mind every time a luther or a j smith or jim jones or any other so called new revelation came down the pike. Get smart ,come home to the catholic church. His will be done. Garland

 

[ricko]

Maybe that makes sense to you, but it doesn’t to me. Mormon revelation neither “surpasses” nor “corrects the revelation of which Christ is the fulfilment”. Mormon revelation is a continuation of the revelation of which Christ is the fulfilment. Who gave you the right to shut the mouth of God, and declare that having spoken once, He has no right to speak again?

As for the other “religions” or “sects” who claim any manner of revelation, that is not my concern. I am not responsible for them, and they are not for me. What makes you think that I have a responsibility to answer for them?

The “revelation” concerning blacks is certainly a “correction” from the earlier teaching of the LDS. However, you still have the nasty comments about blacks in the BOM that yall have been tap dancing around and you can’t remove them as they are doctrine.

I don’t have any rights as far as telling God what to do. But the Catholic Church does have the authority given by Christ to proclaim the Truth. The LDS has no authority whatsoever as it was founded by a man 1800 years after Christ.

As far as the “other religions” you are not concerned about, they are not unlike the LDS church. Established by a man, proclaiming new revelations, zero authority. You are all in the same boat, you just have different names.

 

[zerinus]

The “revelation” concerning blacks is certainly a “correction” from the earlier teaching of the LDS. However, you still have the nasty comments about blacks in the BOM that yall have been tap dancing around and you can’t remove them as they are doctrine.

It is no such thing. God has the right to give one commandment at one time, and a different commandment at another time. And He is not obliged to always give us an explanation why. On one occasion He says, “thou shalt not kill” (Exodus 20:13); and on another occasion He says, “Ye shall utterly destroy” (Judges 21:11). He has the right to give one commandment at one time, and a different one at another time.

I don’t have any rights as far as telling God what to do. But the Catholic Church does have the authority given by Christ to proclaim the Truth. The LDS has no authority whatsoever as it was founded by a man 1800 years after Christ.

That a matter of opinion that can be discussed.

As far as the “other religions” you are not concerned about, they are not unlike the LDS church. Established by a man, proclaiming new revelations, zero authority. You are all in the same boat, you just have different names.

Not at all. They are not Mormons and I am not responsible for them. That would be like an atheist arguing that all religions are the same, Christians, Jews, Muslims alike; they are all fictional and evil, and you shouldn’t believe in any of them!

 

[kikkichan]

zerinus,
Hi!

It is no such thing. God has the right to give one commandment at one time, and a different commandment at another time. And He is not obliged to always give us an explanation why. On one occasion He says, “thou shalt not kill” (Exodus 20:13); and on another occasion He says, “Ye shall utterly destroy” (Judges 21:11). He has the right to give one commandment at one time, and a different one at another time.

I disagree with your example, and Who knows, maybe I’m not reading this right, but Who, exactly is saying “Ye shall utterly destroy”?? --Judges 21:11 I’m getting the sense that it’s not God doing the talking here. Also, I might go along with ‘We can learn or understand more about what God has revealed’ over time, but not that two true revelations can conflict or contradict each other.

Judges 21:5-11

5 And the children of Israel said: ‘Who is there among all the tribes of Israel that came not up in the assembly unto HaShem?’ For they had made a great oath concerning him that came not up unto HaShem to Mizpah, saying: ‘He shall surely be put to death.’
6 And the children of Israel repented them for Benjamin their brother, and said: ‘There is one tribe cut off from Israel this day.
7 How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing we have sworn by HaShem that we will not give them of our daughters to wives?’
8 And they said: ‘What one is there of the tribes of Israel that came not up unto HaShem to Mizpah?’ And, behold, there came none to the camp from Jabesh-gilead to the assembly.
9 For when the people were numbered, behold, there were none of the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead there.
10 And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying: ‘Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the little ones.
11 And this is the thing that ye shall do: ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man.’

-kc
+±+

 

[zerinus]

zerinus,
Hi!

I disagree with your example, and Who knows, maybe I’m not reading this right, but Who, exactly is saying “Ye shall utterly destroy”?? --Judges 21:11 I’m getting the sense that it’s not God doing the talking here. Also, I might go along with ‘We can learn or understand more about what God has revealed’ over time, but not that two true revelations can conflict or contradict each other.

-kc
+±+

Okay, that may not have been a very good example. Here is a better one:

1 Samuel 15:

1 Samuel also said unto Saul, The Lord sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the Lord.

2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and as s..

There are more such examples in the OT if you wanted to look for them. In the above example, Saul was actually rejected from being king because he did not obey the commandment of the Lord exactly as he was instructed, but spared some of the animals, and the king, and some other things.

 

[ricko]

God has the right to give one commandment at one time, and a different commandment at another time.

It is not God, but men, who change, to their own detriment.

 

[Zundrah]

It is not God, but men, who change, to their own detriment.

God has the right to, but he wouldn’t actually do it though… That would completely write off the “on this rock” scripture, wouldn’t it?

 

[Jerusha]

LDS folks, I know you are nice and sincere people, and family is very important to you and that is wonderful. However nephites, jaredites BS ites are all fictious names for people that never lived. There is no evidence of these people in the US or anywhere else. The" burning of the bosom", is not enough proof as a real spicy hotdog will give you the same feeling… Get smart ,come home to the catholic church. His will be done. Garland

Good post!!!

 

[ParkerD]

Good post!!!

Jerusha,
Good day to you. Sometimes the different sides of your personality confuse me. You would of course know that feeling the Holy Spirit and feeling warm inside from a “real spicy hotdog” are completely different experiences. But I think I have gathered that sometimes you like to have a little fun and keep things on the lighter side, so perhaps your comment was “tongue in cheek.” (?) Have a great week.

 

[Zundrah]

LDS folks, I know you are nice and sincere people, and family is very important to you and that is wonderful. However nephites, jaredites BS ites are all fictious names for people that never lived. There is no evidence of these people in the US or anywhere else. The" burning of the bosom", is not enough proof as a real spicy hotdog will give you the same feeling. Your presidents have contradected one another through the history of your church and like all protestants, there are many different groups of infighting mormons, each with the" real’ mormon truth. Really you are brainwashed to believe any tripe the current pres. says, watch that hot coffee. All the indians slaughtered by the LDS," to save them" didnt profit the church any at all, did it? Do you really believe that there is a planet called kolob? Do you really believe God is only one of many gods? Do you really believe you too can be a god for some other planet some day? All these things have been revealed by some of your past pres. God is flesh and bone, had sex with Mary and had Jesus, Come on, no one could be that stupid. There is one truth in Christianity. Jesus is God. He founded one church. It is the HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH. JESUS WAS NOT REALLY BORN IN MO. I think you could swallow a hog and gag at a knat. If my words are harsh, its because I want to see you safe in the arms of the only salvation there is. Jesus didnt change his mind every time a luther or a j smith or jim jones or any other so called new revelation came down the pike. Get smart ,come home to the catholic church. His will be done. Garland

…come on now you mormons, you heard Garland! Stop rebelling against Chrsit church and come home at once! There is no need for all this “great apostacy” claim… Just come to Catholic Chruch and see for yourself that there was no fall in authority on the earth. Souls are saved everyday, our only prophet needed was christ, come and accept him at your home - Catholic mass!

xxx zundrah xxx

 

[Jerusha]

But I think I have gathered that sometimes you like to have a little fun and keep things on the lighter side, so perhaps your comment was “tongue in cheek.”

I felt that he deserved some positive reinforcement. Indigestion is called “heart-burn” for a reason.

 

[zerinus]

It is not God, but men, who change, to their own detriment.

And that means what exactly? God gives one commandment at one time, and a different one at another time, for whatever reason He chooses. He has done that on several different occasions in the Bible, and He has done so in modern times too.

 

[Zundrah]

And that means what exactly? God gives one commandment at one time, and a different one at another time, for whatever reason He chooses. He has done that on several different occasions in the Bible, and He has done so in modern times too.

Zerius, what are you guys talking about right now?

 

[zerinus]

Zerius, what are you guys talking about right now?

What was there about my posts that you did not understand?

 

[Zundrah]

What was there about my posts that you did not understand?

I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE BOOK OF MORMON BUT NOW OVER A FEW DAYS THE CONVERSATION HAS CHANGED! OH NO, THE CAPS LOCK WENT DOWN! I can’t be bothered to delete all that and type again!

What’s going on!?
xxx zundrah xxx

 

[zerinus]

I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE BOOK OF MORMON BUT NOW OVER A FEW DAYS THE CONVERSATION HAS CHANGED! OH NO, THE CAPS LOCK WENT DOWN! I can’t be bothered to delete all that and type again!

What’s going on!?
xxx zundrah xxx

Why do you ask me? I haven’t changed the subject. I am merely responding to other peoples’ posts.

 

[Christian55]

Be careful what you read and hear and who you come in contact with.

Those strong in the Faith can handle “snakes” (probably not literally) and not be poisoned,
those weak in the Faith will fall away.

Answersplease: This is a very wise statement.