The Book of Mormon... have you read it?

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You have the right to choose any book you like. You have the right to believe the way you want to believe. You have the right to be wrong. Just because you believe you’re not wrong doesn’t change the fact that the only truth in the LDS is there because of the Grace of God. Not because Joseph Smith is a prophet or because the books he fabricated are true.
Indeed, I do have that right…(grin…your own opinion of my beliefs is noted…) and I also have the right to say 'no, you are asking me to choose using false criteria and assumptions, and the choice is impossible" without being told that I’m 'weaseling out," too.
 
I have no problem with your answer. The reason I asked the question was that here was a seemingly huge contradiction between one book of the NT and another, but that it wasn’t all that difficult to reconcile those differences so that they are understood. The same can be said for almost all the NT 'internal contradictions."

The reason I used it was that, just as Janet uses the “at Jerusalem/in Bethlehem” 'contradiction" as somehow proof positive that these two books ARE contradictory, so do many non-believers use the two genealogies to ‘prove’ that the NT is false.

In both cases, there is a perfectly logical and reasonable reconciliation that eliminates the problem. In fact, the “at Jerusalem/in Bethlehem” question is answered so well that it actually supports the BoM, rather than detracts from it. Turns out that the BoM reference to 'at Jerusalem" is precisely the proper language use for someone not from that area.

When she can find a ‘contradiction’ that we do NOT have a perfectly reasonable and logical explanation for, THEN she can crow…but if she will not even go look to see if we have one, that’s going to cause a hitch in the debate, and a pretty big credibility drop, seems to me.
Ok thanks for the explanation =)

I agree when dealing with the Bible things that seem contradictory usually have simple answers. I think this whole exercise of “choosing Bible or book of Mormon” is ultimately futile. I understand the reasons why someone would pose a question like this. A Catholic can read Mormon teaching and see that Mormons believe that the Bible, though the word of God, can be translated incorrectly. This leads one to believe that if something said in book of Mormon seems contradictory to something in the Bible and this contradiction is not so easily answered, the safest place to be would be the book of Mormon over something in the Bible, that could be saying the same thing, just translated incorrectly at that time.

Anyway the last few pages of this thread have been unenlightening and pointless in my opinion. What does it matter if Mormons would choose the book of Mormon over the Bible? (big surprise) but this would not discredit or disprove anything the book of Mormon says or what it teaches.

Diana just imagine with me, if you will, that a new church was formed with new sacred scripture to add to the Mormon canon. You, a Mormon, can see glaring inconsistencies with what is in your canon compared to this new scripture, the troglodyte manual. Those Troggies say that their manual is true and isn’t tainted by “man” but straight from God and any seeming contradictions that there may be, the manual must take precedence as it is more divine over man made.

A terrible analogy but you would be close to what Catholics feel. If one believes that they have the full Truth and receive revelation from God, how can another group separate from that one have an even fuller Truth that is completely at odds, not “contradictions” in scripture, but contradictions in practice and belief then the one before?

How do you answer these sort of questions? You ask your own questions and explore. That is how you gain knowledge. Some questions are better then others I suppose. Thanks for playing.
 
This conversation seems to me to have turned more into a personal speculation of the sacred scripture known as the book of mormon and not a subject that either individual has come to know about through prayer and faith as to the validity of the book of mormon. Doesn’t proverbs teach us ’ lean not unto thine own understanding’. There is a wonderful way to know more about the book of mormon and it is to gain your answers about it directly from your heavenly father by asking him in sincere prayer to know that it is true, after reading it and pondering the teachings of the savior that are found in its pages.
Did you get my message? If not then just post here for me and I’ll get back to you. 😃
 
Mormonism is the true, pure, pristine form of Christianity.

If “Mormonism is the true, pure, pristine form of Christianity”, then according to him all other forms of Christianity are tainted or false.
 
“Adieu”
Noah Webster’s 1828 dictionary (English dictionary):

“ADIEU’, Adu’.
Farewell; an expression of kind wishes at the parting of friends.
ADIEU’, n. A farewell, or commendation to the care of God; as an everlasting adieu.”

Noah Webster evidently thought the word usage was common enough to include in the English dictionary he prepared for publication. I don’t suppose the French objected to such a very beautiful word being included in an English dictionary and being used by English-speaking people.

This was a very appropriate translation for the expression of parting farewell by Jacob. It is a beautiful, thoughtful expression of loving wishes in parting.
 
(qtd from another source, and, as usual, posted without comment by answersplease, who still hasn’t quite got the hang of the technology…)

How did the French word “adieu” get into the Book of Mormon? (Jacob 7:27)
Because a: English is a language which borrows words and phrases from other languages. It’s what we do. In the words of one 19th century linguist, English not only borrows words from other languages, it will 'chase another language into an ally, mug it and rifle it for phrases." Modern English BEGAN as a melding between medieval English (which came from Old German ) and Medieval French. “Adieu” has been an English word since the time of William the Conqueror, the way “beef” ('Boef") has. It has fallen out of favor in the last few decades, but in the 18th and 19th centuries it was as often used as 'Good bye."
B: Joseph Smith was the TRANSLATOR of the Book of Mormon. Therefore he was allowed to use whatever modern term best fit the meaning of the idea he was translating. It is rather idiotic to figure that “adieu” was the word he READ…and I have to admit that this one is one of the stranger objections to the Book of Mormon. OF COURSE “adieu” wasn’t in there! However, the concept best expressed BY 'adieu" was.

So…JS used the word that worked the best, was an acceptable English word (as corral, lariat and a whole vocabulary worth of words are today), and one that his readers would place the proper connotation upon.

So…get over it already and if you are going to criticise the Book of Mormon, using stuff like this only makes people think that you have no real ammunition. Let’s face it; this one is terminatlly stupid, not to put too fine a point on the matter.

Diana
 
…stuff like this…

…this one is terminatlly stupid,…

Diana
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Answersplease:
Thanks for showing your wonderful charity.

You must be a fine representative for your Mormon religion.
 
Because a: English is a language which borrows words and phrases from other languages. It’s what we do. In the words of one 19th century linguist, English not only borrows words from other languages, it will 'chase another language into an ally, mug it and rifle it for phrases." Modern English BEGAN as a melding between medieval English (which came from Old German ) and Medieval French. “Adieu” has been an English word since the time of William the Conqueror, the way “beef” ('Boef") has. It has fallen out of favor in the last few decades, but in the 18th and 19th centuries it was as often used as 'Good bye."
B: Joseph Smith was the TRANSLATOR of the Book of Mormon. Therefore he was allowed to use whatever modern term best fit the meaning of the idea he was translating. It is rather idiotic to figure that “adieu” was the word he READ…and I have to admit that this one is one of the stranger objections to the Book of Mormon. OF COURSE “adieu” wasn’t in there! However, the concept best expressed BY 'adieu" was.

So…JS used the word that worked the best, was an acceptable English word (as corral, lariat and a whole vocabulary worth of words are today), and one that his readers would place the proper connotation upon.

So…get over it already and if you are going to criticise the Book of Mormon, using stuff like this only makes people think that you have no real ammunition. Let’s face it; this one is terminatlly stupid, not to put too fine a point on the matter.

Diana
Well, it would be nice to get a look at the source document and the cypher (I’m quite aware I’ve made this point before, I just felt it deserved repeating). I mean, that is traditionally how “translation” is done. This argument might make a little more sense if this really was a translation. However, he used the Urim and Thummin. I heard a lot of stories as a young person in the LDS, none which came close to matching the very specific description in the Old Testament. In the Bible these were used to cast lots. Did Joseph Smith cast lots to come up with his translation?

I promised myself I wouldn’t engage anymore, but really, this slow pitch was too much to resist.

Michael
 
All, Isaiah Bennett has an excellent book, " Inside Mormonism", available on this forum store, that gives the truth of j. smith and mormonism. After reading this and William Whalen`s book among others, I am convinced that P.T.Barnum was correct. Garbage in, garbage out. Blessings. Garland
 
I have one. I got it at a local Thrift shop for like 50¢.
(Along with a Latin Missal and an Old English-Swedish dictionary.
I’ve never read it… (Not more than a couple of Verses)
 
I have one. I got it at a local Thrift shop for like 50¢.
(Along with a Latin Missal and an Old English-Swedish dictionary.
I’ve never read it… (Not more than a couple of Verses)
That’s pretty cool. Some people pick up the Book of Mormon, start reading it, and find they want to read the entire book in a couple of days because it speaks to their heart and soul.

Others soon loose interest…

“Beauty is in the eye of the beholder,” as they say.

Have a wonderful weekend, and may great peace come into your life.🙂
 
I have not read it all the way through but I have read many parts of it. I found it hard to read and full of obvious misinformation. Joseph Smith was not a historian, he looked at what was around him and it appears that he did not know that he was writing about things that did not belong in the pre-Columbian Americas.
To assume that Joseph Smith wrote the book would be mistaken. First, Joseph Smith had no time to write such a book. Second, no one ever saw him with a manuscript in hand. And if you know just how he lived then and in what kind of home, you would see that he could not hide such a project. Third, he was not known to be hanging out in stores that sold paper or feathered pens. This is not a book that one can just sit down and write on paper, with rough drafts etc and not be seen.
 
All, Isaiah Bennett has an excellent book, " Inside Mormonism", available on this forum store, that gives the truth of j. smith and mormonism. After reading this and William Whalen`s book among others, I am convinced that P.T.Barnum was correct. Garbage in, garbage out. Blessings. Garland
And yet, the book of mormon and the bible have led many human beings to lead good and holy lives. So much for garbage.
 
When I left the LDS church, all I saw all around me was lies and hypocrisy. That’s why I became an atheist for nearly ten years. After all the lies I’d been fed, being taught the LDS was the only true religion, I figured they all had to be false.

In Christ,
Michael
What lies and hypocrisy? Now you are being taught that the catholic church is the only true religion. I see no difference. When catholics leave their faith, they also see lies and hypocrisy in their former faith, that is why they left. Lets look at germany where many catholics are contemplating leaving their faith because of what they perceive to be lies and hypocrisy. It is a human reaction when disappointment settles in.
 
All, Isaiah Bennett has an excellent book, " Inside Mormonism", available on this forum store, that gives the truth of j. smith and mormonism. After reading this and William Whalen`s book among others, I am convinced that P.T.Barnum was correct. Garbage in, garbage out. Blessings. Garland
Don’t you have enough brains to figure out what truth is, and is not yourself, that you have to go to bitter anti-s and ex-Mormons to learn about Mormonism?

Isn’t that rather like figuring that M. H. Reynolds and Jack Chick are the best sources for information about Catholicism?

C’mon, get a grip.
 
dianaiad, I was an “investegator”, back in the early 70`s and learned that jack chick, joeseph smith, and all other charllatans have something in common. They think God keeps changing his mind and reinventing the church and adding to or taking away from the bible. It is prohibited by the same scripture you use in the mormon church that condemns adding to the sayings of the kjv, the book of mormon d&c, pearl of great price etc are all added to the scriptures against the will of the scriptures and the will of God. So I guess my brain is bigger than yours since you believe a snake oil peddler can look in a stone in his hat and see a whole new history of Gods people that cannot be proven either by history or archeology or any way other than “burning of the bosom”, a sausage pizza will give the same effect and only proves you need an antacid. Your church keeps changing the "most perfect book ever written’, to fit whatever you are faced with at any given time. Mr Bennet and Mr. Whalen were not bitter at all, they simply presented the mormon church and its ever changing rules and regulations in the light of its past history. You are split into competing sects now that teach things so foriegn to true christianity that it is laughable to say the least. So as to my little brain, thank GOD it was big enough to see what mormonism really is. Oh, and I have read all three “added scriptures” many times, and find them an insult to any educated person [third grade or lower]. Again I say, P.T. Barnum was right, and there is the mormon church to prove it. Blessings. Garland
 
It is prohibited by the same scripture you use in the mormon church that condemns adding to the sayings of the kjv, the book of mormon d&c, pearl of great price etc are all added to the scriptures against the will of the scriptures and the will of God.
Actually, that is incorrect, and is illogical. The verses that state that one should not add to or take away from “this book” could not refer to the Bible as a whole, since those verses were written before “The Bible” as a collective book existed. Instead, they are referring to not adding to or taking away from the Book of Revelation. If your interpretation was correct, then Sacred Tradition would be out as well (which is what fundamentalists claim, and Catholic apologists rightly state that the verse is saying not to add or take away from the Book of Revelation).

"That conclusion might be possible if John’s phrase “this book” meant “the Bible,” but it doesn’t. It’s a common mistake of Evangelicals and Fundamentalists to assume that John was speaking here of the Bible as we know it–all 73 books (seven less in Protestant versions), from Genesis to Revelation, bound between two covers.

John wrote Revelation before the year 100, so he could not have had the Bible in mind when he penned this warning, because the Bible as we know it (and as many Protestants think he meant it) would not exist in its present form for three centuries.

The Catholic Church defined the canons of the Old and New Testaments at the councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397). Before that time Christians weren’t certain exactly which books belonged in the canon because the Church hadn’t yet made a definitive decision on the issue.



There’s another reason Revelation 22:18-19 doesn’t disprove the Catholic doctrine of Tradition. Virtually the same warning is given in Deuteronomy 4:2. If we apply there the same principle that you want to apply in Revelation 22, we have a dilemma, because God would have prohibited the adding of anything to his statutes and decrees as found up to and including the book of Deuteronomy. If that were the case, all subsequent books of the Bible, including the book of Revelation itself, would be proscribed because they were added to the Pentateuch. That means Jeremiah and Ezekiel and Paul and John and all the writers of later books would have the aforementioned dreaded plagues “added unto them” because they added to what was already there."

newadvent.org/library/almanac_thisrock92.htm
 
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