The Book of Mormon

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You can look at all the sources and ancient works you can get your hands on, but until you receive a personal witness from and by the power of the Holy Spirit, those things will always just be things you have a difficult time reconciling.
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I just wanted to cry after reading that. If it is Truth, then you can logically come to that conclusion just as easily as spiritually arriving there. I realized about a year ago that a large part of my life was lived in an intellectual prison. It breaks my heart that there are some that will never be allowed to fully reach their intellectual potential for fear of being seduced by the devil 😦
 
So what church LW? You have the Jews but they dont believe that Christ is the Messiah. The only church then would be the C.C. So what is the “Primative Church” then? If its not the C.C then what reason would there be for a restoration? It doesnt make any kind of sense.
 
LivingWaters7 said:
In the LDS view, the “primitive church” would not be the Catholic Church, but something before that.
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How primitive does the LDS want to get? Note that Ignatius was an auditor of St John …
“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it.** Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church**.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
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LivingWaters7 said:
In the LDS view, the “primitive church” would not be the Catholic Church, but something before that.
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Ok…tell me what church that would be? What “primitive church” does the LDS Church emulate? What primitive Church had the organization and practices of the many versions of the LDS Church (which, by the way, was not even the ORIGINAL name of the LDS Church)
 
Ok, tell ya what. I don’t think I need to come here and defend the Mormon beliefs anymore than you need to defend the Catholic beliefs. You have the advantage that they are more widely accepted, we have the advantage of being unique. I know you’re dying to engage some Mormon noob in order to discredit their belief. But I’m not that noob, so sorry.

I think it’s painfully obvious to anyone that the questions texanKnight posed at the opening of the thread are, as he explained, an attempt to undermine the divinity of the Book of Mormon through archeological evidence. Ho Hum. Been there, done that, it’s in a hundred retired threads. And because the questions are so mediocre, uninteresting and totally irrelevant to the purpose of the BoM, it’s not even worth arguing for a bit of fun. So I ask again, what’s the point?

Let me share with you my vision. It’s a new vision, a vision of what the Catholic Forums, Comparative Religions page could be…A place where we could share our testimonies. A place where I could feel comfortable being a Mormon and you could feel comfortable being a Catholic and we could tell each other how important that is to each other without being attacked. It’s possible…it’s all up to you!
 
rmcmullan said:
Ok, tell ya what. I don’t think I need to come here and defend the Mormon beliefs

Dodge 423

anymore than you need to defend the Catholic beliefs.

Excuse 254

You have the advantage that they are more widely accepted,

Excuse 255

we have the advantage of being unique.

False churches following false prophets are always unique

I know you’re dying to engage some Mormon noob in order to discredit their belief. But I’m not that noob, so sorry.

Dodge 424

I think it’s painfully obvious to anyone that the questions texanKnight posed at the opening of the thread are, as he explained, an attempt to undermine the divinity of the Book of Mormon through archeological evidence.

And it works

Ho Hum. Been there, done that, it’s in a hundred retired threads.

Dodge 425

And because the questions are so mediocre, uninteresting and totally irrelevant to the purpose of the BoM, it’s not even worth arguing for a bit of fun. So I ask again, what’s the point?

Dodge 426

Translation: I know my LDS Church is false, and I have no answers…so let me dodge and run"
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LivingWaters7 said:
In the LDS view, the “primitive church” would not be the Catholic Church, but something before that.
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It is fair to say that in the very early apostalic times, there were different communities through out the region that were not really “unified”. It took some time to get everyone under the same umbrella, the same structure…
 
@ Mullan: What do you mean by “share our testimonies”? That phrase sounds like televangelist jargon to me. The Catholic Church is a public thing, the truth of it is not dependent on my personal experiences. My personal prayers answered, moments of truth and doubt, sin and reconciliation are, by definition, private matters. Some people love to discuss this stuff ( see the catholic living pages), but I don’t see this forum as serving that purpose.
 
.A place where we could share our testimonies. A place where I could feel comfortable being a Mormon and you could feel comfortable being a Catholic and we could tell each other how important that is to each other without being attacked. It’s possible…
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Mr McMullin, I don’t think you want to read my testimony as to why I, a never-Mo, participate in this debate. Furthermore, since Mormons discount the feelings and experiences of non-Mormons, it probably wouldn’t make one whit of difference to you. Other members of this debating community are familiar with my story. Unlike Mormons, I don’t believe in whining; I believe in doing something about it.

And, yes, there was a time in my life when I valued being Catholic because it meant being not Mormon. Although Catholics are noted for their lack of concern and knowledge about Mormonism.
 
rmcmullan said:
Ok, tell ya what. I don’t think I need to come here and defend the Mormon beliefs anymore than you need to defend the Catholic beliefs.
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The forum is called Catholic Answers. Its purpose is to defense the Catholic Church’s beliefs; which is very easy to do. We also clear up misunderstandings about our beliefs.
Mormons seem to not be able to defend their beliefs because they are mostly irrational.
rmcmullan said:
You have the advantage that they are more widely accepted,
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Our advantage is that we have science, history, and reason on our side.
rmcmullan said:
…we have the advantage of being unique.
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”Unique” is not an advantage. I once had a lamb born with three legs. It was very unique, but it was not an advantage. It would have starved to death.
rmcmullan said:
I know you’re dying to engage some Mormon noob in order to discredit their belief. But I’m not that noob, so sorry.
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No, we want to engage you about your beliefs. You claim to leave the Eucharist for bread and water because you believe the Book of Mormon is true. Yet you have not been able to give one rational reason for that decision; a decision that, while unique, can allow you to spiritually starve to death. After seven posts, you have nothing. Very sad.
rmcmullan said:
I think it’s painfully obvious to anyone that the questions texanKnight posed at the opening of the thread are, as he explained, an attempt to undermine the divinity of the Book of Mormon through archeological evidence. Ho Hum. Been there, done that, it’s in a hundred retired threads. And because the questions are so mediocre, uninteresting and totally irrelevant to the purpose of the BoM, it’s not even worth arguing for a bit of fun. So I ask again, what’s the point?
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If what you say is true, the question should easily be answered, but we pointed out in previous post, that cannot be answered because the Book of Mormon is fiction.
rmcmullan said:
Let me share with you my vision. It’s a new vision, a vision of what the Catholic Forums, Comparative Religions page could be…A place where we could share our testimonies. A place where I could feel comfortable being a Mormon and you could feel comfortable being a Catholic and we could tell each other how important that is to each other without being attacked. It’s possible…it’s all up to you!
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No it is up to you. We start the dialogue and you avoid it. The wonderful thing about being Catholic is we share our testimonies every day, by using reason, history and science to defend the Catholic Church. A Mormon testimony is a bunch of claims that have no foundation; like you are trying to convince each other of these beliefs, but are afraid to use reason to find the real truth contained in a Catholic testimony.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Keep it vague. Act like you know an important secret, and maybe someone will think you do.
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Rebecca, Do you think the following is an example if this?
rmcmullan said:
I think it’s painfully obvious to anyone that the questions texanKnight posed at the opening of the thread are, as he explained, an attempt to undermine the divinity of the Book of Mormon through archeological evidence. Ho Hum. Been there, done that, it’s in a hundred retired threads. And because the questions are so mediocre, uninteresting and totally irrelevant to the purpose of the BoM, it’s not even worth arguing for a bit of fun.
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There is another catholic, now Mormon, that used this, “I’ve heard it before” defense. Like we are to assume there is an answer but there never is one.
 
TexanKnight said:
Ok…tell me what church that would be? What “primitive church” does the LDS Church emulate? What primitive Church had the organization and practices of the many versions of the LDS Church (which, by the way, was not even the ORIGINAL name of the LDS Church)
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Hence the reason why…someone…started that thread over at mormondialogue.org, presumably to see if there is a coherent answer…:coffeeread:
 
Stephen168 said:
Rebecca, Do you think the following is an example if this?

There is another catholic, now Mormon, that used this, “I’ve heard it before” defense. Like we are to assume there is an answer but there never is one.
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Yes.
 
LivingWaters7 said:
Hence the reason why…someone…started that thread over at mormondialogue.org, presumably to see if there is a coherent answer…:coffeeread:
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The answer is that the closest match would be the gnostic cults, only because they were marked by a chaos of beliefs and practices. Through Catholic eyes, the Bickmore book, which they mention, makes that clear.
 
Uh, I still never got an answer 😦 Even an “I dont know” would suffice. Oh well then.
 
rmcmullan said:
Ok, tell ya what. I don’t think I need to come here and defend the Mormon beliefs anymore than you need to defend the Catholic beliefs. You have the advantage that they are more widely accepted, we have the advantage of being unique. I know you’re dying to engage some Mormon noob in order to discredit their belief. But I’m not that noob, so sorry.

I think it’s painfully obvious to anyone that the questions texanKnight posed at the opening of the thread are, as he explained, an attempt to undermine the divinity of the Book of Mormon through archeological evidence. Ho Hum. Been there, done that, it’s in a hundred retired threads. And because the questions are so mediocre, uninteresting and totally irrelevant to the purpose of the BoM, it’s not even worth arguing for a bit of fun. So I ask again, what’s the point?

Let me share with you my vision. It’s a new vision, a vision of what the Catholic Forums, Comparative Religions page could be…A place where we could share our testimonies. A place where I could feel comfortable being a Mormon and you could feel comfortable being a Catholic and we could tell each other how important that is to each other without being attacked. It’s possible…it’s all up to you!
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Then go to your mormon forums and try and get some “noobs” to convert with your vast knowledge of mormonism. You came here for a reason, now you want to cry about us having the advantage? Would you go to work unprepared? I think you thought we were just a bunch dumb catholics here. Sorry to disappoint 🤷
 
rmcmullan said:
Ok, tell ya what. I don’t think I need to come here and defend the Mormon beliefs anymore than you need to defend the Catholic beliefs. You have the advantage that they are more widely accepted, we have the advantage of being unique. I know you’re dying to engage some Mormon noob in order to discredit their belief. But I’m not that noob, so sorry.

I think it’s painfully obvious to anyone that the questions texanKnight posed at the opening of the thread are, as he explained, an attempt to undermine the divinity of the Book of Mormon through archeological evidence. Ho Hum. Been there, done that, it’s in a hundred retired threads. And because the questions are so mediocre, uninteresting and totally irrelevant to the purpose of the BoM, it’s not even worth arguing for a bit of fun. So I ask again, what’s the point?

Let me share with you my vision. It’s a new vision, a vision of what the Catholic Forums, Comparative Religions page could be…A place where we could share our testimonies. A place where I could feel comfortable being a Mormon and you could feel comfortable being a Catholic and we could tell each other how important that is to each other without being attacked. It’s possible…it’s all up to you!
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So, you are freely admitting you cannot engage, and discuss, let alone refute anything that has been stated. Not uncommon.

So, in addition to being unwilling/unable to defend the BoM, you choose to attack the very forum that allows you to post here.

I tell you what. You get the people/mods over at MADB, to let honest discussion take place, then we’ll talk about the behavior and moderation over here. OK?

I for one think the mods over here do a great job of letting a free exchange happen here. Sometimes it can get a little testy, but the mods step in only as a last resort, and are quite even handed.

Personally, I think your “vision” is a slap in the face of the moderators.

Trust me, this forum used to be Dodge City on a bad day, and Eric has done a fantastic job cleaning the place up. Catholic as well as non Catholics have had their hands slapped, and even worse.
 
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