The Book of Mormon

[Ezekiel_Stone]

Originally Posted by Stephen168
I think you have stayed away long enough, so that you can change the subject. Trying to defend the Book of Mormon is an impossible task.​

it is how they always act

That Mormons always defend the book of mormon? Why would that surprise you?

 

[kimg901]

That Mormons always defend the book of mormon? Why would that surprise you?

Mormons cant defend their own faith it seems. One says yes, the other says no (about teachings from their books) It based on lies and deception, nothing more.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Do you have any source at all for the proposition that Brigham Young ever claimed revelation for banning blacks from the priesthood? My understanding was that he said it was “common sense” or something like that.

Quotes posted in these forums over and over and over. You can find them. If you believe Young did not believe he was speaking for God, and the Mormons who followed him thought he was a false prophet, I think you enjoy revising history.

I think you’ve confused Brigham Young with some later leaders. And those attempts to theologically justify Young’s prejudice were rejected by the decision process outlined in the D&C, since the quorum of the 12 never approved.

No, he taught those things, as did later Mormon leaders.

Who cares about a process? What he, and later Mormon leaders taught, your church practiced for about a hundred years. So either people were following them as prophets or they followed a false teaching.

I don’t think that any group today has yet put all into the context of Jesus Christ.

…and? Do you think a prophet speaks contrary to Jesus, who is the source of prophecy?

Jesus’ own apostles erred, Peter refused to eat with gentiles, even after the vision from God. God has never required that his prophets or apostles be perfect. Yes, Brigham Young said and did some shameful things.

Paul corrected him, very quickly. Who corrected LDS church leaders? Who do you think has the authority to do so?

[QuoteThat’s simply not true. There were times that he spoke for God. There were times when he made clear that he was speaking his own opinion. There are other times, more than I’m comfortable with, where he didn’t make clear whether he was speaking his own opinion or God’s.
[/quote]

The Mormons following him at the time believed he spoke for God. When is your current president not speaking for God? What did he say in your last general conference that was his opinion and you are ignoring?

No one said that BY should have been weak. He was weak in some areas, strong in others.

Wasn’t your argument that weakness in OT prophets justifies Young’s false teachings?

from anyone else I would call that a misleading straw man. I think that you’re sincere, though, so I’d say that what you just said only makes sense if you assume that whatever a prophet does is “acceptable” before God. Rebecca, that assumption does not make any sense at all in a Christian context. It’s only in Islam that anything that a prophet does is automatically acceptable, and something that you should emulate. Mormons aren’t muslims and Catholics shouldn’t be either, so please, let’s not judge other religions based on assumptions that contradict the basic premises of Christianity.

Again, what is your church teaching you today that you believe is guidance from God but 50 years from now will be called “opinion”? Do you think Mormons following Young thought they were practicing some guy’s opinion?

If someone claims to be a prophet, and teaches falsely, it is a good sign they are a false prophet.

 

[pablope]

.

Jesus’ own apostles erred, Peter refused to eat with gentiles, even after the vision from God. God has never required that his prophets or apostles be perfect. Yes, Brigham Young said and did some shameful things.

y.

But they neveeer, eveeer, taught error. They sinned, had failings, like everyone else…but never, eveer taught error.

And no one who succeeded them changed any of what they handed down to the faithful…because it was truth…and from the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[TexanKnight]

Helping Mormons and former Mormons to come to the truth will be based in profound love. Not in an self-righteous prideful attitude of “we are right, you are wrong, NA NA NANA NA”

Mormons are and have been deceived and they dont realize it. Being spiritual bullies wont bring them to the Truth. It just won’t .

If anything, it will just confirm to them, in a distorted way, that they are right. Why? Because they are being “persecuted”.

Charity, real sincere charity, matters. Scoring “brownie points” is NOT the Lord’s way.

So, Marie, you ignore our Saints?

“Let us return from that Table like lions breathing out fire, terrifying to the devil!”
St. John Chrysostom

“He that sees another in error and endeavors not to correct it, testifies himself to be in error.”
Pope Leo I

 

[lynnettejane]

Helping Mormons and former Mormons to come to the truth will be based in profound love. Not in an self-righteous prideful attitude of “we are right, you are wrong, NA NA NANA NA”

Mormons are and have been deceived and they dont realize it. Being spiritual bullies wont bring them to the Truth. It just won’t .

If anything, it will just confirm to them, in a distorted way, that they are right. Why? Because they are being “persecuted”.

Charity, real sincere charity, matters. Scoring “brownie points” is NOT the Lord’s way.

I know people on here really do feel for mormons, however, sometimes that does not come across

 

[TexanKnight]

Do you have any source at all for the proposition that Brigham Young ever claimed revelation for banning blacks from the priesthood? My understanding was that he said it was “common sense” or something like that.

Go do some research. That is the problem with Mormons. They have no clue about the real past…they have “understandings”. It was doctrine. BY said so. We have posted on this board numerous times.

I think you’ve confused Brigham Young with some later leaders. And those attempts to theologically justify Young’s prejudice were rejected by the decision process outlined in the D&C, since the quorum of the 12 never approved.

And that is part of the problem with the LDS Church. LDS “prophets” give doctrine that later folks try to reject and cover up.

Jesus’ own apostles erred, Peter refused to eat with gentiles, even after the vision from God. God has never required that his prophets or apostles be perfect. Yes, Brigham Young said and did some shameful things.

lol…I love that defense. “Folks 2000 years ago made a few mistakes, so it is ok for prophets in the last 200 years to teach false doctrine”

That’s simply not true. There were times that he spoke for God. There were times when he made clear that he was speaking his own opinion. There are other times, more than I’m comfortable with, where he didn’t make clear whether he was speaking his own opinion or God’s.

not true. In fact, he said he NEVER gave a sermon that was not doctrine. And the false teaching we refer to was given in sermons. Now, if you want to call BY a liar, I am ok with that.

No one said that BY should have been weak. He was weak in some areas, strong in others.

like integrity and morality?

 

[TexanKnight]

That Mormons always defend the book of mormon? Why would that surprise you?

You did not read my post well…which could explain your desire to return the LDS Church.

What surprises me is that when questions, LDS disappear for long periods of time and then return when the difficult points are buried in the thread…

 

[lynnettejane]

Do you have any source at all for the proposition that Brigham Young ever claimed revelation for banning blacks from the priesthood? My understanding was that he said it was “common sense” or something like that.

I think you’ve confused Brigham Young with some later leaders. And those attempts to theologically justify Young’s prejudice were rejected by the decision process outlined in the D&C, since the quorum of the 12 never approved.

I don’t think that any group today has yet put all into the context of Jesus Christ.

Jesus’ own apostles erred, Peter refused to eat with gentiles, even after the vision from God. God has never required that his prophets or apostles be perfect. Yes, Brigham Young said and did some shameful things.

That’s simply not true. There were times that he spoke for God. There were times when he made clear that he was speaking his own opinion. There are other times, more than I’m comfortable with, where he didn’t make clear whether he was speaking his own opinion or God’s.

That is nicely said.

No one said that BY should have been weak. He was weak in some areas, strong in others.

Well said and agreed!

from anyone else I would call that a misleading straw man. I think that you’re sincere, though, so I’d say that what you just said only makes sense if you assume that whatever a prophet does is “acceptable” before God. Rebecca, that assumption does not make any sense at all in a Christian context. It’s only in Islam that anything that a prophet does is automatically acceptable, and something that you should emulate. Mormons aren’t muslims and Catholics shouldn’t be either, so please, let’s not judge other religions based on assumptions that contradict the basic premises of Christianity.

Don’t wish to comment on the above, but just want to welcome Ezekial Stone to the forum, do you want to share your story?W here are in your faith journey? It might be wise to start another thread, as it would be off topic.

 

[Stephen168]

That Mormons always defend the book of mormon? Why would that surprise you?

No, that Mormons can’t defend the Book of Mormon. As you did not defend the Book of Mormon.

In the Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith claims the Book of Mormon is the source of the aboriginal people of America. This is also what my Mormon friends believed in 1970’s; all American Indians were Semitic people who came from the middle-east about 2,000 years before Christ. I understand until very recently, Native members and investigators were still being told they are the people of the Book of Mormon.
At the time they told me the basic story of the Book of Mormon, scientists knew the American Indians came from Asia over 10,000 years before Christ. They knew by comparing their languages, physiology, and archeological evidence.
Since the 1970’s, DNA confirms what Scientist have know about the true source of the American Indians. Additional evidence has also pushed back the date the first Asian arrival by 2 to 4 times; making the Book of Mormon wrong by 20,000 years, and Joseph Smith wrong about the story being true.

 

[Marie5890]

So, Marie, you ignore our Saints?

“Let us return from that Table like lions breathing out fire, terrifying to the devil!”
St. John Chrysostom

“He that sees another in error and endeavors not to correct it, testifies himself to be in error.”
Pope Leo I

I certainly try and keep the Lord’s parable ever in mind.

More so than the words of the Saints, yes, that is a fair statement.

 

[Marie5890]

I know people on here really do feel for mormons, however, sometimes that does not come across

I know people care, Lynnettejane.

It’s another reason why we should always be examining our consciences, our intents, how we treat others, both in word and action.

Satan rejoices if he can get us into the snare of spiritual pride and have the attitude of the pharisee in the Lord’s parable.

 

[TexanKnight]

I certainly try and keep the Lord’s parable ever in mind.

More so than the words of the Saints, yes, that is a fair statement.

Do you mean the time where Jesus killed the fig tree?

or the time he called the Jewish leader a name?

Or when he drove the folks from the temple?

or when he called folks a “wicked generation”?

To which of those times are you referring?

Or maybe when he said not to judge?

Just curious

 

[TexanKnight]

No, that Mormons can’t defend the Book of Mormon. As you did not defend the Book of Mormon.

But he DID do the typical deflect and redirect…

 

[Marie5890]

Do you mean the time where Jesus killed the fig tree?

or the time he called the Jewish leader a name?

Or when he drove the folks from the temple?

or when he called folks a “wicked generation”?

To which of those times are you referring?

Or maybe when he said not to judge?

Just curious

All of them, TexasKnight, all of them. It’s why we, as Catholics, are called to examine our consciences, so God can reveal to us where we are lacking, where we can do better in living the Gospel.

Only He can reveal to us, personally, individually, what we need, where we need to repent. Where we are falling short. Where we need to be healed.

We need to be continuously examining our consciences, as our needs are not static, but ever changing.

I hope that satifies your curiosity.

 

[TexanKnight]

All of them, TexasKnight, all of them. It’s why we, as Catholics, are called to examine our consciences, so God can reveal to us where we are lacking, where we can do better in living the Gospel.

Only He can reveal to us, personally, individually, what we need, where we need to repent. Where we are falling short. Where we need to be healed.

We need to be continuously examining our consciences, as our needs are not static, but ever changing.

I hope that satifies your curiosity.

yep…it means we are all doing the right thing here and should be judged less by others.

Hope you listen!

Be Blessed

 

[Marie5890]

yep…it means we are all doing the right thing here and should be judged less by others.

Hope you listen!

Be Blessed

I do strive to listen to my conscience, TK, and live and share the Gospel in love.

You be blessed, too.

 

[TexanKnight]

I do strive to listen to my conscience, TK, and live and share the Gospel in love.

You be blessed, too.

as do I. I am glad we are in agreement.