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- Status
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Allweather
Guest
O! If only we could Hie to Kolob.
What wonders would we there behold?
What wonders would we there behold?
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zerinus
Guest
I would have been more flattered if you had called me The Terminator:
http://oracleofbacon.org/arnie.jpg
That is to say, the terminator of all corrupt Mormon apostates and wicked anti-Mormons! (Perhaps ex-terminator would have been even more flattering!
)zerinus
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majick275
Guest
in your danite dreams 
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PaulDupre
Guest
I guess you would like to personally “blood atone” me per Brigham Young’s teachings. Your posts have become quite dark as of late, full of threats of (and desire for) violence. Is that the fruit of Mormonism?I would have been more flattered if you had called me The Terminator:
http://oracleofbacon.org/arnie.jpg
That is to say, the terminator of all corrupt Mormon apostates and wicked anti-Mormons! (Perhaps ex-terminator would have been even more flattering!
zerinus
They say that every man has two dogs in his heart - a kind and gentle pooch and a blood-thirsty wolf. The one that rules your heart will be the one you feed. Don’t feed the wolf, Z.
Paul
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zerinus
Guest
Actually, there isn’t that much difference between characterizing me as Morg or as Terminator. According to the Wikipedia:
Morg is a fictional supervillain published by Marvel Comics universe, appearing as a herald of Galactus. Created by Ron Lim and Ron Marz, he first appeared in Silver Surfer vol. 3, #70 (August 1992).
Origin
Morg served as a herald of Galactus after Galactus’ previous herald, Nova, quit. After losing several heralds to attacks of conscience, Galactus searched for the most brutal, remorseless person he could find, and he found Morg; an executioner who had betrayed his own species by becoming the executioner for the species that had defeated them.
Morg gladly accepted the task of being Galactus’ herald. Much like former herald Terrax, Morg also wielded a large axe.
I hardly see a cause for your complaint.
zerinus
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PaulDupre
Guest
Actually, Z, the Morg I was referring to is a word-play on Mormon and Borg (a la Star Trek). Morg is a designation used by many ex-Mormons that implies that Mormons, like the Borg, are part of a collective “hive-mind” controlled by a few old men in SLC and are unable to think for themselves. When and if a Morg drone disconnects from the hive-mind and begins to think for himself, he is very soon no longer Morg.
Paul
Paul
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flameburns623
Guest
Catholics also believe that Divine blessings (not necessarily tangible or material) accompany obedience to spiritual principles. This does not mean that Catholics obey primarily out of a desire to obtain blessings, any more than do Protestants or Mormons. The intent is (or ought to be) to obey out of pure love for God. No Catholic, no orthodox Protestant, and no Mormon of whom I am aware, thinks of God as a vending machine Who is obligated to render value in exchange for value received. (By contrast, the health-and-wealth/prosperity teachers you cited do seem to suggest that God is put into the debt of His creations any time one of His people act in obedience to a spiritual principle; however such ministries are NOT orthodox Protestant bodies but instead are aberrant at best and heretical at worst).
I’m not suggesting that Mormonism is an orthodox Christian faith–it is NOT–but I think you are again laying charges to the account of the LDS Church which are unfair and overstated.
I would strongly encourage Catholics or other Christians interested in truly dialoguing with Mormons and/or witnessing to them, to spend some time on FAIR-LDS or other Mormon apologetics sites, gaining some insight into how Mormons at their best respond to criticisms. You are likely to find, as I have, that some of the most-popular critiques of the LDS Church are actually not very fair, accurate, or effective; while other arguments, perhaps less-popular because they cannot be so easily condensed into sound bytes, anagrams, or trite formulae, are actually more fatal to the LDS case.
I do think this thread has gotten off course quite a bit.
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JonathanKinsman
Guest
That is not true. If you have read most of my posts, you will know that I am not overly critical of the Catholic Church.
zerinus
/QUOTE
:banghead: Except for the time Zerinus called us (Catholics) all evil Apostates, I’d say, no, in his multiverse of many gods and godlets, he is not “overtly critical of the Catholic Church.”
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flameburns623
Guest
Kellie:
I think you misunderstand. Mormons don’t believe that Priesthood authority was lost with the death of Joseph Smith. They also don’t believe that Priesthood authority was lost in primitive times simply with the death of the Apostles. They believe that at the end of the apostolic age, a great Apostasy, accompanied by massive persecution, led to the loss of all holders of priesthood authority. After Joseph Smith’s death, the priesthood authority remained with the twelve latter-day apostles, and continued on under the leadership and prophet-ship of Brigham Young and his successors. There are some valid questions of procedure and succession which could be raised: at the time of Smith’s death and shortly following, there were numerous contenders for the mantle of leadership of the LDS Church. Many of these had very plausible cases, especially those who favored the succession of Smith’s infant son–who later would head the “Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints” or “RLDS”, nowadays known as the Community of Christ. The strongest argument made by the modern LDS Church for Brigham Young over Sidney Rigdon, Joseph Smith III, James Strang, William Law, et. al. is that the LDS Church prospered while other groups vanished, splintered, or languished.
Brigham Young or any of his successors could have completed Smith’s translation of the Bible but they say the Lord has not revealed that the time has come to do this. In fact, because the JST is an uncompleted work, it is not fully authoritative or binding on LDS members. (It is much more difficult to determine when an LDS Prophet’s teachings are binding upon all LDS members everywhere, henceforth for all time, than it is to identify an ex cathedra declaration of a Roman Catholic Pope). The integration of references from the JST into the LDS Church’s edition of the standard King James Bible is as close as the Church has come to making the JST authoritative and binding on all LDS members.
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flameburns623
Guest
Great links. Learned something I didn’t know. Thanks Zerinus!
J
JonathanKinsman
Guest
; and they will tell you any lies about Mormonism to turn you away from the truth. Put your trust in the Lord, and He will guide you by His Spirit into all truth, as He has said: **“**Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth . . .” (John 16:13).
Don’t be dissuaded by a bunch of corrupt apostates who have damned themselves by apostatizing from God’s only true Church, and become miserable forever, and now want everybody else to become miserable like unto themselves.
zerinus
Here is the Zerinus quote from 31 Jan 07, # 713 (any former mormons out there? thread).
I highlighted the parts where he is not “overly critical of the Catholic Church.”
Pax Christi
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Montalban
Guest
You’re not Apostates, just heretics
But seriously, the amount of anger pent up in these Mormons is amazing.
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kellie
Guest
Thanks to all who have replied to this thread, it has been so interesting.
The Mormons believe of the Great Apostasy that happened when the last Apostle died.
What Pope was in power then of the Church?
St Peter was the first Pope, then came Linus.
Was it Pope Linus that led the Church astray according to the Mormons?
The Mormons believe of the Great Apostasy that happened when the last Apostle died.
What Pope was in power then of the Church?
St Peter was the first Pope, then came Linus.
Was it Pope Linus that led the Church astray according to the Mormons?
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flameburns623
Guest
First of all I don’t think Mormons agree with you that Peter was a Pope. Secondly, as I explained earlier: the Great Apostasy began during the lifetime of the Apostles, and it continued to spread long after the deaths of the Apostles. A major factor in the spread of the Great Apostasy was the Neronian and other persecutions, which killed off the holders of Priesthood authority faster than it could be conferred. But not all who lacked the proper Priesthood authority were necessarily apostates: some were simply Christians who had not yet received Priesthood authority before those who could confer it were killed.
Linus may have had valid Priesthood authority, OR he may have been among those who were in apostasy, OR he may have been sincerely obedient to what he know of the Gospel but nonetheless deprived of Priesthood authority; but in whatever case he was in the generation of those who saw priesthood authority taken away from the church. Those who had it were killed off before they could pass it on; those who had apostatised lost their authority; and some who were not explicitly apostate were left to struggle to maintain Christian faith without Priesthood authority or the direct inward guidance of the Holy Ghost. Remember that Mormons not only baptise by the authority of their Priesthood, they also confer the gift of the Holy Ghost through a confirmation ceremony which likewise requires the Priesthood.
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Montalban
Guest
I’m not sure about this, because I thought that some were saying that St. John was still alive
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PaulDupre
Guest
Likewise we Catholics. The difference is that we believe that Jesus is a success, not a failure; that Jesus’ promises to be with His Church forever and to send the Holy Spirit to lead His Church into all truth did not fail, but are constantly and faithfully being fulfilled.
Paul
P.S.: Because both of the Mormon Jesus’ churches (in the old world and the new world) fell into total apostacy very quickly, the Mormon Jesus is a two-time loser. But then again, the Mormon god is just some guy with limited powers and abilities. So it is hardly surprising that the Mormon god is such a collosal failure. Who would want to worship such an incompetent fool?
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Montalban
Guest
A very good point because in America Jesus’ message died for quite some time.
Speaking of time, what’s the time-line with Mormon events…
When did the Jews get to America?
When did Jesus go to America? Did he have to die there too?
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kellie
Guest
ok so can someone please explain what “priesthood authority” is?
I understand it to mean someone who has the authority to go around and baptize people in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
I may be wrong, I am learning every day here on these forums, and through Bible reading.
If so, didn’t ALL Apostles have priesthood authority through the Holy Spirit sent down to them at Pentecost?
How then could the Church have started apostasising while they were still alive?
Thank you all for your answers
I understand it to mean someone who has the authority to go around and baptize people in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
I may be wrong, I am learning every day here on these forums, and through Bible reading.
If so, didn’t ALL Apostles have priesthood authority through the Holy Spirit sent down to them at Pentecost?
How then could the Church have started apostasising while they were still alive?
Thank you all for your answers
K
Kristine1957
Guest
The church states that EVERY family have a one-year supply of food and water for every family member. The “reason” given was so that "when the end comes…which is the second coming of Christ.- Status