The Book of Revelation

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There are two ways of looking at the imminent statements. The first, and the most relevant to individuals, is the coming of the Holy Spirit. When ‘‘we (Father and Son) will make our abode’’ with them. Now assume you have belief in Christ (and baptized in water) and are reading the scriptures but have not tasted ‘‘the heavenly fruit’’ and ‘‘the powers of the age to come’’… Well you should prepare for the Holy Spirit. Why? Because John 3:8 ''The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. ‘’ So you may be a believer but not yet born of the Spirit of Christ (in a way you are actively aware of having happened).
The second way of viewing this is in an end times type of way where He is saying to those believers at that time (I’m assuming who can see the signs of His coming) that He is coming soon. Almost a reassurance. So like I said before many different ways of viewing even a simple verse like this can come about and as such one should make sure the Spirit is leading them to it. Because as nice as commentaries on it are, most of them will not give you the understanding that comes from the Spirit. … the phrase ‘‘doctrines of men’’ comes to mind.
 
Actually, understanding the rest of the Bible helps a lot with understanding the Book of Revelation.

I’ve been translating St. Beatus of Liebana’s huge Commentary on the Apocalypse for several years now. (The old name of Revelation is The Apocalypse of St. John, FYI. Apocalypse and Revelation both mean “unveiling,” so pretty much the same thing.)

The more you read Revelation,the more you are forced to study the Book of Daniel and the Book of Ezekiel. They are key. Zechariah is also very very important. Isaiah is a nice supplement. You also find important references to St. John’s Gospel and his Epistles, and to all sorts of apocalyptic stuff throughout the Bible.

But if you want to deal with “imminent prophecies” in Revelation, you have to deal with all the seemingly imminent prophecies in the whole Bible. You have to understand why God made prophecies of warning and then spared those who listened, what’s up with false prophecies and lying prophecies, and what’s up with the boatload of imminent prophecies that sounded a long way off, and of distant prophecies that sounded like they’d happen tomorrow.

These are good and interesting things to learn about! But they are not simple to explain or learn.

The other thing is that bad stuff is always happening, both to Israel and to the Church. There is not one single application that’s “according to the Scriptures,” but many. At some point we will have one final tribulation, but various points in the prophecies have been fulfilled many times. Like most Scripture, there is a lot of personal moral application as well as the grand historical one; and frankly, I’m more worried about my own soul than when the end comes.

Revelation was one of the first Bible books I ever read, and there’s nothing wrong with having an interest in it. I love it! But it’s complicated. You have to read, and chew it over and digest it, and then you have to think about it. I find that the Mass readings often illuminate points, too.

OTOH, the basic message is pretty clear - Repent, stay faithful, always expect trouble, and don’t stop loving Jesus Christ and your neighbor until the Lord comes.

(Btw, my first volume of Beatus is up on Amazon here. The introductory material in Books 1 and 2 is patristic and medieval, but still quite helpful, and it covers the entire Book of Revelation. The rest of this volume covers the Seven Churches in depth. If you buy it, feel free to leave me a review, since nobody else ever does!)
 
Achilles6129 said:
Hi,

I’m afraid that this doesn’t help in understanding what the imminent statements in Revelation mean. Also, Revelation is written to all the servants of God (everywhere, at all times), so the historical context is simply irrelevant.
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It is not irrelevant but is the key to proper understanding.

Scriptural interpretation starts with the literal sense - what the words on the pages are talking about in the historical, cultural and personal context of the author and his audience. The spiritual senses of scripture flow from the literal.

This is not something I made up. There have been papal encyclicals about the senses of Scripture and it is explained in the Catechism (115 through 120). To say that the historical context is irrelevant is a rejection of sound principals of Catholic Biblical interpretation.

Google Senses of Scripture and see for yourself.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
It is not irrelevant but is the key to proper understanding.

Scriptural interpretation starts with the literal sense - what the words on the pages are talking about in the historical, cultural and personal context of the author and his audience. The spiritual senses of scripture flow from the literal.

This is not something I made up. There have been papal encyclicals about the senses of Scripture and it is explained in the Catechism (115 through 120). To say that the historical context is irrelevant is a rejection of sound principals of Catholic Biblical interpretation.

-Tim-
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If it’s written to all the servants of God, then the historical context is not relevant. We’re all not living back in the 1st century AD. Obviously, then, the context of the book of Revelation is going to be something that everyone at all times can understand.
 
TimothyH said:
The same can be said of any book of the Bible. The solution is not to stay away from it but to find reliable sources of information and study it properly.

The studies by Jeff Cavins/Great Adventure are excellent. The Bible is meant to be read and studied and meditated upon and prayed back to God.

-Tim-
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Oh I agree with you, but a lot of Protestants have used the book of revolution to cause a lot of division, even use it to call the Catholic Church the whore of Babylon.
 
Achilles6129 said:
If it’s written to all the servants of God, then the historical context is not relevant. We’re all not living back in the 1st century AD. Obviously, then, the context of the book of Revelation is going to be something that everyone at all times can understand.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry I missed that you are non-denominational.

I urge you to ask your pastor about the Senses of Scripture. If he has any formal pastoral or Scripture training at all then he will surely know what you are asking and be able to advise you. I can tell you that literal/spiritual senses of scripture have been widely accepted by scholars throughout all Christianity.

My own experience in reading the Bible cover to cover many times and hosting Bible study in my home over many years is that scripture comes alive when we learn something about the culture, politics, daily life and even geography, diet and climate of the authors and their audience. This is my experience.

One book that has helped me understand the Bible better is Manners and Custom’s in the Bible by Victor H. Matthews.

books.google.com/books/content?id=KwwqGQAACAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&imgtk=AFLRE72MBrCt7u17RM4L33Inozn9hVcaoAlUOrMUaDjsB7qI4qxjdGCKgp9pgRnmiJYc9nEkSvKy8eidRvQAOFo6iADB6lZiGanzxZUKpw1Mp-YZrO50FUcxrciW2XZFv5cvjgQ74L3K

Please ask your pastor.

-Tim-
 
Achilles6129 said:
Hi,

I’m afraid that this doesn’t help in understanding what the imminent statements in Revelation mean. Also, Revelation is written to all the servants of God (everywhere, at all times), so the historical context is simply irrelevant.
Click to expand...
If this were true, there wouldn’t be so many denominations, each with their own interpretation of what Scripture means.

Read Acts Chapter 8:
So he got up and set out. Now there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of the Candace,* that is, the queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of her entire treasury, who had come to Jerusalem to worship,h
28
and was returning home. Seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah.
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The Spirit said to Philip, “Go and join up with that chariot.”
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  • Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”
    31
    He replied, “How can I, unless someone instructs me?” So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him.i
 
TimothyH said:
I’m sorry I missed that you are non-denominational.

I urge you to ask your pastor about the Senses of Scripture. If he has any formal pastoral or Scripture training at all then he will surely know what you are asking and be able to advise you. I can tell you that literal/spiritual senses of scripture have been widely accepted by scholars throughout all Christianity.

My own experience in reading the Bible cover to cover many times and hosting Bible study in my home over many years is that scripture comes alive when we learn something about the culture, politics, daily life and even geography, diet and climate of the authors and their audience. This is my experience.

One book that has helped me understand the Bible better is Manners and Custom’s in the Bible by Victor H. Matthews.

books.google.com/books/content?id=KwwqGQAACAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&imgtk=AFLRE72MBrCt7u17RM4L33Inozn9hVcaoAlUOrMUaDjsB7qI4qxjdGCKgp9pgRnmiJYc9nEkSvKy8eidRvQAOFo6iADB6lZiGanzxZUKpw1Mp-YZrO50FUcxrciW2XZFv5cvjgQ74L3K

Please ask your pastor.

-Tim-
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This is very well put.

I just got back from my first trip to The Holy Land. Being in the actual places where Jesus was born, walked, and healed has truly deepened my appreciation of Sacred Scripture.

We never stop learning.
 
TimothyH said:
The same can be said of any book of the Bible. The solution is not to stay away from it but to find reliable sources of information and study it properly.
Click to expand...
👍
TimothyH said:
The studies by Jeff Cavins/Great Adventure are excellent. The Bible is meant to be read and studied and meditated upon and prayed back to God.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
They are. I have taken Jeff Cavins course on Revelation. It is the mass. Scott Hahn has also done an excellent study of it as the mass.
 
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