The Book Which is Most being read:Qur'an

[JimmyDFG]

In addition to my earlier post you can find more material on this subject of the reference to Mary as “sister of Aaron” at

islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/mary.html

In the Bible the use of sisterhood:

SISTER
sis’-ter ('achoth):
Used repeatedly in the Old Testament of a female
(1) having the same parents as another; or
(2) having one parent in common, with another, half-sister (Genesis 20:12; Leviticus 18:9), and also
(3) of a female belonging to the same family or clan as another, so a kinswoman (Genesis 24:60; Job 42:11);
(4) also of a woman of the same country (Numbers 25:18).

biblestudytools.com/dictionary/sister/

The use of “sister” that we are referring to is in the quran so why bring in the Old Testaments terminology use of it?

Again …Is “sister” in the quran is ever used metaphorically when speaking of relationships between people?

Also in the quran the use of “O”/oh as in “O prophet”, “O you who have”, “O muhammad”, “O sister”. This use in direct address to attract the attention of the person spoken to. In some cases the “O” could be a you.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Islamic awareness has no business going to Luke and jumping to the verse Luke 1:36. This is not exegesis but picking and choosing. It is pointless. As the context is Mary and her virginity and yet to her choice if she allows Gods calling to give birth to Jesus Son of the Most High.

MJ

My thoughts as well

 

[arthra]

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexImage.cfm?tv=1471067351803&aJimmy wrote:

*“The use of “sister” that we are referring to is in the quran so why bring in the Old Testaments terminology use of it?”

The reason is the similarities of usage in Semitic tongues…Hebrew and Arabic

Consider:

blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H269&t=RSV

**https://www.blueletterbible.org/lan.../lexicon/lexImage.cfm?tv=1471067351803&a*Read Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon explanation in the article.

Hope that helps!
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexImage.cfm?tv=1471067351803&a

 

[zamyrabyrd]

In addition to my earlier post you can find more material on this subject of the reference to Mary as “sister of Aaron” at
islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/mary.html

In the Bible the use of sisterhood:
SISTER
sis’-ter ('achoth):
Used repeatedly in the Old Testament of a female
(1) having the same parents as another; or
(2) having one parent in common, with another, half-sister
(3) of a female belonging to the same family or clan as another, so a kinswoman
(4) also of a woman of the same country

Hebrew is not that unclear so as not to be able to distinguish a daughter (bath) from sister (achot). Daughters of Aaron would not be confused with sisters of Aaron.

 

[JimmyDFG]

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexImage.cfm?tv=1471067351803&aJimmy wrote:

*“The use of “sister” that we are referring to is in the quran so why bring in the Old Testaments terminology use of it?”

The reason is the similarities of usage in Semitic tongues…Hebrew and Arabic

Consider:

blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H269&t=RSV*

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexImage.cfm?tv=1471067351803&ahttps://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexImage.cfm?tv=1471067351803&aRead Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon explanation in the article.

Hope that helps!
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexImage.cfm?tv=1471067351803&a

This did help, thank you!!
As I went through each one of the verses it gives no indication of “sister” being used as a form of descendancy.
Also in each of the verses when “sister of” is used it actually is the sister of , as in brother and sister…and not “sister of” a clan or coming from. Just like in. Exo 15:20 “Then Miriam, the prophetess, the sister of Aaron…” compared to quran 19:28 " O sister of Aaron…"

Also in 19:28 of the quran wouldn’t they all be brothers and sisters of Aaron rather than mentioning “father” and “mother”?

Again I’ll like to state in Luke it indicates being “from” and the quran being “sister of”

And again I’ll ask…Is “sister” in the quran ever used metaphorically when speaking of relationships between people?

 

[MartinJordan]

This did help, thank you!!
As I went through each one of the verses it gives no indication of “sister” being used as a form of descendancy.
Also in each of the verses when “sister of” is used it actually is the sister of , as in brother and sister…and not “sister of” a clan or coming from. Just like in. Exo 15:20 “Then Miriam, the prophetess, the sister of Aaron…” compared to quran 19:28 " O sister of Aaron…"

Also in 19:28 of the quran wouldn’t they all be brothers and sisters of Aaron rather than mentioning “father” and “mother”?

Again I’ll like to state in Luke it indicates being “from” and the quran being “sister of”

And again I’ll ask…Is “sister” in the quran ever used metaphorically when speaking of relationships between people?

Good questions .

MJ

 

[GUNNER7070]

Good questions .

MJ

Hello Martin.
Good question indeed.
By the way I have read about Nestorianism, Docetism, Adoptionism and Apollinarism.
Arianism will be next.
There were so many opinions.

This did help, thank you!!
As I went through each one of the verses it gives no indication of “sister” being used as a form of descendancy.
Also in each of the verses when “sister of” is used it actually is the sister of , as in brother and sister…and not “sister of” a clan or coming from. Just like in. Exo 15:20 “Then Miriam, the prophetess, the sister of Aaron…” compared to quran 19:28 " O sister of Aaron…"

Also in 19:28 of the quran wouldn’t they all be brothers and sisters of Aaron rather than mentioning “father” and “mother”?

Again I’ll like to state in Luke it indicates being “from” and the quran being “sister of”

And again I’ll ask…Is “sister” in the quran ever used metaphorically when speaking of relationships between people?

Hello Jimmy.
Thank you for giving me an honest answer to my question.

Use the following hadit as an example:
"The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) entered upon me and some words had reached me from Hafsah and 'Aishah. So I mentioned it to him. So he said: 'Why did you not say: “And how are you better than me, while my husband is Muhammad and my father is Harun (Aaron), and my uncle is Musa (Moses)?” That which had reached her, was that they had said: “We are more honored to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) than her,” and that they said: “We are the wives of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his cousins.”

Now getting back to my question.
I asked you because you are the only one I saw who is writing certain names and nouns without capitalizing the first letter.

That is hurtful and disrespectful to others.
We (I mean everyone) do not need to agree on everything but one, which is respecting one another.

 

[MartinJordan]

Hello Martin.
Good question indeed.
By the way I have read about Nestorianism, Docetism, Adoptionism and Apollinarism.
Arianism will be next.
There were so many opinions.

Awesome Gunner!

Can you elaborate what you mean by so many opinions? And how it affects you? I wish to know also whether Islam has studied all these opinions (as per the way you perceive), and trace it to Jesus’ ministry during the time of the Romans to the Councils that dealt with Nestorianism, Docetism, etc ?

Looking forward to your analysis.

MJ

 

[JimmyDFG]

Hello Martin.
Good question indeed.
By the way I have read about Nestorianism, Docetism, Adoptionism and Apollinarism.
Arianism will be next.
There were so many opinions.

Hello Jimmy.
Thank you for giving me an honest answer to my question.

Use the following hadit as an example:
"The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) entered upon me and some words had reached me from Hafsah and 'Aishah. So I mentioned it to him. So he said: 'Why did you not say: “And how are you better than me, while my husband is Muhammad and my father is Harun (Aaron), and my uncle is Musa (Moses)?” That which had reached her, was that they had said: “We are more honored to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) than her,” and that they said: “We are the wives of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his cousins.”

Now getting back to my question.
I asked you because you are the only one I saw who is writing certain names and nouns without capitalizing the first letter.

That is hurtful and disrespectful to others.
We (I mean everyone) do not need to agree on everything but one, which is respecting one another.

I apologize that you feel that way. If it means that much to you…I’ll change it

Safiyya was born in Medina to Huyayy ibn Akhtab, the chief of the Jewish tribe Banu Nadir. Her mother, Barra bint Samawal, was from the Banu Qurayza tribe.

If you are referring to Safiyyas descendancy to a tride of Aaron. It would be important to point out that Safiyyas father Huyayy " opposed Muhammad from the day he arrived in Medina" and “Huyayy was to become the most inveterate enemy of Muhammad, to the point where ibn Hisham, Muhammad’s biographer, calls him the enemy of Allah” This would be the very same descent of Aaron, which who opposed Muhammad

Also Muhammad ended alliance with the Nadir tribe and that act of “treachery” from the Jews meant that they were at war with one another and as the historian ibn Ishaq put it “…there was not a Jew who did not fear for his life”
Would Aaron like this?

As for the Banu Qurayza tribe they were a Jewish tribe which lived in northern Arabia, at the oasis of Yathrib (now known as Medina), until the 7th century, when their conflict with Muhammad led to their demise.

Its also important stating that Safiyya was married Kenana ibn al-Rabi ibn Abu al-Huqayq, who was tortured and killed for refusing to turn over his tribe’s treasure after the Battle of Khaybar in 628. Safiyya was taken prisoner along with other women, but her prisoner-of-war status ended with her marriage to the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Thus Barra binte Samaw’al became what is known today as a “mother-in-law” to Muhammad.

 

[hasantas]

We know that the Virgin Mary had no brothers or sisters. Mary’s parents Saint Anne and Joachim were childless until Angels appeared to both Joachim and Anne to promise them a child ( Virgin Mary )

In the quran 19:16-30 is “The story of Mary” and of Jesus but in 19:28 Aaron is the sister of Mary. So heres what we know and are the facts…

Moses father is named Amram/“Imran”
Moses has a brother named Aaron
Moses has a sister named Miriam/ “Mary”?

The Blessed Virgin Mary
Mary father is named Joachim
Mary has no brothers or sisters

the quran says Mary’s brother is Aaron( 19:28) and also the father of Mary is named Imran ( 16:22 )

Was muhammad confused?

There is no any valid knowledge about family of Mary from Christianic sources(Saint Anne and Joachim are not clear!). So why Mary would not have a brother?

Qur’an is direct word of God and Qur’an is not similar to Bible which was written by people later. When you say Muhammad confused so that is very pity of you because Qur’an is not speech of Muhammad!

Though valid Gospels are not original yet you say we should regard an apocrypha Bible!

 

[hasantas]

So it is established

1. no official Bible for you but a vague reply.

2.It doesn’t answer why you skip verses that Jesus talks.

1. There’s no way to know which Bible your Imam uses. It is clear you are clueless.

Peace be with you.

MJ

Are you a bit obsessed?

Do you not like me to quote from Bible? And when I want to express an issue so I should recite related verses. Why you think that is wrong? Or it bother you when I refute you from Bible?

 

[hasantas]

I googled the most read books & here are the top 10 results.

By the way - the Quran is not in there.

Quote: “The most read book in the world is the Bible.”

Source: businessinsider.com/the-top-10-most-read-books-in-the-world-infographic-2012-12

That is not something interest in being best seller list! You do not understand. A Muslim read whole Qur’an more than 100 times. And verses of Qur’an are read in Salat by a Muslim at least 40 times a day. There is no any time in which Qur’an is not read on the world. I explained these into previous posts.

 

[hasantas]

Qur’an get human to read itself allways for centuries. Except scriptures non of any other book have such an attribute. Ofcourse Bible is read very much but to understand case of Qur’an you should live within Muslims. Being read so much for centuries is an evidence for Qur’an to be eternal word of God.

 

[MartinJordan]

Are you a bit obsessed?

Do you not like me to quote from Bible? And when I want to express an issue so I should recite related verses. Why you think that is wrong? Or it bother you when I refute you from Bible?

I don’t wantt you to misrepresent the Bible which was put together by the Church for its benefit. Not to be disrespected by skipping verses which is akin to insulting our intelligence

Now you can please dispense with calling hurtful characterisations like calling me obsessed. Kindly reply as my queries with honest answers . There is no shame in admitting you don’t know. For the sake of good order and the love of God be forthright with my queries above.

Peace be with you .

MJ

 

[JimmyDFG]

There is no any valid knowledge about family of Mary from Christianic sources(Saint Anne and Joachim are not clear!). So why Mary would not have a brother?

Qur’an is direct word of God and Qur’an is not similar to Bible which was written by people later. When you say Muhammad confused so that is very pity of you because Qur’an is not speech of Muhammad!

Though valid Gospels are not original yet you say we should regard an apocrypha Bible!

hasantas, You deny the valid knowledge that there is
The earliest known account of Mary’s birth is found in the Protoevangelium of James (5:2), an apocryphal text from the late second century, with her parents known as Saint Anne and Saint Joachim.
Mary was promised to Joaquin and Anne by an angel, was consecrated to God, and she remained a virgin all her life.

3:36 "But when she delivered her, she said, “My Lord, I have delivered a female.” And Allah was most knowing of what she delivered, “And the male is not like the female. And I have named her Mary,…”

Christian view is that Joachim and Anne where promised a girl Mary
Islamic view is that Mary’s parents where surprised at the birth of a girl

Furthermore on Aaron had no daughter so in Luke 1:5 “… was from the daughters of Aaron…” is without a doubt using a form of descendancy

In the Quran 19:28 “O sister of Aaron” is in question

I will ask again…Is “sister” in the Quran ever used metaphorically when speaking of relationships between people?

 

[MartinJordan]

hasantas, You deny the valid knowledge that there is
The earliest known account of Mary’s birth is found in the Protoevangelium of James (5:2), an apocryphal text from the late second century, with her parents known as Saint Anne and Saint Joachim.
Mary was promised to Joaquin and Anne by an angel, was consecrated to God, and she remained a virgin all her life.

3:36 "But when she delivered her, she said, “My Lord, I have delivered a female.” And Allah was most knowing of what she delivered, “And the male is not like the female. And I have named her Mary,…”

Christian view is that Joachim and Anne where promised a girl Mary
Islamic view is that Mary’s parents where surprised at the birth of a girl

Furthermore on Aaron had no daughter so in Luke 1:5 “… was from the daughters of Aaron…” is without a doubt using a form of descendancy

In the Quran 19:28 “O sister of Aaron” is in question

I will ask again…Is “sister” in the Quran ever used metaphorically when speaking of relationships between people?

It seems clear now that the Quran cannot trace early Christian writings.

MJ

 

[jakasaki]

That is not something interest in being best seller list! You do not understand. A Muslim read whole Qur’an more than 100 times. And verses of Qur’an are read in Salat by a Muslim at least 40 times a day. There is no any time in which Qur’an is not read on the world. I explained these into previous posts.

Nothing within my post/reply to your thread specifies “best seller list”.

My query with google was “most **read **book” and the results I posted what just that!

A Muslim read whole Qur’an more than 100 times.

100 times what? A day? A week? A month? A year?

Are 1.5 billion Muslims all literate?

And verses of Qur’an are read in Salat by a Muslim at least 40 times a day.

Any facts/statistics to back this up?

 

[zamyrabyrd]

My query with google was “most **read **book” and the results I posted what just that!

I got the Bible as the most read book.

Are 1.5 billion Muslims all literate?
Any facts/statistics to back this up?

Very good point! The introduction of moveable type printing in 1439 resulted in everyman being able to have a Bible in his own house, not that everyone was literate but it sure contributed to literacy. In pioneer America the Bible was the essential, most read book.

I came upon the following when questioning the acceptance of printing in the Arabic world and was not surprised to see that there was at least a 100 year gap in its implementation:

" For a long time however, movable type printing remained mainly the business of Europeans working from within the confines of their colonies. According to Suraiya Faroqhi, lack of interest and religious reasons were among the reasons for the slow adoption of the printing press outside Europe: Thus, the printing of Arabic, after encountering strong opposition by Muslim legal scholars and the manuscript scribes, remained prohibited in the Ottoman empire between 1483 and 1729, initially even on penalty of death,while some movable Arabic type printing was done by Pope Julius II (1503−1512) for distribution among Middle Eastern Christians, and the oldest Qur’an printed with movable type was produced in Venice in 1537/1538 for the Ottoman market." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_spread_of_the_printing_press#Middle_East

Still it took a longer time for printing as opposed to hand written script to catch on:
“1734 Monastery of St. John, Khenchara, Lebanon - First printing press in Arabic
1729[Constantinople Ibrahim Muteferrika First press for printing in Arabic established in the Ottoman Empire, against opposition from the calligraphers and parts of the Ulama. It operated until 1742, producing altogether seventeen works, all of which were concerned with non-religious, utilitarian matters…Due to religious qualms, Sultan Bayezid II and successors prohibited printing in Arabic script in the Ottoman empire from 1483 on penalty of death, but printing in other scripts was done by Jews as well as the Greek and Armenian communities (1515 Saloniki, 1554 Bursa (Adrianople), 1552 Belgrade, 1658 Smyrna). In 1727, Sultan Achmed III gave his permission for the establishment of the first legal print house for printing secular works in Arabic script (religious publications still remained forbidden), but printing activities did not really take off until the 19th century.”

Illiteracy is another problem up to the present where girls traditionally did not go to school and the fellahin had to work in the fields. But the bigger obstacle is the language of the Quran, more than 1200 years old and very different from the various spoken dialects all over the Arab world. The gap is almost as wide between the Latin of the educated classes in Europe several hundred years ago and the patois. This difference is a stumbling block to foreigners who want to learn Arabic and speak it on the streets, as written Arabic used in communication and the media is somewhere in between.

It is only recently an emphasis in schooling and learning has made possible for the masses to be able to understand the Quran, not an easy task at all. The difficulty is heightened in countries such as Pakistan or Indonesia where Arabic is not a spoken language so one may as well learn Latin as was done in Europe so as to understand religious texts or the Mass for instance.

At any rate, it doesn’t seem logical that given the head start that printing had in Christian countries that the Quran would overtake the Bible in terms of readership.*

 

[jakasaki]

I got the Bible as the most read book.

… snip …

Correct! I did post that in my original answer to hasantas.

Here is my original reply to the poster.

Originally Posted by jakasaki View Post
I googled the most read books & here are the top 10 results.

By the way - the Quran is not in there.
**
Quote: “The most read book in the world is the Bible.”**

Source: businessinsider.com/the-t…raphic-2012-12

 

[JimmyDFG]

It seems clear now that the Quran cannot trace early Christian writings.

MJ

An E for effort