The Book Which is Most being read:Qur'an

[MartinJordan]

Hello Martin.

Could you please explain the point of view of Christianity on this?

Because I really do not know what a Christian means when he or she say that God is Love.

Dear Gunner7070, I could write so much on this and tell you my experience and being with the Church Jesus started and trace historically how we as Christians always Praise God as a God of Love.

As far as I can state (I could use the Catechism to tell you) but feel it always best to tell you through my study and experience as a practicing Catholic, it stems from the first two Laws of God which we received from Judaism. Respect for our elder brothers in Faith is integral to understand why we are same in worshiping the God of Abraham.

To be concise (that is not really possible but let me start if off) , is related and originates from the first two Commandments.

This Love of God is not a emotional, human term, but encompasses the Charity of God. The Love of God and of neighbor is passed on to us to follow. God’s Love is beyond human standards but we try to understand His Laws by sharing our goods with our neighbor and that is Charity.

From the earliest days of the Church, sharing our goods with those in need was the first step in showing this Love.

So much more there is, but I’ll let you ponder over it. If you have further questions, I’ll continue or can message by PM.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[JimmyDFG]

Then you did not read my posts. I think you know well that Muslims believe in Bible also. That is one requirement of faith for Muslims. What I arise is about original text of Bible in Aramaic and some comments and statement of writers.

“Muslims believe in Bible also”
You believe in the Bible and everything that’s in it… Or do you believe only parts of the Bible that fits an islamic view?

Who said to only believe in the Bible that is of Aramaic Language?

The Bible was written in Greek at the time of muhammad so why does the quran in 5:47
“Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.”

No mention of Aramaic Language

 

[hasantas]

What was man created from: blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
1.“Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood,” (96:2).
2."We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
3.“The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: “Be”. And he was,” (3:59).
4.“But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?” (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
5."He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

Man was created while it was nothing through dust or clay and blood and again after death. How? Firstly there were no human in existence and God started to creating from dust or clay(these words are to express a kind of soil) and after being a biological structure through impregnation. Here some miraculous attributes of Qur’an seem.

12- And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.

13- Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.

14- Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators.

15- Then indeed, after that you are to die.

16- Then indeed you, on the Day of Resurrection, will be resurrected. Al-Mu’minun(23)

The first miraculous attributes is in literature and that emerge from abstract of case. Just think how many books or theories established to find how life emerged. And those were productions of centuries. Yet non of them could explain exactly. And then think researchs and inventions in medical science to discover stages and phases of human into womb until birth. Medical science explain those knowledges through very advanced invention just like X-ray or ultrasound etc. in huge books. And science could not find what will happen after death! Now do you know a scientist who could brief very long span of time from nothing to end and beyond of death? Qur’an do that through just some sentences. Then who spoke these sentences in Qur’an must know all times and all sciences. Was Muhammad aware of any of those? No. Then who is that speaker? He can be merely creator of universe and of human and of time and of everything. And He is God who speak directly in Qur’an which make Qur’an miraculous.

The other attribute is informing about future very correctly. Qur’an prophecy about evolutional phases of human in the womb. That could be discovered very recently. Muhammad was not able to know scientific knowledges especially if we think that He was in desert region upon that times. Then these words could be belong to someone who can know all times and sciences.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Man was created while it was nothing through dust or clay and blood and again after death. How? Firstly there were no human in existence and God started to creating from dust or clay(these words are to express a kind of soil) and after being a biological structure through impregnation. Here some miraculous attributes of Qur’an seem.

12- And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.

13- Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.

14- Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators.

15- Then indeed, after that you are to die.

16- Then indeed you, on the Day of Resurrection, will be resurrected. Al-Mu’minun(23)

The first miraculous attributes is in literature and that emerge from abstract of case. Just think how many books or theories established to find how life emerged. And those were productions of centuries. Yet non of them could explain exactly. And then think researchs and inventions in medical science to discover stages and phases of human into womb until birth. Medical science explain those knowledges through very advanced invention just like X-ray or ultrasound etc. in huge books. And science could not find what will happen after death! Now do you know a scientist who could brief very long span of time from nothing to end and beyond of death? Qur’an do that through just some sentences. Then who spoke these sentences in Qur’an must know all times and all sciences. Was Muhammad aware of any of those? No. Then who is that speaker? He can be merely creator of universe and of human and of time and of everything. And He is God who speak directly in Qur’an which make Qur’an miraculous.

The other attribute is informing about future very correctly. Qur’an prophecy about evolutional phases of human in the womb. That could be discovered very recently. Muhammad was not able to know scientific knowledges especially if we think that He was in desert region upon that times. Then these words could be belong to someone who can know all times and sciences.

In the verses you gave I am assuming that it is allah that is speaking since its talking about the beginnings of human life.
In the quran 23:12-14 who is the “We” allah is referring to?

I’m sure muhammad could have witnessed a child birth , before he had his revelations, as he was a merchant. Which would certainly make a person think… even kids to this very day ask “where do babies come from?” Now if something came into form from a “sperm drop” one came draw his/her own conclusions from what took place. If one knows that there is blood,bones,flesh in and on a human and it comes into form in the womb, one can speculate on how.

As for this ("sperm drop"quran 23:14) in the quran 86:6-7
He was created from a fluid, ejected,
Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs.

At first reading of this quranic verse, it is obvious that the error is that sperm comes from a man’s chest. After all, the chest is “between the backbone and the ribs”? The abdomen is below the backbone and ribs, and the male testicles are far below that.

 

[eddie_too]

i have heard it said,or something similar said, that a lie circles the world twice before the truth even gets out of bed.

is that pertinent to how much the Qur’an might be being read, or the alleged popularity of the Qur’an?

 

[jlhargus]

A bit slowly, please! You start so fast that is very likely to cause some accidents. Gabriel did not write Qur’an. He revealed to Muhammad the Qur’an verses in a process which last about 23 years.

JL: I did not say Gabriel wrote the quran, but told Mohammad to take and read. There seems to be several different views on what took place at this first encounter. Where and what do you say happened and what was said to Mohammad?

It was very possible until death of Muhammad that revelation might come in any time. There were writers of revelation and they were used to write revelation ever it came. Many of Sahabas were used to write verses also. After death of prophet Muslims organized a commission to compiled verses in a book. If muslims had done that before death of prophet so they would have to abolish the previous copy which would arise more difficulties and doubts. Commission worked very carefully and they did not accept a verse which was not approved at least by 2 witness. So there was no any possibility for an accidentally case.

JL: If this is true hasantas then why was it necessary to gather all these sayings and writings from many different people and sources, such as rocks, palm leaves etc.? What you are really telling me, it was not possible for a mistake because two witnesses are an infallible method.

And … Anyway. If you say perhaps they did not work correctly or perhaps Gabriel did not come and revealed etc. then we can suspect everything perhaps history even about our selves which is non sense.

I do not believe God or Gabriel revealed anything to Mohammad. [Gal1:8 But **though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.]

Here Qur’an which is miraculous and Qur’an challenge for about 1400 years if someones do not believe.

Don’t just tell me the quran is miraculous show me with evidence. Anyone can say or claim anything without evidence. I have and English quran. If moslems believe in the bible shouldn’t they have and read it?

 

[JimmyDFG]

Please Jimmy give me an answer to my question.

Because I capitalize the letters of names that have meaning in Christianity

 

[hasantas]

Frankly I regard Bible because there are revelation in it. I just comment on that there are some comments and statements of writers in Bible. Christians do not regard Bible seriously but instead they regard some doctrines without Bible and they try to denominate it as if it is from scripture. Objection of Qur’an is about that. Although there are some comments and statements of writers in Bible yet that situation of Bible is better than doctrines.

 

[hasantas]

Then why wasn’t those comments and statements of writers corrected by Mohammad and the bible added to the quran?

Qur’an corrected one most importand of those comments “Trinity”.

 

[hasantas]

Ottoman Empire was not Islam itself. Although Ottoman Empire ruled through justice very much but they did some faults also. Can you point a Christianic state which never mistake?

 

[SyroMalankara]

Qur’an corrected one most importand of those comments “Trinity”.

Clearly it is not from heaven, since it states Father Son and Mary as its definition

 

[SyroMalankara]

Ottoman Empire was not Islam itself. Although Ottoman Empire ruled through justice very much but they did some faults also. Can you point a Christianic state which never mistake?

So all faults are attributed to politics and all good to the Mohammedian religion?

 

[hasantas]

Your brother in Faith, Gunner7070 consistently uses only the Quran to state the Islamic view (and that is means he is being very consistent), yet you need to refer to the Bible. Why is that?

Peace be with you.

MJ

I think if he go on further so he will start do that.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

Ottoman Empire was not Islam itself. Although Ottoman Empire ruled through justice very much but they did some faults also. Can you point a Christianic state which never mistake?

I am truly sorry about this, but more that supposed Christians were involved in the slave trade from Africa for a couple hundred years:
originalpeople.org/the-arab-muslim-slave-trade-of-africans-the-untold-story/

Saudi Arabia had an estimated 300,000 slaves in 1960. Slavery was then officially abolished, but unofficially continues to exist. Southern Sudanese often wind up as slaves. I don’t what else to call the abduction of Nigerian school girls by Boko Haram.

 

[MartinJordan]

I think if he go on further so he will start do that.

Unlikely because he agrees skipping verses and taking bits and pieces is not a right method. And he reiterated he reads only Quran and Hadiths only because he is a Muslim.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[jlhargus]

Qur’an corrected one most importand of those comments “Trinity”.

Actually hasantas the Quran is in error and totally misrepresents the Christian teaching concerning the Trinity.

Sura 5:116 implies Christians teach and took Jesus and Mary as two gods besides God. Forming a triad, God and two partners. It is most grossly in error when it implies the Church ever taught Mary was one of the Trinity. Such a teaching would be blasphemy.

Sura 4:171 … people of the book …… don’t say there are three gods ……

Again blasphemy the Church nor the bible has ever taught such a false teaching. Only a person who is truly ignorant of Christian teaching would have written such false concepts. The fact its in the quran tells me the quran is of human origin. Those errors could not have come from an all knowing God.

Muslims do well to believe God is One for God is truly One as the Church and the bible has always taught. One indivisible God=Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Three indivisible persons in the One Indivisible Divine Essence=Being of the One God. There are not three Gods nor are there one God and two partners. The Trinity is the One Indivisible God.

 

[hasantas]

In the verses you gave I am assuming that it is allah that is speaking since its talking about the beginnings of human life.
In the quran 23:12-14 who is the “We” allah is referring to?

I’m sure muhammad could have witnessed a child birth , before he had his revelations, as he was a merchant. Which would certainly make a person think… even kids to this very day ask “where do babies come from?” Now if something came into form from a “sperm drop” one came draw his/her own conclusions from what took place. If one knows that there is blood,bones,flesh in and on a human and it comes into form in the womb, one can speculate on how.

As for this ("sperm drop"quran 23:14) in the quran 86:6-7
He was created from a fluid, ejected,
Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs.

At first reading of this quranic verse, it is obvious that the error is that sperm comes from a man’s chest. After all, the chest is “between the backbone and the ribs”? The abdomen is below the backbone and ribs, and the male testicles are far below that.

Scholars interpret these verses in that way: The part of body between backbone and rib is the zone of breeding-ground. Human is not just produced by sperm but with woman’s too. So backbone imply man and rib point woman or full action of birth originate among this part of body. It is not just about man but both man and woman.

 

[hasantas]

In the verses you gave I am assuming that it is allah that is speaking since its talking about the beginnings of human life.
In the quran 23:12-14 who is the “We” allah is referring to?

.

Hımm. There are also verses in OT in which God do not say “I” but “we”. Islamic scholars interpret in that way: About one of three part(1/3) of Qur’an is about Tawhid which mean God is one and unique. So there should be another interpretation of such verses in which God say “we”.

• God witness angels for His actions. Yes there is an attest angel for every action of God. For instance Gabriel attest/bring revelation and Azrael(angel of death) witness/take souls etc. Creating of Adam was under witnessing of angels and Satan.
• God act through means and the most importand instruments are the angels and those means. When God say “we” so God imply also angels. But do not forget that God had created angels and given life and power. God had supported Jesus by Holy Spirit.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Scholars interpret these verses in that way: The part of body between backbone and rib is the zone of breeding-ground. Human is not just produced by sperm but with woman’s too. So backbone imply man and rib point woman or full action of birth originate among this part of body. It is not just about man but both man and woman.

Allah is all knowing so why wouldn’t the quran give a more detailed description of where… instead of a “zone”.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Hımm. There are also verses in OT in which God do not say “I” but “we”. Islamic scholars interpret in that way: About one of three part(1/3) of Qur’an is about Tawhid which mean God is one and unique. So there should be another interpretation of such verses in which God say “we”.

• God witness angels for His actions. Yes there is an attest angel for every action of God. For instance Gabriel attest/bring revelation and Azrael(angel of death) witness/take souls etc. Creating of Adam was under witnessing of angels and Satan.
• God act through means and the most importand instruments are the angels and those means. When God say “we” so God imply also angels. But do not forget that God had created angels and given life and power. God had supported Jesus by Holy Spirit

Quran 23:12
“And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.”

So is it allah and the angels that created life …wouldn’t only be allah?

We is often used by a speaker to refer to himself or herself and one or more other considered together. But why not use “angels” instead of “we”…unless there is truly someone else!!!