The "born again" argument

[gitanesteel]

Need a little help here. I did a search for this topic but came up empty.

My children are attending our local non-denominational Christian school (smaller classes, better overall social message, etc.) in our small town. If there was a Catholic option we’d definitely be there.

The other day a mother of one of the other students was telling me how “I was so close to leading your daughter to Christ at camp this summer”. “I kept asking her if she was ready to accept Jesus into her heart”.

I have to say I was 1) taken aback by her actions and 2) ticked off at her ignorance of our faith. I took the conversation to be we’re not Christian because I’m Catholic. Maybe my interpretation was wrong. But it also got me thinking, what are some of the better arguments to use with a Protestant over the “you have to accept Jesus in your heart” to be Christian. I know it’s part of their evangelization but it’s still irritating that she’s coming after my kids like that.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Apollos]

“I was so close to leading your daughter to Christ at camp this summer”.

Next time say, “Now that you mention it, the Lord has laid it upon my heart to take the next step, to lead you to his body the Church. Have you heard of the Four Marks of the Church?” and take it from there.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Wow, that woman sounded way out of line to me.

Apollos’s answer was a good one.

 

[Nine_Two]

A great many Protestants don’t consider Catholics to be Christian, it’s sad but true.

 

[BornAgain2010]

Youre not Christian if youre Catholic? That doesn’t make any sense. Christian means you believe in God, Catholicism teaches that there is God. Therefore, Catholicism is a form of Christianity. Further more, youre Catholicand are therefore Christian.

A great many Protestants don’t consider Catholics to be Christian, it’s sad but true.

Oh, really? I never knew that. I thought they just had differing views on stuff. LOL
Which they obviously do.

Also, yeah, thats way out of line on the other lady’s part. Its really, really out of line.
That’s why I dont do evangelicals, retreats, etc. LOL

 

[flyonthewall]

Youre not Christian if youre Catholic? That doesn’t make any sense. Christian means you believe in God, Catholicism teaches that there is God. Therefore, Catholicism is a form of Christianity. Further more, youre Catholicand are therefore Christian.

I certainlly understand what you are saying.

Oh, really? I never knew that. I thought they just had differing views on stuff. LOL
Which they obviously do.

Wow, this sounds so familiar.

Also, yeah, thats way out of line on the other lady’s part. Its really, really out of line.

Although I agree with you on this, to the lady in question, she more than likely was simply speaking truth as she understood it…should one be ashamed to speak truth?

 

[jmcrae]

Need a little help here. I did a search for this topic but came up empty.

My children are attending our local non-denominational Christian school (smaller classes, better overall social message, etc.) in our small town. If there was a Catholic option we’d definitely be there.

The other day a mother of one of the other students was telling me how “I was so close to leading your daughter to Christ at camp this summer”. “I kept asking her if she was ready to accept Jesus into her heart”.

It has probably never occurred to this woman that Catholics come to Jesus differently.

I have to say I was 1) taken aback by her actions and 2) ticked off at her ignorance of our faith. I took the conversation to be we’re not Christian because I’m Catholic.

Actually, no - she does believe that you’re Christian - that’s why she’s trying to help you lead your kids to Christ. Remember, she has no concept of infant baptism, or of the Sacraments - she believes that in order to become a Christian (and be like Mommy and Daddy) children have to make their own profession of faith when they reach the age of reason.

What I would do is just sit down with her and explain to her about the Sacraments - that it is through the Sacraments that Catholics come to Christ, and that your daughter is participating according to her ability and age in the Sacraments, and that, thank you, she has a strong relationship with Jesus, already - she doesn’t need an “altar call.”

Follow that up with Apollo’s suggestion - teach her about the Church.

 

[BornAgain2010]

Wow, this sounds so familiar.

I wasnt trying to start anything or whatever.

Its just my parents never really taught me anything about other religions, and I just never concerned myself as I never felt that they applied to me.

i.e. Okay theres a no-smoking in restaurants. ‘I dont smoke anyway, so it doesnt really apply to me.’

If that makes sense…

 

[flyonthewall]

I wasnt trying to start anything or whatever.

Its just my parents never really taught me anything about other religions, and I just never concerned myself as I never felt that they applied to me.

i.e. Okay theres a no-smoking in restaurants. ‘I dont smoke anyway, so it doesnt really apply to me.’

If that makes sense…

I know you were’nt trying to start anything…I wasn’t really trying to either.
There have been several Catholic posters here that do the same thing with my faith, and we try to use the same language you have, only to have my faith in Christ denied me.
Because my views don’t line up with theirs, I must not believe in the same God.

I just found it interesting that it leaves you scratching your fead for the same reason that claim leaves us scratching ours.

 

[Julian0404]

I am surprised that you are surprised. Especially with sending your children to the “Church Camp”. I am not making a statement that it was wrong to send your children to the protestant school or camp, and in lieu of any catholic alternative verses the “public schools”, you are demonstrating a faith based approach to raising your children, with the sole exception of being caught off guard with the “modus operandi” of their standard “evangelizing” as well as the main purpose of “Camp”.
You need to home school your children in the faith and prepare them for future evangelizing as it is coming.

 

[SteveVH]

I know you were’nt trying to start anything…I wasn’t really trying to either.
There have been several Catholic posters here that do the same thing with my faith, and we try to use the same language you have, only to have my faith in Christ denied me.
Because my views don’t line up with theirs, I must not believe in the same God.

I just found it interesting that it leaves you scratching your fead for the same reason that claim leaves us scratching ours.

One big difference, flyonthewall. I have never known a Catholic to tell the parent of a Mormon child " I came so close to bringing your child to Mass last Sunday. I kept asking her if she was ready to join the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church".
While I would love to convert a Mormon, I would never come close to taking advantage of one of their children.

I had the same experience when we first moved to the town in which we now live. Because we were new someone invited my two boys, ages 10 and 13 at the time, to come to one of their youth groups and meet some of the kids. I thought it couldn’t hurt. My two boys were then told that they were doomed to hell because they were Catholic and needed to ask Jesus to come into their hearts. They needed to become Christians.

I didn’t have to beg my kids not to go back. I also told the people who invited them that I had never experienced such deceit by one who would call themselves Christian and would not allow my kids to be in the presence of such arrogant ignorance.

 

[Drew0426]

A great many Protestants don’t consider Catholics to be Christian, it’s sad but true.

Oh absolutely…

I recently moved to Iowa from Georgia, where I spent the first 15 years of my life… Religion came up in school one day, and my sister told somebody she was Catholic. The girl’s response was “AH! You’re not Christian?!” and that was a view that a lot of non-Catholics held… Very sad indeed.

 

[flyonthewall]

One big difference, flyonthewall. I have never known a Catholic to tell the parent of a Mormon child " I came so close to bringing your child to Mass last Sunday. I kept asking her if she was ready to join the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church".
While I would love to convert a Mormon, I would never come close to taking advantage of one of their children.

I agreed that it was way out of line and inappropriate to try and “convert” children.

I had the same experience when we first moved to the town in which we now live. Because we were new someone invited my two boys, ages 10 and 13 at the time, to come to one of their youth groups and meet some of the kids. I thought it couldn’t hurt. My two boys were then told that they were doomed to hell because they were Catholic and needed to ask Jesus to come into their hearts. They needed to become Christians.

To tell someone they are “doomed to hell” because of the faith they have is certainly not Christ-like IMO.

I didn’t have to beg my kids not to go back. I also told the people who invited them that I had never experienced such deceit by one who would call themselves Christian and would not allow my kids to be in the presence of such arrogant ignorance.

I would not willingly expose my children to such beliefs either. I would leave them to their own beliefs too.

 

[SteveVH]

I agreed that it was way out of line and inappropriate to try and “convert” children.

To tell someone they are “doomed to hell” because of the faith they have is certainly not Christ-like IMO.

I would not willingly expose my children to such beliefs either. I would leave them to their own beliefs too.

Amen!

 

[Cat_Herder]

Ask her where the “personal Lord and Savior” routine is in the Bible. It isn’t.

This is how the Bible says to be saved. You might want to arm your child with a Bible with these verses flagged.

 

[lynnareyno]

Need a little help here. I did a search for this topic but came up empty.

My children are attending our local non-denominational Christian school (smaller classes, better overall social message, etc.) in our small town. If there was a Catholic option we’d definitely be there.

The other day a mother of one of the other students was telling me how “I was so close to leading your daughter to Christ at camp this summer”. “I kept asking her if she was ready to accept Jesus into her heart”.

I have to say I was 1) taken aback by her actions and 2) ticked off at her ignorance of our faith. I took the conversation to be we’re not Christian because I’m Catholic. Maybe my interpretation was wrong. But it also got me thinking, what are some of the better arguments to use with a Protestant over the “you have to accept Jesus in your heart” to be Christian. I know it’s part of their evangelization but it’s still irritating that she’s coming after my kids like that.

Thanks in advance for the help.

I would smile sweetly and say " Thank you for your good intentions intentions, but my daughter already has Jesus in her heart by virtue of her baptism she is part of the body of Christ". And depending on your daughter’s age, I would add that “she receives( or witnesses) the real presence of Christ at Mass every Sunday. You can’t get any closer than that” " Would you like to attend Mass sometime and be in Christ’s presence- Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity?"
I would also tell her that you will pray for her to** really **know Jesus in all his fullness.

 

[gitanesteel]

A great many Protestants don’t consider Catholics to be Christian, it’s sad but true.

This fact I am well aware of. My grandparents were staunchly anti-Catholic.

It has probably never occurred to this woman that Catholics come to Jesus differently.

Actually, no - she does believe that you’re Christian - that’s why she’s trying to help you lead your kids to Christ. Remember, she has no concept of infant baptism, or of the Sacraments - she believes that in order to become a Christian (and be like Mommy and Daddy) children have to make their own profession of faith when they reach the age of reason.

What I would do is just sit down with her and explain to her about the Sacraments - that it is through the Sacraments that Catholics come to Christ, and that your daughter is participating according to her ability and age in the Sacraments, and that, thank you, she has a strong relationship with Jesus, already - she doesn’t need an “altar call.”

Follow that up with Apollo’s suggestion - teach her about the Church.

Thank you - I hadn’t really considered this aspect but it may be right on. I look forward to the opportunity to discuss this with her at some point in the future.

I am surprised that you are surprised. Especially with sending your children to the “Church Camp”. I am not making a statement that it was wrong to send your children to the protestant school or camp, and in lieu of any catholic alternative verses the “public schools”, you are demonstrating a faith based approach to raising your children, with the sole exception of being caught off guard with the “modus operandi” of their standard “evangelizing” as well as the main purpose of “Camp”.
You need to home school your children in the faith and prepare them for future evangelizing as it is coming.

I was more surprised that she was “going after” one of my kids. That’s the part that really bugged me. Is it a risk sending them to the school and camp - yes. But, we feel it’s also the best option for them to learn to live a more wholesome life of service to others and Christ vs. the public schools. The administration of the school is very clear on not evangelizing students, but that didn’t stop this parent - and probably wouldn’t since it was a non-school function. Heck, out of 96 students at the school last year 18 of them were Catholic - that’s a huge chunk of their tuition. I think I was more naive that it wouldn’t happen to one of my kids.

We are definitely homeschooling the children on the faith. In addition, I teach our 5th grade CCD class and my wife is the Director of Religious Education at our church.

 

[jmcrae]

I was more surprised that she was “going after” one of my kids.

If it’s any comfort, they probably weren’t singling out your child - all the kids are supposed to make their Altar Call at Bible Camp, if they haven’t done it before - that’s how it’s done. They were making their own kids do it, and they were hoping your daughter would join the group. Maybe just teach your child to say, “I’ve already got Jesus in my heart, but thanks for asking!”

 

[gitanesteel]

I would smile sweetly and say " Thank you for your good intentions intentions, but my daughter already has Jesus in her heart by virtue of her baptism she is part of the body of Christ". And depending on your daughter’s age, I would add that “she receives( or witnesses) the real presence of Christ at Mass every Sunday. You can’t get any closer than that” " Would you like to attend Mass sometime and be in Christ’s presence- Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity?"
I would also tell her that you will pray for her to** really **know Jesus in all his fullness.

Thank you - that’s exactly the kind of helpful/insightful suggestion I was hoping for.

 

[Bluegoat]

In some Protestant circles it is normal for all kids, once they are old enough, to make their own professionof faith. They are supposed to have an “experience” of faith on their own. The mum may well have assumed that Catholics understand something similar.

Which isn’t totally untrue. Most times Catholics wait until their children are older to confirm, and if they do, it is supposed to be the child’s choice to do so. We all know that there is something special and personally significant about a mature decision to be a Christian, to keep going to church. So I think you can probably relate to her at that level.

(Now, something that, IMO, often happens in these Protestant groups, is that the kids have these “experiences” as a result of social pressure, whether they know it or not.)

I would tell her that you appreciate her helping your daughter in her journey toward God, but that Catholics see this as something that happens each day that we make a decision to live as God chose, but that you don’t think putting pressure on to do this as some kind of definitive one time thing is the best idea.

While discussing infant baptism might be interesting, I think there is a good chance she would simply discount it as actually being “saving” in any way.