The Bottom Line on Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion

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thistle:
As I mentioned in an earlier post our church has 10 Masses on Sunday with 1500+ attending each Mass.** It could not be done without EMHC’s.** Are you telling me that because you would only have a priest distribute we (in our parish) should tell people to stay home because they have no chance to receive Communion because we would have to cut down the number of Masses if we were not using EMHC’s
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You’re wrong. With enough priests, deacons or instituted acolytes there would NEVER be a need to use EMsHC.

BTW, while I sorta doubt your parish actually have ~15K people attending Mass every Sunday, if it does, it needs to be split into multiple parishes…
 
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AltarMan:
You’re wrong. With enough priests, deacons or instituted acolytes there would NEVER be a need to use EMsHC.

BTW, while I sorta doubt your parish actually have ~15K people attending Mass every Sunday, if it does, it needs to be split into multiple parishes…
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This is the Philippines. 85% Catholic. That means 73 million Catholics. Believe the numbers I gave you. People here live and breathe our Lord. All churches are packed full every Sunday. Its not like the West with generally low attendences.
 
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thistle:
As I mentioned in an earlier post our church has 10 Masses on Sunday with 1500+ attending each Mass. It could not be done without EMHC’s. Are you telling me that because you would only have a priest distribute we (in our parish) should tell people to stay home because they have no chance to receive Communion because we would have to cut down the number of Masses if we were not using EMHC’s
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Hence, the reason why the Church allows EMHC’s - for situations such as this. Using Cardinal Arinze’s yardstick, I would estimate between 10-15 priests, deacons and EMHC’s to distribute communion.

Thistle - how many priests are working within the parish and how many of them distribute at multiple Masses (on average)? I am wondering if it is like I’ve often seen in churches around my suburban home (not my urban parish), where there are two priests, but only one is seen at any given Mass during Communion. Surely, your parish has several priests. Do all or most engage in Communion or is it only the celebrant?
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I’m sure that’s part of it but it’s hard to say that our attendance is poor because you hear that some of our churches are not full. We are not as concentrated in Catholic as you and some of the people here are in rural parishes.

Also, the innovative masses drive people away. Thank God our parish and the Grotto are bringing people back.
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Put Assumption Grotto in the suburbs - say, Chesterfield, and within 5 years, she would be bursting at the seams as people learned of her. Many are afraid to come into Detroit.
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
Hence, the reason why the Church allows EMHC’s - for situations such as this. Using Cardinal Arinze’s yardstick, I would estimate between 10-15 priests, deacons and EMHC’s to distribute communion.

Thistle - how many priests are working within the parish and how many of them distribute at multiple Masses (on average)? I am wondering if it is like I’ve often seen in churches around my suburban home (not my urban parish), where there are two priests, but only one is seen at any given Mass during Communion. Surely, your parish has several priests. Do all or most engage in Communion or is it only the celebrant?
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We have three priests but only one at each Mass because the other two are out at other churches doing the Mass then it becomes like musical chairs all moving around. I have never seen all three at a Mass.
 
In the “old days”, when people received Holy Communion on the tongue, while kneeling at the altar rail, one priest could go right down the line and distribute about one Host per second. In fact, the priest said “Corpus Domine nostri Jesu Christi” so fast that he was allowed to “spread” the saying across three communicants.

However, nowadays people receive Communion standing up. The process takes several seconds per person. Maybe ten seconds each. As a result, if just one priest were to disribute all the Hosts, the Mass would take much longer and because we have so many Masses each Sunday, … the logistics of serving the people would be overwhelming.

In addition, “nowadays” Holy Communion is offered under both species, thereby requiring more hands to help out.

I will argue whether or not there really is a “priest shortage”… artificially induced… priests preferring to work in the chancery office instead of “in the field” … etc, etc. ], nevertheless, in the “old days” one priest could handle all the distribution of Holy Communion. Sometimes a second priest might help out. But it’s impossible nowadays.
 
Al Masetti:
In the “old days”, when people received Holy Communion on the tongue, while kneeling at the altar rail, one priest could go right down the line and distribute about one Host per second. In fact, the priest said “Corpus Domine nostri Jesu Christi” so fast that he was allowed to “spread” the saying across three communicants.

However, nowadays people receive Communion standing up. The process takes several seconds per person. Maybe ten seconds each. As a result, if just one priest were to disribute all the Hosts, the Mass would take much longer and because we have so many Masses each Sunday, … the logistics of serving the people would be overwhelming.

In addition, “nowadays” Holy Communion is offered under both species, thereby requiring more hands to help out.
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Agreed. I receive at a rail (just began doing this in May) and I too notice that the distribution rate is actually faster. We receive the Host intincted and while Father doesn’t spread “Corpus et Sanguis Christi” across three communicants, I can hear it being said as he finished the person next to me and begins to walk. He’s grabbing a Host while walking and talking, then dips the Bread into the Wine just as the paten lands under my chin. Very fast, very smooth.

While this is actually faster for Him, it slows the communicants down. Instead of looking at someone’s backside and getting distracted by the sights as we move through procession, I get to kneel at a rail while some 20 people get Communion, and there is nothing in front of me but the altar. This is peaceful preparation time and it is what I love most about getting Communion at the rail.
 
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thistle:
This is the Philippines. 85% Catholic. That means 73 million Catholics. Believe the numbers I gave you. People here live and breathe our Lord. All churches are packed full every Sunday. Its not like the West with generally low attendences.
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Apples and oranges! Don’t try to equate devoutness with ramming 15K through a parish church every Sunday via 10 Masses. That’s not healthy for a community.

There are parts of the world with higher concentrations of Catholics – the Italy (97%), Luxembourg (96%), Malta (92%), Peru (91%), Colombia (90%), Monaco (90%), etc. etc. etc. that don’t process 15K people through a parish church via 10 Masses each Sunday.

Brazil (the country with the most Catholics of any country in the world is 86% Catholic – 140M, and I don’t hear of many 15K/Sunday Churches down there.)

“Living and breathing our Lord” is no reason for 10 Masses/Sunday – the failure to invest in property and plant is.

Back to my original point though – with enough priests, deacons and/or instituted acolytes, there is NO reason to ever use EMsHC.

Find out how that parish distributed communion before the use of EMsHC were allowed…
 
Al Masetti:
In the “old days”, when people received Holy Communion on the tongue, while kneeling at the altar rail, one priest could go right down the line and distribute about one Host per second. In fact, the priest said “Corpus Domine nostri Jesu Christi” so fast that he was allowed to “spread” the saying across three communicants.

However, nowadays people receive Communion standing up. The process takes several seconds per person. Maybe ten seconds each. As a result, if just one priest were to disribute all the Hosts, the Mass would take much longer and because we have so many Masses each Sunday, … the logistics of serving the people would be overwhelming.

In addition, “nowadays” Holy Communion is offered under both species, thereby requiring more hands to help out.

I will argue whether or not there really is a “priest shortage”… artificially induced… priests preferring to work in the chancery office instead of “in the field” … etc, etc. ], nevertheless, in the “old days” one priest could handle all the distribution of Holy Communion. Sometimes a second priest might help out. But it’s impossible nowadays.
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Nope.

First, for years at my parish, communion was distributed via one species or via intinction to people queued-up in a line. As I said in the original posting it took a single priest (with intinction an altar boy held the chalice) to distribute communion. Same parish, same priest (in some cases) and it now takes NINE people.

As an engineer with an interest in motion/time study I will sadly admit that I have time-studied a few Masses. The “distribution rate” (please forgive the crude language) was between .6 and 1.8 seconds for the Body of Christ, depending on the person distributing communion and the person receiving. Distribution of the Precious Blood took on avarage 57% longer. The standard deviation was quite high as I recall, suggesting that there was a wide range of distribution times/person.

Your ten second guess is way off line. If you don’t believe me, look at your watch while watching a televised EWTN Mass.

The purpose for the time studies (I had always attended an earlier or later Mass and discreetly timed from the choir loft) was to show that the the huge gang of EMsHC actually slowed down communion – which they did because it took them forever to receive communion themselves and because the large number adds to a great deal of confusion and inefficiency in the system…
 
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AltarMan:
Apples and oranges! Don’t try to equate devoutness with ramming 15K through a parish church every Sunday via 10 Masses. That’s not healthy for a community.

There are parts of the world with higher concentrations of Catholics – the Italy (97%), Luxembourg (96%), Malta (92%), Peru (91%), Colombia (90%), Monaco (90%), etc. etc. etc. that don’t process 15K people through a parish church via 10 Masses each Sunday.

Brazil (the country with the most Catholics of any country in the world is 86% Catholic – 140M, and I don’t hear of many 15K/Sunday Churches down there.)

“Living and breathing our Lord” is no reason for 10 Masses/Sunday – the failure to invest in property and plant is.

Back to my original point though – with enough priests, deacons and/or instituted acolytes, there is NO reason to ever use EMsHC.

Find out how that parish distributed communion before the use of EMsHC were allowed…
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Ummm, I think further clarification is needed.

The latest news I read is that despite 97% Catholics in Italy the pews are empty.

On the other hand, what percentage of the 85% attend Mass weekly in the Philipines? From what I understand, quite high.

Furthermore, your comment is way judgmental of the Catholics in the philipines. Maybe you should visit this parish and community before passing such rash judgment on them. There is a concentration of Philipino’s in my area and we have had many Philipino associate pastors. Let me tell you that they are among the most devout, and imho, have surpased the Mexicans, many of whom have been slipping into protestantism. Thank God for our devout brothers and sisters in the Philipines. You have to experience a country where Catholicism is highly devout to grasp this. Been there; done that, and actually lived abroad for nearly 3 years (not in Asia). You will appreciate your faith more when you see people traversing long distances to get to Mass weekly. And, you will see how shallow Americans on average are in regards to their Catholicism. Most spend more time worshiping the Panasonic in their living room, or the Dell on their desk.
 
The Mass of Vatican II

No Innovations Unless the Good of the Church Requires Them

But back to the Council. In the same paragraph of Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 14, the Council continues: “In the restoration and promotion of the sacred liturgy, this full and active participation by all the people is the aim to be considered before all else.” So the Council itself defines the primary aim of liturgical renewal: full, conscious and active participation. How does the Council initially intend for the aim to be achieved? That, also, is not something we have to guess at or speculate on: “And, therefore, pastors of souls must zealously strive to achieve it by means of the necessary instruction in all their pastoral work.” The Council’s idea is clear: the liturgy is to be renewed by promoting more active participation through the means of greater education. Nothing whatsoever is said here about any kind of changes or reform of the rite itself. Later, when changes are discussed, the Council states in paragraph 23: “There must be no innovations unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them.” So no changes unless there is a real, proven, demonstrable need.

Paragraph 23 continues: “And care must be taken that any new forms adopted should in some way grow organically from forms already existing.” Organic growth — like a plant, a flower, a tree — not something constructed by an intellectual elite, not things fabricated and tacked on, or brought back from ten centuries ago, or fifteen centuries ago, but an organic growth. That’s what the Council itself said.

Paragraph 48 begins the chapter on the Mass. And the title of this chapter is interesting. It’s not called “The Eucharist” or “The Mass”; it’s called “The Most Sacred Mystery of the Eucharist.” Even in the chapter title, you have the sense that what’s important is mystery, sacredness, awe, the transcendence of God.

more…
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
Ummm, I think further clarification is needed.

The latest news I read is that despite 97% Catholics in Italy the pews are empty.

On the other hand, what percentage of the 85% attend Mass weekly in the Philipines? From what I understand, quite high.

Furthermore, your comment is way judgmental of the Catholics in the philipines. Maybe you should visit this parish and community before passing such rash judgment on them. There is a concentration of Philipino’s in my area and we have had many Philipino associate pastors. Let me tell you that they are among the most devout, and imho, have surpased the Mexicans, many of whom have been slipping into protestantism. Thank God for our devout brothers and sisters in the Philipines. You have to experience a country where Catholicism is highly devout to grasp this. Been there; done that, and actually lived abroad for nearly 3 years (not in Asia). You will appreciate your faith more when you see people traversing long distances to get to Mass weekly. And, you will see how shallow Americans on average are in regards to their Catholicism. Most spend more time worshiping the Panasonic in their living room, or the Dell on their desk.
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The logic is still screwed. 10 Masses/Sunday and a total of 15K people is a product of not building enough church buildings to allow the people to create communities in which they can be a family - unless this level of Catholicism came on recently and suddenly (which it did not in the Philipines.)

You also need to practice what you preach. Your comment (actually judgement) “Maybe you should visit this parish and community before passing such rash judgment on them” – applies to both the Philipinos AND the Italians…

In the end, all this noise didn’t change my oroginal premise: WIth enough priests, deacons and/or instituted acolytes, there would NEVER be a need to use EMsHC.

I would be fascinated to learn what this parish did before EMsHC were allowed…
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
Agreed. I receive at a rail (just began doing this in May) and I too notice that the distribution rate is actually faster. We receive the Host intincted and while Father doesn’t spread “Corpus et Sanguis Christi” across three communicants, I can hear it being said as he finished the person next to me and begins to walk. He’s grabbing a Host while walking and talking, then dips the Bread into the Wine just as the paten lands under my chin. Very fast, very smooth.

While this is actually faster for Him, it slows the communicants down. Instead of looking at someone’s backside and getting distracted by the sights as we move through procession, I get to kneel at a rail while some 20 people get Communion, and there is nothing in front of me but the altar. This is peaceful preparation time and it is what I love most about getting Communion at the rail.
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At that point in the Mass, it’s the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ – at least where I attend the Mass.
 
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AltarMan:
The logic is still screwed. 10 Masses/Sunday and a total of 15K people is a product of not building enough church buildings to allow the people to create communities in which they can be a family - unless this level of Catholicism came on recently and suddenly (which it did not in the Philipines.)

You also need to practice what you preach. Your comment (actually judgement) “Maybe you should visit this parish and community before passing such rash judgment on them” – applies to both the Philipinos AND the Italians…

In the end, all this noise didn’t change my oroginal premise: WIth enough priests, deacons and/or instituted acolytes, there would NEVER be a need to use EMsHC.

I would be fascinated to learn what this parish did before EMsHC were allowed…
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You have not been very charitable to me, the filipinos or even the Church but I forgive you.
I don’t know if there are more devout Catholics anywhere but I would be surprised if many are more devout than the filipinos.
I am curious though how you think the real estate investment you talk about could have been achieved. This is a third world country where more than 40% of the people live below the poverty line. That means daily income of less than USD 2 per day. Could you live on that? This is a poor country and our churches here don’t even have missals never mind have funds to build additional churches. I don’t think you realise just how lucky you are living in the west. You should count your blessings instead of disparaging other countries.
Have you actually travelled to other countries and experienced Mass there?
 
thistle said:
You have not been very charitable to me, the filipinos or even the Church but I forgive you.
I don’t know if there are more devout Catholics anywhere but I would be surprised if many are more devout than the filipinos.
I am curious though how you think the real estate investment you talk about could have been achieved. This is a third world country where more than 40% of the people live below the poverty line. That means daily income of less than USD 2 per day. Could you live on that? This is a poor country and our churches here don’t even have missals never mind have funds to build additional churches. I don’t think you realise just how lucky you are living in the west. You should count your blessings instead of disparaging other countries.
Have you actually travelled to other countries and experienced Mass there?
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And unfortunately, you are rather judgemental…

I have traveled south of the US border where people seem to be extremely devout and Mass attendance is quite high. Though many are very poor they somehow make the investment so 10 Masses/Sunday (with 15K people) does not have to be celebrated at a single parish.

Historically many Catholics in the USA were dirt poor, yet some of the most magnificent churches and cathedrals were built with their blood, sweat, tears and pennies…
 
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AltarMan:
And unfortunately, you are rather judgemental…

I have traveled south of the US border where people seem to be extremely devout and Mass attendance is quite high. Though many are very poor they somehow make the investment so 10 Masses/Sunday (with 15K people) does not have to be celebrated at a single parish.

Historically many Catholics in the USA were dirt poor, yet some of the most magnificent churches and cathedrals were built with their blood, sweat, tears and pennies…
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Mexico is is rich country compared to the Philippines and you are still being uncharitable to the filipinos.
 
We have a very small Church. Never more than a 100 people at Mas son Sunday with only 12 people average during the week. Our Eucharistic Ministers handle the Chalice while the priest distributes the Host. Is this acceptable under the litugical guidelines? I do not see how the priest could handle the cup and the host at the same time, so this is why he is using Eucharistic Ministers?
 
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thistle:
We have three priests but only one at each Mass because the other two are out at other churches doing the Mass then it becomes like musical chairs all moving around. I have never seen all three at a Mass.
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Thistle,

The numbers aren’t jiving so maybe there is a mistake somewhere further up the thread. If there are 10 Masses and only 3 priests, how are all of these Masses being celebrated?
 
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