The boundaries of morality

[larry85704]

So often there are topics on this site that involve the actions of others, or our actions and sin. Sin seems to be a really common topic. The topic is “Moral Theology”; why sin is such a big part of Moral Theology escapes me.

Isn’t morality about doing what is right? Isn’t Theology about God? I guess “Moral Theology” is doing what God thinks is right. But we don’t know what God thinks. If you think you do, you have a big problem, because you don’t. Knowing the Bible and all the teachings of the Church does not mean you know what God thinks. So, the idea of Moral Theology being about what God thinks doesn’t make sense, it isn’t useful to me.

How about the idea that “Moral Theology” is doing what I think is right within my relationship with God? It becomes not what God thinks, but what I think, given all my experiences and education. At least I know what I think.

This way of looking at it also works with the idea that God gave us free will. He wants us to choose. He made us that way. It must be right. I think God wants us to choose to do what is right, given the tools He gave us to make the decision.

I think we have a tendency to go overboard with rules. I think about the Gospels and how Jesus pretty much associated with sinners, or people that I would not be all that comfortable with. What guts He had, to walk up to and talk with the people He associated with. If all Jesus thought about was all the rules these people were breaking how would He have ever been able to help them, or associate with them?

Ok, the Church has been more like Jesus. It has forgiven and forgot, and got in a lot of trouble. I think the way to go now is forgive, but don’t forget. Don’t transfer a troubled priest, essentially get rid of him. But forgive him. I really don’t have a problem with that. I think the moral thing is to do the responsible thing, to make it so others cannot be hurt.

In my life I was raised like the old Church, forgive and forget. Trust people you know. Wow, what pain that has brought me. That is stupid. Can anybody relate to that?

So, if we get away from the idea of associating with bad people because they are bad, where does that leave us? Are we following the teachings and example of Jesus? Are we supposed to?

You know, if we go around telling everybody about all the sins they commit we will solve that problem because nobody will associate with us.

Somehow I think I am responsible for me and me alone. If I am concerned about others then the results of my activities concerning them need to be right with God as I see it. So if you are concerned about your friend and want to improve them, how far do you go, what are the boundaries?

 

[Newbie2]

So often there are topics on this site that involve the actions of others, or our actions and sin. Sin seems to be a really common topic. The topic is “Moral Theology”; why sin is such a big part of Moral Theology escapes me.

Isn’t morality about doing what is right? Isn’t Theology about God? I guess “Moral Theology” is doing what God thinks is right. But we don’t know what God thinks. If you think you do, you have a big problem, because you don’t. Knowing the Bible and all the teachings of the Church does not mean you know what God thinks. So, the idea of Moral Theology being about what God thinks doesn’t make sense, it isn’t useful to me.

How about the idea that “Moral Theology” is doing what I think is right within my relationship with God? It becomes not what God thinks, but what I think, given all my experiences and education. At least I know what I think.

This way of looking at it also works with the idea that God gave us free will. He wants us to choose. He made us that way. It must be right. I think God wants us to choose to do what is right, given the tools He gave us to make the decision.

I think we have a tendency to go overboard with rules. I think about the Gospels and how Jesus pretty much associated with sinners, or people that I would not be all that comfortable with. What guts He had, to walk up to and talk with the people He associated with. If all Jesus thought about was all the rules these people were breaking how would He have ever been able to help them, or associate with them?

Ok, the Church has been more like Jesus. It has forgiven and forgot, and got in a lot of trouble. I think the way to go now is forgive, but don’t forget. Don’t transfer a troubled priest, essentially get rid of him. But forgive him. I really don’t have a problem with that. I think the moral thing is to do the responsible thing, to make it so others cannot be hurt.

In my life I was raised like the old Church, forgive and forget. Trust people you know. Wow, what pain that has brought me. That is stupid. Can anybody relate to that?

So, if we get away from the idea of associating with bad people because they are bad, where does that leave us? Are we following the teachings and example of Jesus? Are we supposed to?

You know, if we go around telling everybody about all the sins they commit we will solve that problem because nobody will associate with us.

Somehow I think I am responsible for me and me alone. If I am concerned about others then the results of my activities concerning them need to be right with God as I see it. So if you are concerned about your friend and want to improve them, how far do you go, what are the boundaries?

Au contrare! God has revealed to us what he thinks…not ***everything ***he thinks, of course, but what he thinks is good for us in terms of our behavior…and he’s given us the Church to help us figure out what is best for us.

To say that we don’t know anything about God is like burying one’s head in the sand. Kinda like “Well, we can’t know him completely, so we don’t know anything about him.”

Yourself, certainly, but it’s pretty clear in Scripture that we do not live in a moral vacuum and are to some extent responsible for others.

“How far do you go?” is an excellent question. That’s why there is an entire theological discipline devoted to Moral theology.

 

[tm30]

Somehow I think I am responsible for me and me alone. If I am concerned about others then the results of my activities concerning them need to be right with God as I see it. So if you are concerned about your friend and want to improve them, how far do you go, what are the boundaries?

This is a position famously discussed in Genesis:

Genesis 4

9 And the Lord said to Cain: Where is thy brother Abel? And he answered, I know not: am I my brother’s keeper?

That said, I agree there’s a fine line, at times, depending on who the other person is, the circumstances, etc.

Generally speaking, we are responsible for those around us because we are all part of the same body of Christ. If we remain only concerned with the functioning of our own personal part of the body, we risk failure by virtue of other parts failing. We can’t be totally indifferent, and the Church even calls the correction of sinners a great Spiritual Work of Mercy.

That doesn’t mean standing on the corner with a bullhorn, but it does mean that, with those closest to us, we cannot simply turn a blind eye to evil they may commit. It sometimes involves a tremendous risk of alienation and estrangement, but at the end of the day, we are obliged to act.

New Advent lists some key criterion, in which a case of NOT correcting your brother may result in your own mortal sin:

newadvent.org/cathen/04394a.htm

the delinquency to be corrected or prevented is a grievous one;
there is no good reason to believe that the sinner will adequately provide for himself;
there is a well-founded expectation that the admonition will be heeded;
there is no one else just as well fitted for this work of Christian charity and likely to undertake it;
there is no special trouble or disadvantage accruing to the reformer as a result of his zeal.

In other words, if someone is committing a grave sin, and it is not being committed in invincible ignorance (they simply don’t know any better), and there’s no reason to believe that anyone else of any greater standing will have opportunity to provide fraternal correction, it’s up to you to speak up and make that person aware of the danger they are placing their soul in.