The breviary

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Vince85

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Does anyone know where to buy a pre vatican 2 breviary ? I use the christian prayer and would like to get a pre vatican 2 breviary or liturgy of the hours. Whats really the difference ? Someone told me that the christian prayer beviary the i have was heavily modified with vatican 2 ? This is the second time i have heard this, can anyone confirm that for me ?
 
(Related but unrelated question; any recommendations for an E-Breviary for Android?)
 
If you have the cash and are willing to wait a little while longer, Baronius Press will hopefully be releasing the 1962 Breviary around Advent time (more likely, Christmas in my opinion). I believe Angelus Press may have a 1962 Breviary as well, and a few others out there. I cannot be sure though.

Have you considered the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary?
 
Vince85 said:
Does anyone know where to buy a pre vatican 2 breviary ? I use the christian prayer and would like to get a pre vatican 2 breviary or liturgy of the hours. Whats really the difference ? Someone told me that the christian prayer beviary the i have was heavily modified with vatican 2 ? This is the second time i have heard this, can anyone confirm that for me ?
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The main differences - and I have to be brief or the post will be too long! - are:

The Psalter - a 1-week cycle instead of a 3-week cycle.

Matins: always recited first, Psalm 94 (only, no option of using alternative psalms), hymn, then either one “Nocturn” of 9 psalms + 3 readings, each with their own responsory. Or, on major feasts, 3 Nocturns, each Nocturn having 3 psalms followed by 3 readings and 3 responsories.

Lauds - 4 psalms + 1 OT canticle, the Psalmody is either "Scheme 1 or “Scheme 2” with scheme 2 used on penitential days and always having Psalm 50/51 as the 1st psalm. The Hymn is after the Psalms, not before.

Prime - deleted in the modern LOTH, this has 3 psalms plus various prayers.

Terce, Sext and None - all three to be recited.

Vespers - 5 psalms, no NT canticle, as with Lauds, the Hymn is after the Psalms.

Compline - Starts with Little Chapter, then the Confiteor (the longer pre-VII version as used at the EF Mass), then psalms, Little Chapter, Nunc dimittis, concluding prayer and Antiphon of the BVM.

Hope this helps.
 
universalis do a good app for iphone / ipad etc.
for Android you download their p.c. app and use it to produce e-books for a specific period which you then upload onto your android device & view in Kindle or another e-reader.
A permanent subscription is very inexpensive. There’s a 1 month free trial.
 
Vince85 said:
Does anyone know where to buy a pre vatican 2 breviary ? I use the christian prayer and would like to get a pre vatican 2 breviary or liturgy of the hours. Whats really the difference ? Someone told me that the christian prayer beviary the i have was heavily modified with vatican 2 ? This is the second time i have heard this, can anyone confirm that for me ?
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angeluspress.org/oscatalog/item/8347/linking.php (latin only)

breviariumromanum.com/home_en.html (latin only)

baroniuspress.com/forthcoming_titles.php?wid=12 (latin/english)
 
codefro said:
Why is Vatican II breviary considered lesser?
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Mostly because the psalter is on a 4 week cycle instead of only 1 week.

Also prime was eliminated, the Office of Readings replaced vigils, compline has a variable psalmody, the imprecatory psalms and verses were eliminated and some folks think it was designed by a freemason… 😃

Well the latter is thrown in for the benefit if conspiracy theorists 😃

Some also say it wasn’t designed for chanting.

However:
  1. the Office of readings can optionally be used as Vigils
  2. the other mid-day offices can optionally be recited
  3. the traditional compline psalmody (ps 4, 90, 133) can optionally be used
  4. chant books now exist to chant it in Latin, French and English
  5. it is far more accessible to layfolk and busy diocesan clergy
Which pretty much only leaves the 4-week psalter, the imprecatory psalms and the loss of prime as serious objections.
 
I try to pray at least Lauds, Vespers and Compline every day and use the one volume Daily Prayer from the Divine Office in English.

I find the hours very managable and like to four week psalter and certainly don’t miss the curses from some of the psalms.

I don’t understand Latin and so couldn’t make use of the Pre Vatican II breviary; I would just be parroting the words.
 
codefro said:
Why is Vatican II breviary considered lesser?
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Because some people consider everything post Vatican II to be lesser.

you need to be aware of what Pope Paul IV wrote immediately before the publication of the current previary in 1970: in Laudis Canticum
We hereby decree that this new book for the Liturgy of the Hours may be put into use as soon as it is published. Meanwhile, the conferences of bishops are to see to the preparation of editions of this liturgical work in the vernacular and, after approval, that is, confirmation, of these editions by the Apostolic See, are to fix the date when the vernacular editions may or must be used, either in whole or in part. Beginning on the effective date for use of these versions in vernacular celebrations, only the revised form of the Liturgy of the Hours is to be followed, even by those who continue to use Latin. For those however who, because of advanced age or for special reasons, experience serious difficulties in observing this new Order, it is lawful to continue to use the former Roman Breviary, in whole or in part, with the consent of their Ordinary, but only when reciting the Office alone.
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(my emphasis)

Therefore if you use the older breviaries you are not praying the Liturgy of the Hours. (unless you have specific permission from your bishop ) you are using an old prayer book for personal prayers - not praying the Prayer of the Church.

If you are bound by Rule or Cannon Law to pray the LOTH you may not use an earlier breviary without the permission of your bishop.

I am not aware of more recent Popes reversing this ruling. (though our current Pope is reinstating a lot of traditional practices, either to eliminate missunderstandings of V.C. II or to build bridges with traditionalist groups. so it is possible I have missed something)
 
anruari said:
Because some people consider everything post Vatican II to be lesser.

you need to be aware of what Pope Paul IV wrote immediately before the publication of the current previary in 1970: in Laudis Canticum

(my emphasis)

Therefore if you use the older breviaries you are not praying the Liturgy of the Hours. (unless you have specific permission from your bishop ) you are using an old prayer book for personal prayers - not praying the Prayer of the Church.

If you are bound by Rule or Cannon Law to pray the LOTH you may not use an earlier breviary without the permission of your bishop.

I am not aware of more recent Popes reversing this ruling. (though our current Pope is reinstating a lot of traditional practices, either to eliminate missunderstandings of V.C. II or to build bridges with traditionalist groups. so it is possible I have missed something)
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It’s not absolute. The Benedictines have 4 approved breviaries they can use for the LOTH, in addition to the current 4-week LOTH but on the Benedictine calendar, and the Cistercians also have their own schemas.

The oldest of those 4 is the original version proposed by St. Benedict himself in his Rule 1500 years ago. You can licitly use the Benedictine breviaries today, at least if you are affiliated to them somehow (as I am, an oblate), and you can say them in the vernacular. Also if you pray the LOTH in a Benedictine monastery, and they use a Benedictine breviary (e.g. when you are visiting or on retreat there), you fulfill your obligation (if you are obligated) by using their breviary while there, and if you are not obligated, you are fully participating in the LOTH by praying with the monks using their breviary.
 
OraLabora said:
It’s not absolute. The Benedictines have 4 approved breviaries they can use for the LOTH, in addition to the current 4-week LOTH but on the Benedictine calendar, and the Cistercians also have their own schemas.

The oldest of those 4 is the original version proposed by St. Benedict himself in his Rule 1500 years ago. You can licitly use the Benedictine breviaries today, at least if you are affiliated to them somehow (as I am, an oblate), and you can say them in the vernacular. Also if you pray the LOTH in a Benedictine monastery, and they use a Benedictine breviary (e.g. when you are visiting or on retreat there), you fulfill your obligation (if you are obligated) by using their breviary while there, and if you are not obligated, you are fully participating in the LOTH by praying with the monks using their breviary.
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But how much of that is due to their unique place as Religious? I’m thinking anruari’s post is more to do with those in a secular state.
 
Melchior said:
But how much of that is due to their unique place as Religious? I’m thinking anruari’s post is more to do with those in a secular state.
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Yes of course it is due to the fact that they were allowed to continue their traditions. Many don’t know though that the original Benedictine breviary has been adapted to the post-Vatican II era; those adaptations include:

-Using the same OT canticle at Lauds as the 4-week LOTH
-The permission to abolish Prime and distribute its psalms either through Vigils (putting Vigils on a 2-week cycle) or through the Minor Hours;
-The option to place the hymn as for the current LOTH (before the psalmody for Lauds and Vespers), with the option to continue placing the hymn after the responsory for Lauds and Vespers;
-The same liturgical year reforms as for the Roman Rite (Advent, Christmastide, OT, Lent, Eastertide, OT);
-The option to use the same intercessions (the traditional Benedictine Office does not use intercessions, but instead the Kyrie Eleison followed by the Our Father);
-The same collects for all hours, feasts, liturgical times;
-The option to eliminate imprecatory psalms and verses;
-The option to use the vernacular using approved translations.

If you regularly pray with Benedictines, even if not an oblate (e.g. you live close to a monastery and attend Offices there frequently) it would make sense to use their breviary to avoid breaking up your LOTH and missing psalms. You would be doing so licitly, IMHO.

So IMHO it’s relevant to know that this option is out there. The Benedictines are cloistered, but not closed so laypeople can and do attend their Offices.
 
OraLabora said:
Yes of course it is due to the fact that they were allowed to continue their traditions. Many don’t know though that the original Benedictine breviary has been adapted to the post-Vatican II era; those adaptations include:

-Using the same OT canticle at Lauds as the 4-week LOTH
-The permission to abolish Prime and distribute its psalms either through Vigils (putting Vigils on a 2-week cycle) or through the Minor Hours;
-The option to place the hymn as for the current LOTH (before the psalmody for Lauds and Vespers), with the option to continue placing the hymn after the responsory for Lauds and Vespers;
-The same liturgical year reforms as for the Roman Rite (Advent, Christmastide, OT, Lent, Eastertide, OT);
-The option to use the same intercessions (the traditional Benedictine Office does not use intercessions, but instead the Kyrie Eleison followed by the Our Father);
-The same collects for all hours, feasts, liturgical times;
-The option to eliminate imprecatory psalms and verses;
-The option to use the vernacular using approved translations.

If you regularly pray with Benedictines, even if not an oblate (e.g. you live close to a monastery and attend Offices there frequently) it would make sensee to use their breviary to avoid breaking up your LOTH and missing psalms. You would be doing so licitly, IMHO.

So IMHO it’s relevant to know that this option is out there. The Benedictines are cloistered, but not closed so laypeople can and do attend their Offices.
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I see, so if a layman hits up a Benedictine place they can use their Breviary. Do the Benedictines have a lay order, and if so are they permitted to use their breviary?
 
Melchior said:
I see, so if a layman hits up a Benedictine place they can use their Breviary. Do the Benedictines have a lay order, and if so are they permitted to use their breviary?
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Yes they have secular oblates, of which I am one. It is not a “third order” per se, as the oblates are attached to a specific monastery, and not the order in general. This follows the pattern of Benedictines in general where there is a significant amount of independence between individual monasteries, the congregation they belong to and the order. Benedictines are first and foremost attached to an abbey or priory, and secondarily to an order.

We are allowed to use the same breviary as the community we are attached to, in order to form a more perfect prayer union with our brothers or sisters in the cloister, or some variation thereof. For example I use the same breviary as my community; it is Benedictine schema B which is on a 1-week psalter. That schema also has various options within it. For example I use a licit option to divide Vigils over two weeks. We are allowed to pray the Office as our condition permits, and that could mean for me using a 2-week cycle or even using the 4-week LOTH but with the Benedictine calendar.

I could also use the original schema if I wanted to; I have a deep affection for our mother abbey in France (St-Wandrille) and they use it. I have used it but it is quite challenging for a layperson: reciting 250+ psalms a week (there are numerous repetitions, such as psalms 3, 66 and 50 every day, same gradual psalms for the minor hours Tues-Sat., same psalms for Compline every night), Vigils of two nocturnes of 6 psalms each plus two long readings and a third nocturne on Sundays and feasts, etc. That schema is what you hear of often being called the “Monastic Diurnal” around here (minus vigils, and in pre-Vatican II form).

But I’m comfortable with our schema. It allows me to pray in union with my community, it’s manageable (Vigils if done on a 1 week cycle consists of two nocturnes of 3 psalms each and a third nocturne of 3 OT canticles on Sundays and feasts), and I have all the books needed to chant it in Latin, in Gregorian notation 😃

(I also have the books needed to chant the 4-week LOTH in Latin Gregorian notation too, and I have used that schema when I am particularly busy or am traveling).
 
Interesting! I’ll have to file that way for future reference. Most people I talk to are surprised when I say Benedictines place an emphasis on community, but with how you described it it makes perfect sense.

Thank you for sharing, I can’t get enough of learning what all the different orders/spiritualities do.
 
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