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jkarp
Guest
This is a bit off topic but, is your wife the daughter of a Catholic bishop? or does Church of Christ have bishops as well?
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jkarp
Guest
Your argument is incorrect. Benedictine College (recommended by the guide) offers a great books program and has a faculty of some of today’s most prominent theologians. For example, when I attended, I had the priviledge to study under Ted (Edward) Sri. Dr. Sri has appeared on EWTN shows such as Life on the Rock as well as being a well respected author and good friend of Scott Hahn.
Benedictine, though small (enrollment when I attended was only around 900 students and is now just nearing 1300) has an incredible list of achievements. For example, Benedictine’s chamber choir performs at the Vatican and other churches in Rome every other year and Benedictine is the alma mater of Nobel Peace Laureate Wangari Maathi.
It is silly to make generalizations when you don’t have information with which to back them.
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Domer1997
Guest
JKarp,
Your law abiding citizen analogy is like comparing apples to oranges. Did you ever read Chaucer? It’s a bit racey too. But, books should never be banned from any university. …performances of entertainment I can definitely see (i.e. performances of the Monologues), but not books to discuss intellectual conversations (or in this case the reading of a script…and a bad one at that by the way!) Seeing the “other” side helps us think about our own Catholic beliefs and strengthens our Catholicism. It certainly doesn’t weaken it.
Apparently I must be correct since the Vatican no longer has a “banned books list”. The Holy See must also agree with this reasoning.
God Bless.
Your law abiding citizen analogy is like comparing apples to oranges. Did you ever read Chaucer? It’s a bit racey too. But, books should never be banned from any university. …performances of entertainment I can definitely see (i.e. performances of the Monologues), but not books to discuss intellectual conversations (or in this case the reading of a script…and a bad one at that by the way!) Seeing the “other” side helps us think about our own Catholic beliefs and strengthens our Catholicism. It certainly doesn’t weaken it.
Apparently I must be correct since the Vatican no longer has a “banned books list”. The Holy See must also agree with this reasoning.
God Bless.
J
jkarp
Guest
OK, then it is like saying you can’t know that drinking poison is bad without actually trying some poison for yourself. If you feed your mind garbage . . .
S
sanctamaria17
Guest
You know, I don’t agree with banning books either. If you’re strong in your faith, a book isn’t going to shake it. I have to read things I don’t agree with for school as well and it helps me understand why I don’t agree with certain things. I’ve ready many books, from the Bible, to C.S. Lewis, to Dan Brown, to Harlequin romance novels, to Scott Hahn, to Dante, to Heinlein, etc. You know, Shakespeare had pretty racy things to say as well (Taming of the Shrew, anyone?). As for the Vagina Monologues, I will read them, simply to understand what I’m up against. But I’m not going to ban a book from my library just because someone thinks it might be sinful. Instead, it strengthens my faith and firms me in my own beliefs.
And I would never go to a school that wasn’t accredited. I’m premed and will be facing a lot of competition when applying to medical school. I need the science classes an accredited university has to offer. As for not being in a Catholic school, my school is very good, with a high quality education and an international focus (I see myself going into international health care), as well as a focus on service (a lot of people go into the Peace Corps after graduation, many of us volunteer all over the city, etc.). The Catholics who are on campus are Catholic because they want to be and we have an awesome community (orthodox Dominican priest, women’s Steubenville-style household, mission trips to the Third World, pilgrimages, prolife activism and service, retreats, many students involved in ministries etc.). We’re even stronger in our faith because there’s not many of us and most of us are far from home. And seeds are being planted. Two of my teammates, both non-Catholic Christians, came to Mass one night when I was singing and one of them now wants to play flute at Mass (it is allowed, she just can’t receive Holy Communion). A nominally Jewish friend of mine went to Mass for an assignment (cross-cultural studies) and said he felt really good afterwards, that he liked it!
A friend of mine had thought of transferring to a Catholic college and I had thought of going to one. However, we both realized that we were called to our university, not only for academics, but to give witness to our faith. We get converts and people coming back to their faith. If all of us Catholics left, who would be left?
And I would never go to a school that wasn’t accredited. I’m premed and will be facing a lot of competition when applying to medical school. I need the science classes an accredited university has to offer. As for not being in a Catholic school, my school is very good, with a high quality education and an international focus (I see myself going into international health care), as well as a focus on service (a lot of people go into the Peace Corps after graduation, many of us volunteer all over the city, etc.). The Catholics who are on campus are Catholic because they want to be and we have an awesome community (orthodox Dominican priest, women’s Steubenville-style household, mission trips to the Third World, pilgrimages, prolife activism and service, retreats, many students involved in ministries etc.). We’re even stronger in our faith because there’s not many of us and most of us are far from home. And seeds are being planted. Two of my teammates, both non-Catholic Christians, came to Mass one night when I was singing and one of them now wants to play flute at Mass (it is allowed, she just can’t receive Holy Communion). A nominally Jewish friend of mine went to Mass for an assignment (cross-cultural studies) and said he felt really good afterwards, that he liked it!
A friend of mine had thought of transferring to a Catholic college and I had thought of going to one. However, we both realized that we were called to our university, not only for academics, but to give witness to our faith. We get converts and people coming back to their faith. If all of us Catholics left, who would be left?
D
dixieagle
Guest
I’m not a “domer”, but rather a B.C. Eagle, and find your mindset that grads of ND, or other “expensive” colleges don’t give generously and routinely lose their faith as highly insulting, not to mention untrue.Domer,
I’ve overstated a bit my feelings, but experience is that nothing is new under the sun. Giving…hmmn…that reminds me of a scripture I once read…okay read a whol lot…Luke 21:1-4
1 When he looked up he saw some wealthy people putting their offerings into the treasury 2 and he noticed a poor widow putting in two small coins. 3 He said, “I tell you truly, this poor widow put in more than all the rest; 4 for those others have all made offerings from their surplus wealth, but she, from her poverty, has offered her whole livelihood.”
This sums up my opinion. Just because we justify saying running a college is expensive…that just means you’re overpaying egotistic B----rds. It’s sad that Christians in general dont’ recognize this…it’s the sign of the times so to speak…materialism…we are a materialistic society. I’m sure there are many good people that go to ND. But I had to bring the reality check here. Remember Bruce Almighty? The End is near guy? That’s what I’m basically doing…thorn in your side… We agree to disagree… But I know I’m right on this one.
Did I tell you I’m as stubborn as a Drill Sergeant? Well, I was an NCO…nearly killed by ROTC officers. Very lucky to be alive and actually walking. Texas Aggie turns out some pretty good officers… Probably prepare you a bit better for it all too. Notre Dame …never met an officer from there. I’d personally prefer to go to Catholic University over ND…However the rich history of ND is also very cool. I’d have a difficult time justifying spending so much money to send my children to school there know they’d end up falling away from the church…I’d rather make sure they stay Cahtolic and send them to a quiet place that would help them grow spiritually deep in the way God wants us…not the ways of the world.
You are right we must disagree on this point. I have an entire family that would side with you. But I never went there way…I’m the only orthodox Cahtolic in my family… The rest play both sides of the fense. Some of them also went to prestigious universities, private and public. I pray for them everyday…as I do the many that waste so much time trying to prove they’re good enough for the world and give just a little of themselves to Christ. Not enough…but if it’s all you have…then it’s all you have. We must seek peace however we interpret our fate. I wish you well…or in the words of Dr. Phil…“good luck with that”.
Lighting a candle for you tonight. Hoping to reach the deep corners of your heart to give to the point of hurting… All of you ND or other Ivy Leaguers. Rich Atchly, a church of Christ preacher, one said in one of his sermons…'take what you need and give the rest back"…not bad for a Protestant.
The first example of ND grads that came to my mind was the local doctor’s family (self-made, from a very ordinary background) who is the best illustration of a truly pro-life, Catholic family that I know; seven kids, all of them either already ND grads, students, or en route there. The oldest two are ACE program teachers - cream of the crop, teaching in inner city situations in Catholic high schools. All of the kids have taken leadership roles in the pro-life group and retreats at their local Catholic H.S. here.
Two other families with ND ties come to mind, as well; again, self-made, hard-working families who have enjoyed some financial success and share it generously with others. Their ND-grad children are pursuing M.D.s, Ph.D.s, and advanced theology degrees, all of them outstanding examples of Catholic young people.
There are a number of BC grads here in town (deep south) as well. While it is a more liberal (and I don’t necessarily regard “liberal” in the political sense as a bad word) than it was when I went, the grads I know are active Catholics who value the faith and share generously their worldly goods.
Dh and I are both BC grads from several decades back; our older daughter was accepted, but chose a large midwest state school which was a great choice for her (excellent Catholic student center where she met her husband, too.) Our parents were definitely working class folks who sacrificed to send us to BC (refusing to fill out financial aid applications because they were very private about finances) because they realized the value it offered.
I sense a chip on your shoulder and a “holier than thou” attitude that is in no way Christian. Is there, perhaps, a little envy going on there?
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jkarp
Guest
I never said to ban books, nor do I think book banning is good. However, it is entirely another thing to go to the opposite extreme and perpetuate widespread availability of books that are regarded as inappropriate.
You are absolutely correct. However, the reality is that the majority of 17-20 year old Catholics are not strong in their faith and are at a very impressionable juncture in their lives.
P
pecoemla
Guest
It has been interesting to read through this topic.
I have a daughter preparing to attend college in the fall of '08. It has been a very interesting process.
My family has a long, long association with ND. My father attended and graduated from ND in the days of Rockne! My brother attended, graduated and lost his faith at ND (I’m not necessarily blaming ND, but I do know the wacky, modernist, ‘spirit of Vat II’, dissent filled theology he picked up there didn’t help - but he definitely shares the blame). I have many close friends who went to ND and children of quite a few more who are attending or have graduated. Now, I am only speaking from my own experience, so don’t get all bent out of shape. It seems that most of those I know barely practice their faith or practice a brand of Catholicism that is certainly NOT what I would consider orthodox. So based upon my experience, and what I have read, I would not send my children there. What other yardstick should I use?
I realize that it is a fine school academically, and I believe from what I read that things Catholic are actually getting better. But I also believe that a lot of the academic reputations of schools are overrated and not nearly so important in the real world. I much prefer a school that is unabashedly Catholic and is solidly orthodox AND does not kowtow or cater to the dissenters, modernists, and cafeteria catholics (usually under the false guise of “academic freedom” - I’ve detected some of this in this discussion). I was profoundly disappointed (more like disgusted) with ND’s response and that of their president to the whole Vagina Monologues issue. And I believe that there has been a lot of rationalizing to try to justify and/or excuse the response to this issue, the queer festival issue, the tolerance of dissent, the attitude towards the bishop, etc.
I think that for a solid Catholic education AND a solid Catholic culture and spirituality there are better places than ND.
I have a daughter preparing to attend college in the fall of '08. It has been a very interesting process.
My family has a long, long association with ND. My father attended and graduated from ND in the days of Rockne! My brother attended, graduated and lost his faith at ND (I’m not necessarily blaming ND, but I do know the wacky, modernist, ‘spirit of Vat II’, dissent filled theology he picked up there didn’t help - but he definitely shares the blame). I have many close friends who went to ND and children of quite a few more who are attending or have graduated. Now, I am only speaking from my own experience, so don’t get all bent out of shape. It seems that most of those I know barely practice their faith or practice a brand of Catholicism that is certainly NOT what I would consider orthodox. So based upon my experience, and what I have read, I would not send my children there. What other yardstick should I use?
I realize that it is a fine school academically, and I believe from what I read that things Catholic are actually getting better. But I also believe that a lot of the academic reputations of schools are overrated and not nearly so important in the real world. I much prefer a school that is unabashedly Catholic and is solidly orthodox AND does not kowtow or cater to the dissenters, modernists, and cafeteria catholics (usually under the false guise of “academic freedom” - I’ve detected some of this in this discussion). I was profoundly disappointed (more like disgusted) with ND’s response and that of their president to the whole Vagina Monologues issue. And I believe that there has been a lot of rationalizing to try to justify and/or excuse the response to this issue, the queer festival issue, the tolerance of dissent, the attitude towards the bishop, etc.
I think that for a solid Catholic education AND a solid Catholic culture and spirituality there are better places than ND.
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