The Case Against Transubstantiation

[MelanieAnne]

**That is a very interesting analogy by Fr. Caropi, how it is Jesus Christ that consumes us into his body as one.

When we consume the transubstantiated bread and wine of the body,blood,soul and divinityof our dear Lord Jesus Christ their is a lot of mystical spiritual reality that takes place out side of time and the material world.

For one to be priveldged to recieve the sacrificial body, blood of Jesus Christ, one has to die and be raised in Jesus Christ (baptised) made a new creation in Jesus Christ… In other words one has to sacrifice his life (take up his cross and follow Jesus) as Jesus sacrificed his life for us. So as in Holy Communion we enter into the day that the Lord has made, Where we come to him and give our body to Jesus as he gives us his body,blood, soul and divinity. This is the consumation of the Marriage (supper of the Lamb See Rev.19) covenant of God and his people where the two are now made one, and perfect because God is perfect.

How else can man be made perfect unless he is in the body of Jesus Christ? like Fr. Caropi explains it is Jesus Christ who truly consumes his people, we consume the bread and wine that is transubstantiated into the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus, mystically the Catholic church the bride of Jesus Christ whom he sacrificed his life for, say’s I Love you to Jesus and recieves her husband (Ba’al) by giving Jesus our body to into his inorder to recieve eternal life with him. That is what God has created man for, to be eteranlly in full communion with him through his body and blood, soul and divinity, what husband does not want to give all that is his to his virgin bride. Jesus states "eat this bread my body, drink this cup my blood in the new and everlasting covenant, that will be shed for you, Jesus tells his bride to “DO THIS”… and proclaim my love (sacrificial death) for you until he returns.

Jesus never tires of telling his bride “I love you” and his bride never forgets he is returning and proclaims her love back by obeying her husbands command, to consumate the marriage bond by giving ones life for the other in the (Eucharist) body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ.

I hope I wasnt to long winded Melanie Ann, but when you mentioned Fr. Caropi, and his comment, it brought much enlightenment, thought I share it here. God bless and peace be with you.

How wonderful it is to be One with God and his people in one body, one baptism In One Lord, in the one Holy Apostolic Catholic church that never changes.**

Gabriel, to me, the idea that Jesus assimilates us into Him at the Eucharist makes perfect sense. We are the church founded by Jesus. The church is not a building or an institution it is a people. We are the church. He is the head, we are the body. The church and Jesus are one. This is the gift He has given to all of us. We are all blessed to receive this gift.

Mother Angelica once put it another way, and perhaps it is simpler and less philosophical. She was responding to the criticism made by some that Catholics don’t read the Bible enough, don’t talk about Jesus enough, etc. (all of which is demonstrably not true, but that’s another subject.) Mother Angelica’s response was that unlike other churches that just talk about Jesus in our church we actually commune with Him. Yes, we do!

I don’t know why some people insist on making this so hard. “This is my Body” and “This is my Blood” ~ Jesus said it, His words were simple and plain, easy to understand. If you trust Jesus, then the rest is easy. If you don’t trust Him, then it’s obviously very hard to believe. In that case, your problem is not with Real Presence or the mechanism of Transubstantiation. It’s with Trusting in the Word of God. Those that don’t trust in Jesus need to start there.

 

[ufamtobie]

Hey there Zerinus.

Wow you are totaly against Transubstantiation!

Ok! Lets look at it your way, lets say you are right, and we Catholics are wrong about Transubstantiation, and no way is it truely the presence of Our Lord in this Holy Eucharist.

What will our Lord tell us Catholics when we are in front of him in Heaven at “Judgement” will he condemn all Catholics for taking his word literally Re: (John 6 verse 53-58) What would he say to us Catholics for believing that he is able to do all things, for believing that nothing is impossible for our Lord Jesus Christ and that he could become totally “body and soul” present in the Holy Eucharist at the consecration during Mass, again, will our Lord condemn us Catholics for believing that he can do all things, for believing in his words literally.

Now lets say Transubstantiation is “TRUTH” and you Zerinus, and all who believe against Transubstantiation Are Wrong! WOW!

What will our Lord tell You Zirinus, and for those who believe what you believe about “The Case Again Transubstantiation”. In Heaven at Judgement. Will our Lord Condemn you all for not taking his word literally. Well in scripture said he would condemn, read scripture below:

(John 6 verse 53-58)* 'I TELL YOU MOST SOLEMNLY, IF YOU DO NOT EAT THE FLESH OF THE SON OF MAN AND DRINK HIS BLOOD YOU WILL NOT HAVE LIFE IN YOU. *

Zerinus, why would Jesus be so, so MOST SOLEMNLY about his FLESH and BLOOD if this was only symbolic? answer is it is not symbolic it is TRUTH

Zerinus, as you know (John ch.6 verse 60-61) Are you and those who believe like you about the case against TRANSUBSTATIATION resemble thoses so called followers of Jesus who left him? THEY SAID:

(John ch.6 verse 60-61)* ‘THIS IS INTOLERABLE LANGUAGE. HOW CAN ANYONE ACCEPT IT?’ *

Zerinus, these so called follwers of Jesus, thought like you thought about Transubstatiation. These so called follwers** KNEW** EXACTLY what our Lord meant and they said to themselves how can we eat his flesh and drink his blood, this is intolerable language, and so they left.

immediately Jesus went on to say:

(John ch. 6 verse 61-62) JESUS WAS AWARE THAT HIS FOLLOWERS WERE COMPLAINING “ABOUT IT” AND SAID,
'DOES THIS “UPSET YOU”? WHAT IF YOU SEE THE SON OF MAN ASCEND TO WERE HE WAS BEFORE?

(John ch.6 verse 55-66) AFTER THIS MANY OF HIS DISCIPLES LEFT HIM AND STOP GOING WITH HIM.

Zerinus, did Our Lord run to those followers who left him and tell them don’t leave me, please come back, what I meant was only symbolic. I did not truely mean to eat my flesh and drink my blood, I don’t have that kind of POWER to do that. I am only God, I can only raise the dead, heal the lame, bring sight to the blind, make the deaf hear, make the lepper clean again, I created life, I created the universe, I can become a Man and God at the same time… Again to eat my flesh and drink my blood now that is INTOLERABLE LANGUAGE. HOW CAN ANYONE ACCEPT IT?

NO! Our Lord did not call them back, for all things are POSSIBLE such as"TRANSUBSTATIATION" with Our Lord. What Our Lord did was saw them leave him, like he has seen you leave him cause you say Zerinus 'THIS IS INTOLERABLE LANGUAGE. HOW CAN ANYONE ACCEPT IT?

(In John ch.6 verse 66-70)* 'WHAT ABOUT YOU, DO YOU WANT TO GO AWAY TOO? SIMON PETER ANSWERED, 'LORD WHO SHALL WE GO TO? YOU HAVE THE MESSAGE OF ETERNAL LIFE, AND WE BELIEVE WE KNOW YOU ARE THE HOLY ONE OF GOD*

Zerinus, the truth is God has not given you the GRACE to believe in transubstantiation look at…

(John ch.6 verse 65)HE WENT ON, ‘THIS IS WHY I TOLD YOU THAT NO ONE COULD COME TO ME UNLESS THE FATHER ALLOWS HIM’. AFTER THIS MANY OF HIS DISCIPLES LEFT HIM AND STOPPED GOING WITH HIM.

UFAMTOBIE

 

[MelanieAnne]

Ufamtobie,

You are so right!

I’ve said this before, perhaps in this thread, perhaps elsewhere, but compared to creating the universe & raising the dead, transubstantiation seems relatively like child’s play!

If someone cannot believe that Jesus is truly present, body and blood, just as He said, in the Eucharist, then perhaps they truly do not believe in the other miracles either?

 

[ufamtobie]

Hi there Melanie Anne,

Thank you for responding. We must thank the FATHER for the GRACE to allow us to come to JESUS in the Most Holy Eucahrist

(John ch6 verse65) He went on, 'This is why I told you that no one could come to me unless the FATHER allows him.

We Catholics are blessed, we know that our Lord is everywhere Spiritually, where ever we are we can talk to him spiritually at home at work etc… but come Sunday Mass or actually as we know daily at Mass, or visiting the Tabernacle we can go to him who is physically present Flesh and Blood in the Most Blessed Eucharist. Jesus did say he would be with us until the end of time.
to him who always keeps his promises “WE LOVE YOU JESUS”

Melanie, it is not I who is right, I know you know this, but for others who read this, it is Jesus Christ Catholic Church who is RIGHT we are only followers who try to defend it when called upon with love.

Your brother in Christ
Umfamtobie

 

[MelanieAnne]

Hi there Melanie Anne,

Thank you for responding. We must thank the FATHER for the GRACE to allow us to come to JESUS in the Most Holy Eucahrist

(John ch6 verse65) He went on, 'This is why I told you that no one could come to me unless the FATHER allows him.

We Catholics are blessed, we know that our Lord is everywhere Spiritually, where ever we are we can talk to him spiritually at home at work etc… but come Sunday Mass or actually as we know daily at Mass, or visiting the Tabernacle we can go to him who is physically present Flesh and Blood in the Most Blessed Eucharist. Jesus did say he would be with us until the end of time.
to him who always keeps his promises “WE LOVE YOU JESUS”

Melanie, it is not I who is right, I know you know this, but for others who read this, it is Jesus Christ Catholic Church who is RIGHT we are only followers who try to defend it when called upon with love.

Your brother in Christ
Umfamtobie

Hi Umfamtobie,

You are so right! (forgive me for saying so! I don’t mean to argue!)

And I would add, not only do we say “WE LOVE YOU JESUS” but we also say “WE TRUST YOU JESUS”. When we trust in Jesus, and we love Him, everything else falls into place. When we don’t trust in Jesus, when we don’t truly love Him, confusion begins.

This is why Real Presence is so easy. If you believe Jesus told the Truth, it’s easy. If you don’t, it’s hard. Start with trusting Jesus.

I am also so grateful for the opportunity for Daily Mass. This is seldom offered in other faiths of any kind. I find it curious that some people complain about “organized religion” because of the “burden” of having to go to church once a week! If I go only once a week I start to miss Jesus so much it hurts! THANK GOD for Daily Mass! (And the rosary right before! at least at my parish!)

 

[Ronald_E]

Hi Umfamtobie,

You are so right! (forgive me for saying so! I don’t mean to argue!)

And I would add, not only do we say “WE LOVE YOU JESUS” but we also say “WE TRUST YOU JESUS”. When we trust in Jesus, and we love Him, everything else falls into place. When we don’t trust in Jesus, when we don’t truly love Him, confusion begins.

This is why Real Presence is so easy. If you believe Jesus told the Truth, it’s easy. If you don’t, it’s hard. Start with trusting Jesus.

I am also so grateful for the opportunity for Daily Mass. This is seldom offered in other faiths of any kind. I find it curious that some people complain about “organized religion” because of the “burden” of having to go to church once a week! If I go only once a week I start to miss Jesus so much it hurts! THANK GOD for Daily Mass! (And the rosary right before! at least at my parish!)

I can only say I wish everyone felt like you two about the Mass and Communion. I did not deserve to be blessed with our Catholic Faith since I rejected it for 40 years. Nobody talked me into believing what I know to be true about our faith; it was only by the Grace of God.
I wish everyone were blessed in such a way.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I can only say I wish everyone felt like you two about the Mass and Communion. I did not deserve to be blessed with our Catholic Faith since I rejected it for 40 years. Nobody talked me into believing what I know to be true about our faith; it was only by the Grace of God.
I wish everyone were blessed in such a way.

Of course you deserved it. You’re here aren’t you! Thanks be to God!

 

[AlegreFe]

We can do nothing for zerinus.

Let us pray for a New Pentecost on him and on all of us!

Here is my video about the Novena to Our Lady of All Nations for a New Pentecost.

Only the Holy Spirit can reveal the Truth to zerinus.

 

[zerinus]

We can do nothing for zerinus.

Let us pray for a New Pentecost on him and on all of us!

Here is my video about the Novena to Our Lady of All Nations for a New Pentecost.

Only the Holy Spirit can reveal the Truth to zerinus.

Guess what, I think you are boring!

zerinus

 

[joe370]

I agree, I am afraid it’s hopeless! The irony is, he has no qualms with the notion that Jesus, when walking and talking with his apostles and other, was the omnipotent, omniscient all knowing “I am”(GOD) and a mere man in the flesh, AT THE SAME TIME, while outright rejecting the notion that the host once consecrated via the holy spirit could be the glorified flesh and blood and the bread and wine of Jesus at the same time. The 1st century followers (believers) had no problem believing he was the son of God even though they could only see another human like themselves, likewise catholic’s have no problem believing that the host, once consecrated is in fact Jesus’ flesh and blood even though we can only see mere bread and wine.
Show me the symbolism in the following and will convert to your denomination…

Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.

 

[ufamtobie]

Guess what, I think you are boring!

zerinus

ZERINUS, DID JESUS COME IN THE SPIRIT OR IN FLESH?
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR THOUGHT ON THIS.

Ufamtobie

 

[AlegreFe]

Guess what, I think you are boring!

You would say that. Only you, at this point, would find me boring. I said what I had to say. I would ask you to go back and read all my posts and watch my videos. But I know that would be a mute point.

There are many others here who spoke and said what they had to say and I’m sure they still have a lot more to say. I am just a stay at home mom and these other people here had (and I’m sure still have) a lot more to say than I did. I am grateful for all of them as I have learned from them also.

I’m glad you find me “boring.” At least I know I’m doing something right.

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’
sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you
and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for
so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

I’ve said my peace. You are in my prayers zerinus. I leave you in the hands of the Holy Spirit and I place you in the Immaculate Heart of Mary. You cannot go wrong with Our Lady and the Holy Spirit as you can never separate the two.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[zerinus]

You would say that. Only you, at this point, would find me boring. I said what I had to say. I would ask you to go back and read all my posts and watch my videos. But I know that would be a mute point.

There are many others here who spoke and said what they had to say and I’m sure they still have a lot more to say. I am just a stay at home mom and these other people here had (and I’m sure still have) a lot more to say than I did. I am grateful for all of them as I have learned from them also.

I’m glad you find me “boring.” At least I know I’m doing something right.

I’ve said my peace. You are in my prayers zerinus. I leave you in the hands of the Holy Spirit and I place you in the Immaculate Heart of Mary. You cannot go wrong with Our Lady and the Holy Spirit as you can never separate the two.

Matthew 7:

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

Luke 6:

41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye.

zerinus

 

[MelanieAnne]

Matthew 7:

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

Luke 6:

41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye.

zerinus

Not pertinent

 

[tomcnj]

A guy I once knew who was a Eucharistic minister brought the host, in it’s case in his pocket, into a hospital room with a dying child, and the child started screaming out that Jesus was in the room. My friend swears that he never mentioned that he was going to get the Eucharist and bringing it into the room.

On a related note, I love how certain Protestants and others pick and choose what they take literally. They seem to take the real OT non literal stuff literally, yet when Jesus Himself declares something as literally true, because the RC Church takes it at face value and Dogmatizes it, then it must be subject to all sorts of “interpretation”, because of course if Catholics take it one way then the opposite MUST be true!! LOL.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel, to me, the idea that Jesus assimilates us into Him at the Eucharist makes perfect sense. We are the church founded by Jesus. The church is not a building or an institution it is a people. We are the church. He is the head, we are the body. The church and Jesus are one. This is the gift He has given to all of us. We are all blessed to receive this gift.

Mother Angelica once put it another way, and perhaps it is simpler and less philosophical. She was responding to the criticism made by some that Catholics don’t read the Bible enough, don’t talk about Jesus enough, etc. (all of which is demonstrably not true, but that’s another subject.) Mother Angelica’s response was that unlike other churches that just talk about Jesus in our church we actually commune with Him. Yes, we do!

I don’t know why some people insist on making this so hard. “This is my Body” and “This is my Blood” ~ Jesus said it, His words were simple and plain, easy to understand. If you trust Jesus, then the rest is easy. If you don’t trust Him, then it’s obviously very hard to believe. In that case, your problem is not with Real Presence or the mechanism of Transubstantiation. It’s with Trusting in the Word of God. Those that don’t trust in Jesus need to start there.

This is the good news of the Gospels. Others think of a church as a building or a man institution. The Catholic church is the body of Jesus christ on earth and Jesus is the head, this Traditional teaching of the church is given to us by St. Paul himself in Ephesians 5-6. These analogies that the Catholic Church is the body of Jesus Christ, the bride, confirms sacred scripture as Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in him, so it is with his Church that recieves his body, blood, soul and divinity in order to be with him , in him and through him in the unity of the Holy Spirit all glory and honor is yours almighty Father,forever and ever Amen.
It is here in the Eucharist celebration where heaven and earth meet in Revelations 21:3-4 … :“BEHOLD, GOD’S DWELLING IS WITH THE HUMAN RACE. He will DWELL WITH THEM AND THEY WILL BE HIS PEOPLE and GOD HIMSELF WILL ALWAYS BE WITH THEM (AS THEIR GOD). 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and their shall be no more death (just like Jesus promised to those who eat and drink his body and blood) or mourning, wailing or pain, (for) the old order (flesh old covenant) has passed away.” 5…"Behold I make all things new…6 They are accomplished (passed tense) I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end.

I agree with you this faith starts with trusting Jesus and cling to his every word that gives life. In the beginning it was the Sacrificial Crucified Christ that was the stumbling block for Jews and Greeks, now it is the Sacrifical True body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ that becomes the stumbling block for the prideful. Pride the prinicipality that always battles with the flesh, the weapon to overcome such pride is humility to God himself as you state in believing his Word, and the most effective arsenal that the Church has is LOVE.

enjoyed your commentary Peace be with you

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

Guess what, I think you are boring!

zerinus

Then…

Matthew 7:

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

Luke 6:

41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye.

zerinus

He demands to be treated with charity yet does he give any to those who disagree with him?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Matthew 7:

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

Luke 6:

41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye.

zerinus/QU

Come on z, according to the posts you threw the first stone. I dont think Alegre’s commentary deserved these scriptures because you have taken them out of context, and is uncharitable. Dont use God’s word to justify your emotions against another person. Praying for peace.

Tell me z because you dont believe in the True Presence of Jesus Christ in his consecrated bread and wine by his own words. Does this qualify you as an antichrist? Do you believe I am antichrist because I obey his command to eat his flesh and drink his blood?

What makes believing in Jesus Words to do as he commands to eat his flesh and drink his blood so unbelieving? Is it because you dont see the body and blood of Jesus in the conscrated bread and wine according to the flesh? Or can it be that you haven’t recieved the Holy Spirit according to the Apostolic Tradition and Sacred Scripture in order to see the True presence of Jesus Christ in his Eucharist. For example those who were baptised in Jesus, still needed to recieve the Sacrament of Confirmation by the Apostles themselves in order to recieve the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

The case against Transubstantiation, will not change what God has instituted. The only case against transubstantiation is ones own pride and belief that comes against Jesus commands not the Holy Apostolic Catholic Church who only obeys the commandments of Jesus himself. So your case is not against the messenger ( Roman Catholic church), it is against ones own fallible interpretation of Jesus commands to eat his body and drink his blood. The True presence of Jesus in his Eucharist was instituted by God, not the Church. The Roman Catholic church is just a faithful bride to her husband Jesus.

I pray you can be honest with God and determine the difference between pride and Faith in Jesus Christ our savior, who only wants to be one with you, both body and soul, as he created us for, to commune with him. For we have tasted that the Lord is good, which is a foretaste of what is to come eternally with him.

Peace be with you

 

[twopekinguys]

ZERINUS, DID JESUS COME IN THE SPIRIT OR IN FLESH?
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR THOUGHT ON THIS.

Ufamtobie

I would like to add this to your question to Z

Isaiah 43:10-11 (New American Standard Bible)

10"You are My witnesses," declares the LORD,
     "And My servant whom I have chosen,
     So that you may know and believe Me
     And understand that I am He 
     Before Me there was no God formed,
     And there will be none after Me. 
11"I, even I, am the LORD,
     And there is no savior besides Me.

To me, it tends to dispute the whole idea of a man becoming a god, getting his own planet, etc.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Those who claim to make a case against the teachings of our Lord Jesus christ about his true presence in the Eucharist are anti Christ. I dont make this claim it is written so let it be known here.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2 This is how you can know the Spirit of God; EVERY SPIRIT THAT ACKNOWLEDGES JESUS CHRIST COME IN FLESH BELONGS TO GOD.

3 and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the Spirit of the ANTICHRIST that as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.

4 You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you (Eucharist) is greater than the one who is in the world (flesh).

1. They belong to the world, accordingly, their teaching belongs to the world, and the world listens to them.

6 We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. THIS IS HOW WE KNOW THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH AND THE SPIRIT OF DECEIT.

John 15:4 Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches, Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing.

If Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches, then how are the branches to survive without the vine that gives the branches life through his own body and blood. Transubstantiation says yes to Jesus for those to consume his body, blood, soul and divinity.

Please read all of John 15 that parallels John 6

Peace be with you, and may God enlighten us through his Holy Spirit.