The case for Christianity

[Duke12VonFalkenburg]

Watch the movie or read the book “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel

Watch it / Read it

 

[BT3241]

There are lots of Christians involved with science
List of Christians in science and technology - Wikipedia

Science is not an atheist view its man’s search for the truth and how the world works and yes theres mountains of mistakes and errors and theories but that’s how it works God would of known we were going to look he made us that way. there sure are a lot of good things from it just look around you.

 

[Dan_Defender]

Atheism logically leads to despair. If nothing after death is the end for all, then why do/not do anything? life becomes meaningless.

 

[Pattylt]

Atheism logically leads to despair. If nothing after death is the end for all, then why do/not do anything? life becomes meaningless.

This isn’t the first time you’ve made a claim like this. Thousands of atheists living happy lives and finding purpose and fulfillment shows the claim just isn’t true. As a matter of fact, atheists that do feel life is pointless and purposeless tend to wind up latching onto a religion. Since very few atheists revert or convert to theism compared to the numbers of theists that become atheist, your point fails even harder.

Just because you find purpose and hope in your faith doesn’t mean that’s the only way to find these things. Most atheists feel that their life is even more precious and meaningful BECAUSE it’s the only life we have. Because this is our only existence, we better make it count. We don’t have the pleasure of being forgiven by a priest (in persona Christi) we must make our own amends and take responsibility for our actions.

Some people…even some Christians…aren’t comforted by the thought of living for eternity. To some, that’s a scary or dreadful prospect.

To atheists, it isn’t that science is giving us all the answers, it isn’t. It’s that faith doesn’t seem to give us ANY answers, just a lot of wishful thinking with wishful answers. No matter how reasonable the religion appears, at some point you have to take the leap of faith. Without the leap, it becomes unreasonable or unbelievable. We seem unable to make this required leap and most all of us have tried…for years!

 

[Eric_Hyom]

In fact here’s the definition, “strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion

I believe the first sentence in the Bible is an absolute truth; ‘In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.’

The rest of the bible is a lifetime journey trying to understand, to be inspired and to live by.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Sort of a worry then about all the interest in the origin of ‘species’. And the periodic table.

No worry at all. Just prove how the universe and life came to be by natural causes.

 

[FiveLinden]

Just prove how the universe and life came to be by natural causes.

Did the universe ‘come to be’? Why could the universe not have ‘always been’ in some form or another? And given that both the universe and life are ‘natural’ are not ‘natural causes’ their most obvious ‘cause’?

 

[lanman87]

So I suppose I wanted to hear why you guys believe your worldview to be the most intuitive/logical worldview.

I think it is harder to believe that the universe and life happened by chance than to believe in a creator. Millions of “little things” had to happen with the correct materials/matter, in the correct location in the universe, in the correct order, in the correct conditions, and so on, for our universe to come into being (without a creator) and develop life as we know it on earth. The odds make winning the lottery look like a sure thing.

It is easier to believe in the supernatural. That a being that operates outside our natural senses and natural laws designed and created the Universe and life on Earth. And once you believe that the supernatural can and does exist then it is easy to believe the Biblical accounts.

There is more evidence that the Christian worldview of the supernatural is historic and real than the competing religious worldviews. We don’t just have stories, we have the locations that it all happened, we have remnants of the Jewish Temple, the location of the crucifixion, and records of eye-witness accounts of the resurrected Jesus and the zeal of those who knew the resurrected Jesus to spread the “good news”.

Our Scriptures weren’t given to one man, there were written by dozens of men and took over 1000 years for the Bible to be written as God revealed His plans and purposes to those men. That shows that that Judeo-Christian God was not a belief delivered to one person or one time period.

Anyway, it is difficult to make a case for Christianity on a message forum. If you don’t/can’t believe in the supernatural then logical or historical arguments will not matter to you. But if you can believe in the supernatural then Christianity is a compelling answer to supernatural questions of life after death, why evil happens, where did we come from, what is our purpose, and so on.

 

[fhansen]

I’m not quite sure how to articulate this, but after quite a bit of deliberation, it just seems as though an atheist worldview can give more eloquent/logical answers to the questions that plague humanity.

The biggest question that plagues humanity is the question of death, whether or not one continues to exist after this life. The second question involves sin/evil in this world, and how that’s overcome. Atheism can’t handle either one. What worldview does atheism even espouse, for that matter, other than that God does not exist?

The Bible can be quite confusing and even seemingly contradictory, and little so-called miracles involving saints have nothing to do with the beliefs or articles of faith that Christianity is based on, and which the Church received, preserved, and proclaimed before a word of the New Testament was written.

In broad brushstrokes Christianity maintains that God exists, that God is good, trustworthy, merciful, and true, with man’s best interest at heart including continued existence after this life, and therefore that foundational to this universe is love, goodness, order, purpose and meaning, in spite of the chaos and evil that humans may well participate in here.

People go through the motions of this life as if they know more or less what they’re doing, But atheism cannot answer the most basic questions: where do we come from, if anywhere, what are we here for if for anything, and where are we going, if anywhere? That describes the state of a lost person. Revelation/knowledge given to this world, combined with the grace that only a real God can grant, enables us to know and believe in the truth, the not at all irrational, revealed concepts that give real meaning to and make sense of the world we live in.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

And given that both the universe and life are ‘natural’ are not ‘natural causes’ their most obvious ‘cause’?

What seems obvious to you does not seem obvious to me. Where is the evidence for natural causes.

 

[Dan_Defender]

But atheism cannot answer the most basic questions: where do we come from, if anywhere, what are we here for if for anything, and where are we going, if anywhere? That describes the state of a lost person.

I agree. Not just lost, but living a meaningless life. Some of them focus on enjoying this life as much as possible as death is so final to them, but even in that effort, they find no real peace.

 

[fhansen]

Yes, and I appreciate how Scripture acknowledges this as well:

"For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors…" 1 Pet 1:18

"If the dead are not raised,
“Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die.” 1 Cor 15:32

 

[fredystairs]

I agree. Not just lost, but living a meaningless life. Some of them focus on enjoying this life as much as possible as death is so final to them, but even in that effort, they find no real peace.

I think that if I was an atheist, I’d do one of two things; either spend all of my time enjoying every physical pleasure possible or I’d do everything I could to be in the best physical shape as I could to last as long as I could.

 

[meltzerboy2]

I think empirical, scientific evidence, reason, and common sense can, at times, all be overrated. There is also intuitive evidence, or, as Pascal put it so eloquently, “le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait point.” (The heart has its reasons that reason does not know.)

 

[IanAG]

Take a look at Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins, and compare them with Jesus.

Then, ask yourself which of them would I aspire to be like…and there’s your answer.

My experience is that atheists put a premium on being right, theists (in most cases) on being loving.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

I think the case relies on the mindset of atheists. Because inevitably everyone in the western world gets their basic sense of morality from Christ’s teaching.

 

[Peeps]

I’m not quite sure how to articulate this, but after quite a bit of deliberation, it just seems as though an atheist worldview can give more eloquent/logical answers to the questions that plague humanity. Additionally , all the inconvenient little holes in Christianity begin to add up it seems. For example, numerous inconsistencies throughout The Bible, God’s seemingly immoral actions, and other things such as the olivet discourse’s prophecies being unfulfilled, or even the underwhelming “miracle” of liquefying the blood of St. Januarius. Also, the concept of faith is inherently illogical because it essentially means believing in something despite a lack of evidence. I’m not saying that there is no answers to the aforementioned questions/points, but that it creates quite the hurdle for logically believing Christianity. So I suppose I wanted to hear why you guys believe your worldview to be the most intuitive/logical worldview.

Before you make any decision about Christianity, read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. It’s short, and many many people have come to faith after reading this book. Our priest constantly recommends it to us.

Lews was an atheist, before coming to faith. He was influenced to accept Christianity in part because of the influence of J.R.R. Tolkien, a Catholic! (C.S. Lewis was not Catholic, but Anglican, which is very close to Catholicism when it comes to practice, liturgy, worship styles, etc.–certainly closer than Baptist or any other Evangelical fellowship!).

The book is easy to read, much easier than, e.g., Chesterton’s apologetics. I read it when i was around 13 years old, and I’ve read it several times since.

 

[Theo520]

I’m not quite sure how to articulate this, but after quite a bit of deliberation, it just seems as though an atheist worldview can give more eloquent/logical answers to the questions that plague humanity.

What are these questions that plague humanity, where atheists’ have the upper hand? I think religions do an excellent job on the essential questions like, the purpose of living and how to treat our neighbors.

The athiest world view provides legal boundaries not to cross, but it doesn’t provide any ideals of behavior or morals.

 

[IanAG]

Reposted in correct place.

 

[IanAG]

I’m not quite sure how to articulate this, but after quite a bit of deliberation, it just seems as though an atheist worldview can give more eloquent/logical answers to the questions that plague humanity.

Because it is a complete and reasonable worldview which considers the true situation of mankind and offers salvation (or rescue) to all who desire it.

The Problem

• We were all created to glorify God and live in relationship with Him and each other forever.
• We have fractured those relationships by following our own selfish desires.
• We know this at some level, and this plagues our conscience and causes us to build defences which further separate us from God and each other…a vicious spiral downwards.
• We are destined to live unsatisfying lives and under the fear of death.

The Solution - Salvation through the work of Jesus Christ

First we are justified …pointed in the right direction

• Jesus died on the cross to set us free from the power of sin and fear of death, to give us a new start, a new heart and the gift of eternal life.
• Jesus’s death brings us back into authentic relationship with God and others…healing.

then we are sanctified … steadily grow towards the person God created us to be

• Jesus, Mary, the saints and the whole church help us to discover and grow to the full stature of what was intended for us…our authentic selves as part of a loving community.

Atheism provides no answers to the purpose or meaning of life, nor does it provide an overarching vision of the future, a unitive goal towards which we can all work together. Most of it is built on negation rather than creativity.

Two Bible verses come to mind…

”Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:7‬ ‭NIVUK‬‬

”You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.”