The Case For Infant Baptism

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Rbt_Southwell said:
Still beating that old dead horse of ‘justified by faith alone’ huh Linkowski?!

You have been shown on countless other threads where your PERSONAL interpretation goes astray from centuries of received wisdom of Scripture.

You know that the “Law” referred to in the NT is the Jewish law concerning circumcision, dietary restrictions, avoidance of non-Jews, and the like, yet you glom on your own, pontifical assertion without even a courtesy nod to tradition, custom and COMMON SENSE READING AND UNDERSTANDING in context of Scriptural passages.

Read the whole thing, Linkowski, and read it without a preconceived, prejudicial mistaken belief in the evil Catholic Church.

Robert
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Let me ask you something…if you keep the commandments (which are all about love for God and man) for the purpose of finding favor with God and earning salvation by them, is it love??? That is the point of justification by faith alone. Faith apart from works of law - any work done with the intent to earn favor with God (which goes entirely against grace). When one is transformed by Christ who is the end of the law for righteousness, putting faith in Him entirely for salvation - bowing to Him as Lord in repenatnce and faith, they can now love…prior to that, the main focus of the law was to bring about the knowledge of their sin…

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

BUT…

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Keeping the commandments now is fruit of the Spirit in keeping with the above scripture.

And the common problems that people have with this doctrine of justification by faith apart from works of law were already handled by Paul…

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Only after a person is justified by faith alone can one truly love. This happens in the heart prior to baptism (Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.)

In Christ.
 
But Scripture says we are not justified by faith alone.

James 2

Faith and Works
14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,

16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

19You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, **was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? **

26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
 
fellowChristian said:
But Scripture says we are not justified by faith alone.

James 2

Faith and Works
14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,

16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

19You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, **was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? **

26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
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What you need to understand is that James is tackling a differnt angle than Paul is…He is speaking of the nature of the faith that is saving faith. In James 2 - he is showing what dead, useless, demonic faith is - and how well does the scripture say…

Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can **that faith **save him?

So - you have dead faith…

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

Demonic faith…

James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

Useless…

James 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

What are we speaking of - dead faith. What kind of justification are we speaking of?? The proof of one’s faith - the evidence. This is a different justification than in Romans which is the declaration of one to be righteous at the time of the new birth. That is in event that begins the Christian life. James is speaking of the evidencing of that faith in the life of the Christian. How is this communicated in the passage???

Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
James 2:18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; **show me **your faith without the works, and I will **show you **my faith by my works.”

Faith that is by itself is not faith at all - being by itself…

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

We are saved by faith that works - not faith and works. And prior to baptism, we must have faith unto justification…it is a matter of the heart first. Babies cannot do that. My previous postings cover that quite well.
 
so does the meaning of faith change between these two verses? Even the bible simply describes faith to mean a belief in something not yet seen…

So, is the meaning of faith modified? or does this verse simply mean someone who believes, without seeing proof, but does not act on that faith is dead…

In Christ
 
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