The Case of Sola-L and Sola-C

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Spirithound said:
Who is united? Under what? How do we know when someone is not united?
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The Catholic Church is united through the Eucharist and Sacraments and the authority of the Holy Father and the Magesterium. Those who do not hold to those Sacred Teachings, Scripture, and Tradition, give lip service to their faith but are not truly practicing it. Aside from the formal declarations of the Bishops for extreme and publicly scandalous cases, I believe we all know those who do not actively live their faith, and/or participate in the Sacraments.

It is not for us to judge their souls, but we can safely say they are not united in the Truth of the Holy Catholic Church, no?

God bless.

-Paul
 
CopticChristian said:
Cath,

The Catholic Church is not based on Sola-L or Sola-C.

As a Catholic that was catechized the teachings are based on an Apostolic Faith that is based on Scripture and Tradition. There is as you know what is called the Sufficiency of Scripture. The Catholic view is Material Sufficiency as opposed to Formal Sufficiency.
This is explained here.

catholicfidelity.com/apologetics-topics/sola-scriptura/material-vs-formal-sufficiency-of-scripture-by-mark-shea/
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Never went through RCIA
 
cath4alltime said:
in passing
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Cath,

No criticism intended. Your noting this in passing suggests that this statement does not take the Material Sufficiency discussion into account in the statement that you made.
Of course there is not a lot of things from the CC in the Bible either
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Your statement on the surface may be viewed as correct however knowing the Material Sufficiency discussion may cause you to rethink this.

Ok:)
 
cath4alltime said:
Nope
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Cath,

Then I can conclude several things

There is no quote leaving me to wonder what you are responding to

Your prior answers included the quote function and were specific in their address. This suggests a less specific and more general answer. Your prior answers with quotes were not Yes, No, Yes…rather Yea…a more emotional form of yes. The No was definitive and the Nope was more cavalier.
Yea:D
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No
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Nope
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I see that you have differing feelings and differing thoughts on things that are not necessarily specific and in consideration that this thread is about Sola-L and Sola-C, I am not sure why you posted here on this topic.
 
cath4alltime said:
I actually just found out recently it’s a praxis, never thought of it that way even when I was a happy Protestant. Being a praxis of course it would not be in the Bible. **Of course there is not a lot of things from the CC in the Bible either **
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I’m not Catholic, and even I find this to be far from the truth.

Jon
 
CopticChristian; 9611659:
I see that you have differing feelings and differing thoughts on things that are not necessarily specific and in consideration that this thread is about Sola-L and Sola-C, I am not sure why you posted here on this topic.
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Because you assumed only Protestants are divided which is not the case. While Catholic internet jockeys say that Catholics are united all, the truth is in many ways Catholics are just as divided as any group. The source of division may be different and in the case of Protestants the division can be traced to how they view Scriptures differently in Catholicism the division is how people want Catholicism to be and their different interpretations of Catholicism. To deny there is not division in Catholicism is to stick one’s head in the sand or analogous to stick fingers in one’s ears and saying “na, na, na” because they don’t want to hear it.

As far as Biblical sufficiency goes I do believe the Scriptures are in and of themselves sufficient to bring one unto salvation as the Pope said in one of his address and I also believe that the Bible is sufficient to show Christians how to live their lives by Christian principles. Is the Bible sufficient for doctrine, that I would be just a bit iffy on.
JonNC; 9613025:
I’m not Catholic, and even I find this to be far from the truth.

Jon
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To be truthful the Marian dogmas like Mary’s sinlessness are not in Scripture, the Assumption of Mary is not in Scripture; Eucharistic Adoration is not in Scriptures, things like these.
 
cath4alltime said:
To be truthful the Marian dogmas like Mary’s sinlessness are not in Scripture, the Assumption of Mary is not in Scripture; Eucharistic Adoration is not in Scriptures, things like these.
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But this is not what you said. You said,** Of course there is not a lot of things from the CC in the Bible either. ** Now, unless you misstated, I took this to mean that very little of what Catholicism teaches is in the Bible. Perhaps I misunderstood, but specifically about the three things you named:

Mary’s sinlessness: the Angel’s greeting could certainly be inferred this way. It is certainly not in opposition to scripture.

Assumption of Mary is not in Scripture: I agree that scripture tells us nothing of it, but it, too, is not in opposition to the bible, and the East too has a simlar teaching, Dormition.

** Eucharistic Adoration is not in Scriptures**: this is simply not correct. Everyday in everyway we are to worship, praise, and yes, adore our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is what Eucharistic Adoration is. Everytime I receive His body and blood, I do it on my knees, in adoration of our Lord.

Jon
 
cath4alltime said:
Because you assumed only Protestants are divided which is not the case. While Catholic internet jockeys say that Catholics are united all, the truth is in many ways Catholics are just as divided as any group. The source of division may be different and in the case of Protestants the division can be traced to how they view Scriptures differently in Catholicism the division is how people want Catholicism to be and their different interpretations of Catholicism. To deny there is not division in Catholicism is to stick one’s head in the sand or analogous to stick fingers in one’s ears and saying “na, na, na” because they don’t want to hear it.

As far as Biblical sufficiency goes I do believe the Scriptures are in and of themselves sufficient to bring one unto salvation as the Pope said in one of his address and I also believe that the Bible is sufficient to show Christians how to live their lives by Christian principles. Is the Bible sufficient for doctrine, that I would be just a bit iffy on.

To be truthful the Marian dogmas like Mary’s sinlessness are not in Scripture, the Assumption of Mary is not in Scripture; Eucharistic Adoration is not in Scriptures, things like these.
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Cath,

You may want to reconsider RCIA, anticipating…

No
Nope
Nah

Your life, you decide.
 
JonNC said:
But this is not what you said. You said,** Of course there is not a lot of things from the CC in the Bible either. ** Now, unless you misstated, I took this to mean that very little of what Catholicism teaches is in the Bible. Perhaps I misunderstood, but specifically about the three things you named:

Mary’s sinlessness: the Angel’s greeting could certainly be inferred this way. It is certainly not in opposition to scripture.

Assumption of Mary is not in Scripture: I agree that scripture tells us nothing of it, but it, too, is not in opposition to the bible, and the East too has a similar teaching, Dormition.

** Eucharistic Adoration is not in Scriptures**: this is simply not correct. Everyday in every way we are to worship, praise, and yes, adore our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is what Eucharistic Adoration is. Every time I receive His body and blood, I do it on my knees, in adoration of our Lord.

Jon
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I did not say opposition, I said not in. As far as the last one it is nowhere in Scripture as many things like the Trinity, it can be gleaned but it is just not there, maybe your more Catholic then even me 🙂
 
CopticChristian said:
Cath,

You may want to reconsider RCIA, anticipating…

No
Nope
Nah

Your life, you decide.
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Nope. You see your assuming quite a bit about me when you frankly do not know anything, I was taught by a priest because I was the only convert and not in RCIA way but the old way before that and I hazard that I know more than you. Do not put emotions in the written post that are not nor were ever there.
 
cath4alltime said:
Nope. You see your assuming quite a bit about me when you frankly do not know anything, I was taught by a priest because I was the only convert and not in RCIA way but the old way before that and I hazard that I know more than you. Do not put emotions in the written post that are not nor were ever there.
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Cath,

Many people at the CAF know more than I do. I do not know you.🙂
 
cath4alltime said:
Liberal Catholics, Traditionalist Catholics to name a few. Yep that’s unity, no Catholicism is not united just most internet jockeys give the delusion of unity. I been both and there are just as much disunity as any other Church. I have come to the conclusion that Catholicism is not unique or unified
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You are applying a Protestant paradigm to Catholicism, cath. Protestantism celebrates the individual’s right to interpret the Bible and come to her own conclusions. Catholicism, OTOH, proclaims that there is One Truth, One Faith, and to the degree that you have separated yourself from this faith is the degree that you are not united to this faith.

As one CAFs member has stated, “There are no ‘two people within the CC’. You are projecting your Protestant reality into the CC. There is the teaching of the Church and it is clear to all through the Catechism, encyclicals etc—”–Philthy.
 
cath4alltime said:
I did not say opposition, I said not in.
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On the marian doctrines, with the exception of Holy Theotkos and the virgin birth, you are right. They are not explicit, which is why Lutheranism believes them to be pious belifs, but not doctrine.
As far as the last one it is nowhere in Scripture as many things like the Trinity, it can be gleaned but it is just not there,
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So worshipping the Savior is not in scripture? And Trinity is there, as evidenced at Christ’s baptism.
maybe your more Catholic then even me 🙂
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Perhaps so. 🤷

Jon
 
PRmerger said:
You are applying a Protestant paradigm to Catholicism, cath. **Protestantism celebrates the individual’s right to interpret the Bible and come to her own conclusions. **Catholicism, OTOH, proclaims that there is One Truth, One Faith, and to the degree that you have separated yourself from this faith is the degree that you are not united to this faith.

As one CAFs member has stated, “There are no ‘two people within the CC’. You are projecting your Protestant reality into the CC. There is the teaching of the Church and it is clear to all through the Catechism, encyclicals etc—”–Philthy.
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Well, regarding doctrine, not all of us.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
On the marian doctrines, with the exception of Holy Theotkos and the virgin birth, you are right. They are not explicit, which is why Lutheranism believes them to be pious belifs, but not doctrine.

Jon
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Hi Jon, regarding the Catholic belief in the Assumption, how do you account for no tomb nor anyone claiming her burial site? There are many things explicit in the bible, especially on the real presence that many churches still do not believe in. Who determines what is explicit and doesn’t sola scriptura by definition look at tradition? Why not in this case? :confused:
 
Porknpie said:
Hi Jon, regarding the Catholic belief in the Assumption, how do you account for no tomb nor anyone claiming her burial site?
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Hi Pork,
I didn’t say I didn’t believe in the Assumption, just that it isn’t explicit in scripture. No reason to doubt the Blessed virgin is with her Son.
There are many things explicit in the bible, especially on the real presence that many churches still do not believe in. Who determines what is explicit and doesn’t sola scriptura by definition look at tradition? Why not in this case? :confused:
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Absolutely, at least in Lutheran thinking. The confessions have lots of references to Tradtion, the early Church, and the ECF’s. The RP is utterly clear in scripture, as it is in Tradition, and by the unanimous (Luther’s word) testamony of the Fathers.

Jon
 
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