The Catechism and Kind and Number

[Sunhair]

I’m wanting to gift a catechism to a family member who goes to mass but don’t really know their faith that well, they don’t really go to confession either.

Why don’t the Compendium or even the Catechism of the Catholic Church not state that one must confess the ‘kind and number’? Is it optional, a mere formality? I don’t want them to have any ‘wiggle room’. At most it says one must confess their grave sins, but isn’t that is too vague? I wan’t to give them something with authority behind it, instead of just telling them.

 

[UpUpAndAway]

Canon law covers this:

Can. 988 §1. A member of the Christian faithful is obliged to confess in kind and number all grave sins committed after baptism and not yet remitted directly through the keys of the Church nor acknowledged in individual confession, of which the person has knowledge after diligent examination of conscience.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3H.HTM

 

[Jared2914]

That’s probably because the Catechism was made more for priests and catechists than laypeople. They have to pack a lot of information into a little book, so certain things that would be good for laypeople end up left out. In this case, it might be best to use the Baltimore Catechism, which was written more for laypeople. It is entirely in line with the newer, international catechism. You can see it here: ~Baltimore Catechism #3 : Lesson 19~ I don’t know where you come from, but in the US there is also a US Catholic Catechism for Adults, which does mention number and kind in Chapter 18: Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation. This would be ideal if you are wanting a physical book to give them. I’m sure you can find a company that sells the Baltimore Catechism in a book, but it would probably looks like a cheap book since there isn’t a lot of demand for older catechisms.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

In this case, it might be best to use the Baltimore Catechism, which was written more for laypeople. It is entirely in line with the newer, international catechism. You can see it here: http://www.baltimore-catechism.com/lesson19.htm

No, it’s not. The Baltimore Catechism was never an official catechism of the Church, and it contains teachings on things like limbo and about Protestants that is not fully in line with what is in the current official catechism of the Church.

We’ve been over this before on many threads whenever anybody wants to promote the Baltimore Catechism as an alternative to the official catechism of the Church. It’s not really a great starting point for somebody unfamiliar with the Church. They may absorb wrong information.

If the person truly needs some kind of a simplified Catechism for young people or whatever, they should use YouCat.
Baltimore Catechism was intended for the instruction of young people so that is why it is simple.

 

[Canvas]

“kind and number” is a shorthand way of confessing all of your sins.

If you commit ten robberies, you commit ten different sins. Instead of confessing each robbery one by one, you condense it into “I committed ten robberies”. Since there were ten sins of a certain type, they can be lumped together with a number indicating how many times you committed that sin.

Of course, with many sins, we are not sure of the exact number of times we committed it, particularly if it has been a long time. In those situations we estimate. You don’t have to wrack your brain to come up with a very accurate “I committed sin X about 4,350 times.” Most of us don’t have a photographic memory that can recall sins we committed many times a long time ago, or how many times we committed a sin if we did it a lot (habitual type sins, for example). Instead— “I commited sin X a very large number of times, for years, on a regular basis,” is probably sufficient, or something along those lines.

 

[Vico]

I’m wanting to gift a catechism to a family member who goes to mass but don’t really know their faith that well, they don’t really go to confession either.

Why don’t the Compendium or even the Catechism of the Catholic Church not state that one must confess the ‘kind and number’? Is it optional, a mere formality? I don’t want them to have any ‘wiggle room’. At most it says one must confess their grave sins, but isn’t that is too vague? I wan’t to give them something with authority behind it, instead of just telling them.

The number are “all mortal” and kind is covered by “even if they are most secret and have been committed against the last two precepts of the Decalogue”, which means all kinds.

Catechism

1456 Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance: “All mortal sins of which penitents after a diligent self-examination are conscious must be recounted by them in confession, even if they are most secret and have been committed against the last two precepts of the Decalogue; for these sins sometimes wound the soul more grievously and are more dangerous than those which are committed openly.”

 

[Vico]

…
The Baltimore Catechism was never an official catechism of the Church, …

It is called a local catechism and is still good. Local catechisms are mentioned by St. Pope John Paul II wrote:

The approval and publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church represent a service which the Successor of Peter wishes to offer to the Holy Catholic Church, to all the particular Churches in peace and communion with the Apostolic See: the service, that is, of supporting and confirming the faith of all the Lord Jesus’ disciples (cf. Lk 22:32 as well as of strengthening the bonds of unity in the same apostolic faith. Therefore, I ask all the Church’s Pastors and the Christian faithful to receive this catechism in a spirit of communion and to use it assiduously in fulfilling their mission of proclaiming the faith and calling people to the Gospel life. This catechism is given to them that it may be a sure and authentic reference text for teaching catholic doctrine and particularly for preparing local catechisms. It is also offered to all the faithful who wish to deepen their knowledge of the unfathomable riches of salvation (cf. Eph 3:8). It is meant to support ecumenical efforts that are moved by the holy desire for the unity of all Christians, showing carefully the content and wondrous harmony of the catholic faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church , lastly, is offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (cf. 1 Pt 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes.

Baltimore Catechism No. 3 - 1949 (Fr. Connell Contraternity Edition) has approval as did other earlier editions of local catechisms. The origin is the

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Having an “imprimatur” does not make it an official catechism of the Church.

Edited to add, from the Wikipedia article on Baltimore Catechism:

A Catechism of Christian Doctrine, Prepared and Enjoined by Order of the Third Council of Baltimore , or simply the Baltimore Catechism ,[1] was the official national catechism for children in the United States of America, based on Robert Bellarmine’s 1614 Small Catechism . The first such catechism written for Catholics in North America, it was the standard Catholic school text in the country from 1885 to the late 1960s. It was officially replaced by the United States Catholic Catechism for Adults in 2004, based on the revised universal Catechism of the Catholic Church.

While the use of the local catechism was approved - so it wasn’t being used wrongly to educate Catholic youth back in USA when it was used - the Baltimore Catechism definitely needed an overhaul after Vatican II, as this article explains in great detail. It’s my understanding that the local catechisms were used before that because there was no one Catechism developed by the church. Now there is. And we should use it.

As I said above, the material contained in the Baltimore Catechism on topics like limbo and how Catholics relate to other religions is at best, incomplete and at worst, misleading in view of current teaching. Why would you steer a new Catholic to information that is likely to confuse them or make them think wrongly? Makes no sense to me unless people want to deliberately foment confusion over Church teaching.

 

[Vico]

…

We should use the Catechism of the Catholic Church, second edition, the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and the YouCat. Also, being Byzantine Catholic, we also use the Catechism of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, Christ Our Pascha. (358 pages.) It was clear that I said Baltimore Catechism is a local catechism, and that local catechisms should be used, as we are directed to prepare and use local catechisms:

“This catechism is given to them that it may be a sure and authentic reference text for teaching catholic doctrine and particularly for preparing local catechisms.”.