the Catholic Church created Islam

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I ran into some weirdo the other day who said “the catholic church created Islam” something about the arabs needed a messiah so the pope creates mohammed…

which makes me laugh it seems silly that the pope would create another relgion.

just wondering, has anyone else ever heard of the above assertion?

is it some sort of weird UFO conspiracy, or is it some sort of charge that has a little more “merit”… need to know if I should simply ignore it, or is it a “valid” topic for debate…
 
No, don’t worry; your initial response was the correct one. Such an allegation is so far beyond stupid that it doesn’t really bare thinking about. Especially when not a single shred of actual evidence is presented.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight
 
just wondering, has anyone else ever heard of the above assertion?
As a young boy Mohammad met a Christian monk called Bahira and his faith developed from there. (So yes, it was very much to do with Christianity) However, it’s not just about this meeting. He was brought up an orphan and raised by the community. He was also illiterate, unlike Jesus who was educated. He would have witnessed young Jews and Christian’s practicing their faith, so despite his illiteracy will have learned a lot of Scripture off by heart.

Even though he was obviously in awe of the Christian monk and he certainly would have witnessed the monogamous marriages of Christians, yet he still married many wives. This suggests that he didn’t fully understand the nature of sin as it is defined in a Christian context. (Unless someone understands sin, they won’t know that they are sinning against God)

I think that it’s very strange that Muslims love of their prophet doesn’t cause them to cry for his lack of education as a child and his orphan status. He almost certainly suffered a great deal of trauma as a child, which will have caused him great distress throughout his young adult life. Who can deny such terrible pain has happened? This I find odd.

Mohammad revered Jesus. Thus, I believe that he probably thought that he would have rescued Jesus off the cross, or would not have let Him go there in the first place. To think that He was even executed would have been too much for him to have conceded and a shameful situation (missing the whole point of the crucifixion and its purpose for him personally). He almost certainly miss-understood the meaning of the sword in the Bible too, as he would have heard it from the monk and not out of Scriptures.

Unlike the Bible, The Koran is stripped of human witnesses. Human witness is very much a part of The Bible, external to the Scripture and yet integrated within. The stories of the living witnesses bring to it the many natures of man and also validity. We also know that the terrible cost of being a disciple is one of great sacrifice which is personalised in each and every one of the stories.

Interestingly, the Muslim faith claims to be an earlier faith than Christianity, and yet Christians are named by the term ‘Christians’ in the Koran. If it was earlier than Christianity then Christianity wouldn’t have been in their book, neither would Jesus or Mary; so it debunks the theory that their faith came before.

There are parts of the Koran that very much point to finding and following Jesus.

They also say that God could not ‘beget a Son’, even though they acknowledge that
Mary was a virgin and it was a miraculous birth. This means that Mary’s Son could only have come from God. They also say that Jesus spoke from His crib in defence of Mary, that He will form a bird from clay and breath life into it, that He will heal the sick and quicken the dead, He will also be raised to life again (remembering that many things concerning Jesus had already happened anyway by the time the Koran had been written, so they were writing in retrospect)

Think about it, we are the clay and Jesus, who is the potter, molds us into who we are through salvation, and breaths His holy Spirit into us (like a dove) So what the Koran says is effectively a muddle and misunderstanding of Scriptures.

Peace be upon him, because his soul needs peace, something Islamic learned men probably realised as they looked into these things. He probably meant well, and he perhaps never intended to start a whole new religion. He got a following of people through his spirituality, just as Jesus did, and they needed to write it all down for the sake of their children’s children.

There should not be an unhealthy tension between the Muslim faith and the Christian faith because it’s important that Muslims learn of a loving saving Jesus.

There is a web site called ‘Muslim Journey to Hope’. which is filled with testimonies of people who have converted from the Muslim faith to Christianity . If people post the link to the videos on this site onto Muslim sites and on the message boards of Muslim countries, then people with watch the videos will not be so frightened about leaving the faith. The best people to speak to Muslims are ex-Muslims. It’s not worth getting into lengthy wordy Scripture against Koranic writings. Prayers and putting them in contact with people who have the tools to help them convert are far more effective.

God bless
 
I ran into some weirdo the other day who said “the catholic church created Islam” something about the arabs needed a messiah so the pope creates mohammed…
Lord have mercy! It’s tough bein’ th’ big dawg!!
 
As a young boy Mohammad met a Christian monk called Bahira and his faith developed from there. (So yes, it was very much to do with Christianity) However, it’s not just about this meeting. He was brought up an orphan and raised by the community. He was also illiterate, unlike Jesus who was educated. He would have witnessed young Jews and Christian’s practicing their faith, so despite his illiteracy will have learned a lot of Scripture off by heart.

Even though he was obviously in awe of the Christian monk and he certainly would have witnessed the monogamous marriages of Christians, yet he still married many wives. This suggests that he didn’t fully understand the nature of sin as it is defined in a Christian context. (Unless someone understands sin, they won’t know that they are sinning against God)

I think that it’s very strange that Muslims love of their prophet doesn’t cause them to cry for his lack of education as a child and his orphan status. He almost certainly suffered a great deal of trauma as a child, which will have caused him great distress throughout his young adult life. Who can deny such terrible pain has happened? This I find odd.

Mohammad revered Jesus. Thus, I believe that he probably thought that he would have rescued Jesus off the cross, or would not have let Him go there in the first place. To think that He was even executed would have been too much for him to have conceded and a shameful situation (missing the whole point of the crucifixion and its purpose for him personally). He almost certainly miss-understood the meaning of the sword in the Bible too, as he would have heard it from the monk and not out of Scriptures.

Unlike the Bible, The Koran is stripped of human witnesses. Human witness is very much a part of The Bible, external to the Scripture and yet integrated within. The stories of the living witnesses bring to it the many natures of man and also validity. We also know that the terrible cost of being a disciple is one of great sacrifice which is personalised in each and every one of the stories.

Interestingly, the Muslim faith claims to be an earlier faith than Christianity, and yet Christians are named by the term ‘Christians’ in the Koran. If it was earlier than Christianity then Christianity wouldn’t have been in their book, neither would Jesus or Mary; so it debunks the theory that their faith came before.

There are parts of the Koran that very much point to finding and following Jesus.

They also say that God could not ‘beget a Son’, even though they acknowledge that
Mary was a virgin and it was a miraculous birth. This means that Mary’s Son could only have come from God. They also say that Jesus spoke from His crib in defence of Mary, that He will form a bird from clay and breath life into it, that He will heal the sick and quicken the dead, He will also be raised to life again (remembering that many things concerning Jesus had already happened anyway by the time the Koran had been written, so they were writing in retrospect)

Think about it, we are the clay and Jesus, who is the potter, molds us into who we are through salvation, and breaths His holy Spirit into us (like a dove) So what the Koran says is effectively a muddle and misunderstanding of Scriptures.

Peace be upon him, because his soul needs peace, something Islamic learned men probably realised as they looked into these things. He probably meant well, and he perhaps never intended to start a whole new religion. He got a following of people through his spirituality, just as Jesus did, and they needed to write it all down for the sake of their children’s children.

There should not be an unhealthy tension between the Muslim faith and the Christian faith because it’s important that Muslims learn of a loving saving Jesus.

There is a web site called ‘Muslim Journey to Hope’. which is filled with testimonies of people who have converted from the Muslim faith to Christianity . If people post the link to the videos on this site onto Muslim sites and on the message boards of Muslim countries, then people with watch the videos will not be so frightened about leaving the faith. The best people to speak to Muslims are ex-Muslims. It’s not worth getting into lengthy wordy Scripture against Koranic writings. Prayers and putting them in contact with people who have the tools to help them convert are far more effective.

God bless
Thx but I dont even know any muslims? think you posted to he wrong forum 😛
 
As a young boy Mohammad met a Christian monk called Bahira and his faith developed from there.
erm… You give us an interesting story, which I am sure many would dispute. May I ask, what is the source of your account?
 
Originally Posted by Pilgrimage
As a young boy Mohammad met a Christian monk called Bahira and his faith developed from there.
erm… You give us an interesting story, which I am sure many would dispute. May I ask, what is the source of your account?

BAHIRA
Bahira is a Nestorian monk that Muhammad was supposed to have met during a trip returning from Syria to Mecca. His Christian name was supposed to be Sergius or Georgius.

The Muslim traditions say that Bahira recognized, through various signs, that Muhammad is a prophet.

There are suggestions that Bahira stayed with Muhammad and taught him as alluded to in Surah xvi.105. “Husain the commentator says on this passage that the Prophet was in the habit of going every evening to a Christian to hear the Taurat and Injil.”

Source:

(Hughes’ Dictionary of Islam, p. 30, quoting Tafsir-i-Husaini, Sale p. 223 and Muir’s Life of Mahomet, p. 72)
 
I ran into some weirdo the other day who said “the catholic church created Islam” something about the arabs needed a messiah so the pope creates mohammed…

which makes me laugh it seems silly that the pope would create another relgion.

just wondering, has anyone else ever heard of the above assertion?

is it some sort of weird UFO conspiracy, or is it some sort of charge that has a little more “merit”… need to know if I should simply ignore it, or is it a “valid” topic for debate…
There was a Jack Chick tract to that effect many years ago. Don’t know where he got it from, though.
 
There was a Jack Chick tract to that effect many years ago. Don’t know where he got it from, though.
after some more digging, does appear to be a chick track…

still not sure as to chicks source material though…
 
I ran into some weirdo the other day who said “the catholic church created Islam” something about the arabs needed a messiah so the pope creates mohammed…

which makes me laugh it seems silly that the pope would create another relgion.

just wondering, has anyone else ever heard of the above assertion?

is it some sort of weird UFO conspiracy, or is it some sort of charge that has a little more “merit”… need to know if I should simply ignore it, or is it a “valid” topic for debate…
Historian Hilaire Belloc described Islam as a Christian heresy, but not originating from within Christendom.
Mohammedanism was a heresy: that is the essential point to grasp before going any further. It began as a heresy, not as a new religion. It was not a pagan contrast with the Church; it was not an alien enemy. It was a perversion of Christian doctrine. It vitality and endurance soon gave it the appearance of a new religion, but those who were contemporary with its rise saw it for what it was - not a denial, but an adaptation and a misuse, of the Christian thing. It differed from most (not from all) heresies in this, that* it did not arise within the bounds of the Christian Church.* (italics mine)
 
BAHIRA
Bahira is a Nestorian monk that Muhammad was supposed to have met during a trip returning from Syria to Mecca. His Christian name was supposed to be Sergius or Georgius.

The Muslim traditions say that Bahira recognized, through various signs, that Muhammad is a prophet.
I realize that many sources state that Bahira was a Nestorian, but that is not really a certainty. Especially since most of what is taught in the Koran about Jesus does not reflect Nestorian ideas. It is much closer to Arianism for starters.

There were other ‘Christians’ scattered about Arabia as well, since it was so remote and mostly distant from the empire, various heresies (many were types of gnostic) could survive and spread in the environment. To someone who is curious, the desert could have been like a big salad bowl full of different tastes in religion.
 
Historian Hilaire Belloc described Islam as a Christian heresy, but not originating from within Christendom.
I don’t agree that it is a Christian heresy, it just one of many possible types of monotheism that pretends to follow the Judeo-Christian faith tradition.

Being monotheistic does not automatically imply worshipping the same God as other monotheists.
 
I don’t agree that it is a Christian heresy, it just one of many possible types of monotheism that pretends to follow the Judeo-Christian faith tradition.

Being monotheistic does not automatically imply worshipping the same God as other monotheists.
👍 Exactly!
 
I ran into some weirdo the other day who said “the catholic church created Islam” something about the arabs needed a messiah so the pope creates mohammed…

which makes me laugh it seems silly that the pope would create another relgion.

just wondering, has anyone else ever heard of the above assertion?

is it some sort of weird UFO conspiracy, or is it some sort of charge that has a little more “merit”… need to know if I should simply ignore it, or is it a “valid” topic for debate…
shhh. it was the jesuites!! they started islam. or was it the Jews? the Masons? whoa! i got it. it was the aliens!:eek: peace:)
 
That’s an interesting link about the so-called “Bahira codes”, Sam. I’ve read a little about Bahira recently.

The story of Bahira (given in Syriac the name “Sargis-Bahira”) is much more interesting than the Islamic manipulation of the story would have us believe. In the Islamic version, Bahira is essentially a functionary of Muhammad, recognizing his prophethood while the boy was still in his teens. That’s it. There is nothing more to the story. But in the Christian versions (both Arabic and Syriac), there is a lot more depth to their interactions. In the Syriac version, Bahira essentially ghostwrites the Qur’an via his instruction of Muhammad, and what comes out is Muhammad’s understanding of what Bahira was trying to teach him (which, if you subscribe to the idea that Bahira was a Nestorian, was probably somewhat suspect to begin with). Griffith’s “Syriac Writers on Muslims and the Religious Challenge of Islam” (S.E.E.R.I., 1995) makes a pretty good case that the original writer of the Christian version of the Bahira story was actually a West Syrian (Jacobite), casting Bahira as an East Syrian (Nestorian) in order to make that community in essence responsible for “inventing” Islam. The relevant point of the story in either the Arabic or Syriac versions is that Bahira is said to be a heretical Christian monk – he has been cast out of his own community because of the corrupted nature of his teachings. And these are what he passes on to Muhammad (hence, Islam has some small amount of truth, mixed in with a lot of falsehood about what Christians believe).

So it would seem that those who want to blame the Catholic Church for “inventing Islam” are looking at the wrong church. They ought to first look to the Nestorians, and even then they ought not to blame all of them for the actions and teachings of one renegade monk.
 
I think it may be one of Jack Chick’s foggy notions?🤷
It is one of J.Chicks nonsense.
There was a Jack Chick tract to that effect many years ago. Don’t know where he got it from, though.
40.png
Sarah_Angel:
chick.com/reading/tracts/0062/0062_01.asp
[

](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0062/0062_01.asp)

Alberto Rivera.:rolleyes: Conman extraordinaire.
That particular tract is even crazier than some of the others…
 
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