The Catholic Church has grown weak and impotent:

[joeysmom]

I think that instead of complaining and criticizing our Church and it’s leadership, we really should consider joining our parish councils. We can try to do our own part at a local level. Show them what orthodox Catholicism really is. I mean, we can start by giving imput on the music they play at our Masses, the speakers at our Mission. I have started to voice my opposition to liturgical abuses I notice. Of course, in a respectful way.
Joey(name removed by moderator)

 

[Mystophilus]

Isidore_AK:

I look around and all I see makes me shudder. Gay clergy, a magesterium that can’t seem to find its own authority. Even the Pope seems like he can’t or won’t take action. All the strength has drained from the Church. We have heterodox priests openly giving heretical homilies (if its not a ‘Sister’ doing the homily in the first place!), bishops who thumb their noses at Rome, and it seems like most of the laity are on the path to socialism.

They are starting to think critically about their own assumptions. This is a sign of intellectual maturity.

As for the laity turning socialist, what is wrong with them caring less about themselves and having a greater concern for other people?

Bring back the Inquisition, bring back the militant orders. Bring the Church back to a state of glory. Bring back the Crusades.

“Put your sword back in its place, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword” (Mt 26:52),

   'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'  This is the first and greatest commandment.  And the second is like it: '**Love your neighbor as yourself.**'  All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22: 37-50), 

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. **If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also**.  And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'  But I tell you: **Love your enemies** and pray for those who persecute you, **that you may be sons of your Father in heaven**. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.  If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?  And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?  Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matthew 5:38-48).

I feel like there is no place in the Church for me any longer. Just last week my parish priest said that we shouldn’t be surprised to see the 911 terrorists in heaven…what the heck is wrong with him???

Maybe he has been spending too much time hanging around with a merciful God.

[While nailed to the cross] Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” (Luke 23:34)

I just want the Church to label her enemies as such and then point a crusade their direction. Don’t give me the line about praying, or spiritual warfare. I am severely disgruntled with the state of the Church. I want change.

“our struggle is not against flesh and blood” (Ephesians 6:12). The Church’s enemies are not, and never have been, human beings. That has never been our job.

Even if humans were the problem, God really can take care of things so much better than we shall ever be able to:

The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and maintains his wrath against his enemies. (Nahum 1:2)

“It is mine to avenge; I will repay.” (Deuteronomy 32:35)

I understand that you are frustrated, but I would suggest that you might benefit from a different focus for your energies. When Jesus came, the Church of the Jews was thoroughly corrupted. While he did spend time criticising it, he criticised it not for its heterodoxy but for its failure to help the people, and he spent more time healing the sick than criticising anyone for anything.

An open-minded faith is not a lost faith, and mercy is not weakness.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Ghosty:

Considering the standard Roman Mass to be heretical does not make for a holy movement, I’m afraid. More traditional, maybe, but certainly not more holy. Disliking abuses of the Mass is not the same as claiming the Mass itself is heretical. In fact, that would be schismatic and heretical itself.

Pray for your family members, and also that abuses of the Mass will stop.

I do pray for them. I also tell them that in spite of all the liturgical abuses, as long as the words of consecration are there, it is a valid Mass.

 

[trustmc]

Isidore_AK:

I’m so sick of everything that I’m about ready to run screaming from the Church…

You are either a spoiled child or a protestant incognito. Just exactly where do you intend to go running to? Some protestant “church” where they serve crackers and grape juice as a “symbol” of our Lord’s sacrifice?

Where ministers are hired by the congregations?

Where their “priests” and “bishops” have wives and husbands, and who are not necessarily of the opposite sex?

Where the bible is fallibly interpreted?

Where you can go to pick up free condoms from the “youth minister”?

Where you’re taught that the Lord’s gift to you is prosperity rather than faith, hope and love?

Where you have no one ordained to whom you confess your sins and receive sanctification?

Where the most reverent form of musical worship includes drums, electric guitars and a Power Point presentation?

Where you can go and take aerobics classes instead of ministering to the poor?

Where you can shop for the latest “must have” christian pop item at the church mall located in the lobby next to the coffee shop?

Where money changers would feel right at home?

Churchill once said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all others. Well, something similar could be said of the Catholic Church – that is, if you focus on the corrupt instead of on Christ.

Consider the following verses:

Matthew 13:24-43 24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. 26 "But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. 27 “The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' ***28*** "And he said to them, An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?' ***29*** "But he said, No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 `Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.””’… 36 Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37 And He said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Isidore_AK:

Don’t give me the line about praying, or spiritual warfare. I am severely disgruntled with the state of the Church. I want change.

Too bad. You’re going to get the line anyway. As you can see from the very words of Jesus, we are to wait until the final harvest. The Crusads and Inquisition didn’t exactly work out the way members of the Church with your mentality had hoped, now did it? God’s timing is far better. Be still and know he is God.

In Christ,
Mike

 

[Hospitaller]

Isidore_AK:

Bring back the Inquisition, bring back the militant orders. Bring the Church back to a state of glory. Bring back the Crusades.

I’m all for that. I don’t imagine many others would agree with me though.

trustmc:

The Crusads and Inquisition didn’t exactly work out the way members of the Church with your mentality had hoped, now did it?

Either you’re deliberately ignoring the facts or you haven’t studied history very closely.

 

[mark_a]

the phoenix:

This particular priest . . . . . .made an astonishing leap to the statement that “Terri Schiavo’s situation leaves us in a quandary about what to do in such cases.”

So as the priest stood shaking hands just outside the church door after Mass, I uttered three simple sentences to him: “The Vatican being pro-life has taken the position of defending Terri Schiavo’s right to life. Pope John Paul II clearly stated that Terri should continue to be provided with nutrition and hydration through a feeding tube. There is no quandary.”

Good for you. What was his response??

 

[Lazerlike42]

The inquisition is still alive and well.

It’s called the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith.

In fact, it will probably please to death everyone to know that the office that B16 held as a Cardinal (Prefect) is actually the office of high inquisitor, it’s just called something less… harsh sounding nowadays.

 

[the_phoenix]

mark a:

Good for you. What was his response??

Hello mark a,

Nice to meet you!

It was all the priest could do to smile and nod nervously while saying shortly, "Yes … yes … yes … " to acknowledge the truth of my … er, the Catholic Church’s … statements.

Just after I had approached the priest, an old couple overhearing me and wishing perhaps to shame me into silence by peer pressure, one said to the other, “What’s that about, dear?” and the other replied, "I dunno, I think she was saying something to the priest … " using a tone of voice meant to convey disparagement and disapproval of my behavior.

So I took two steps over to that couple and said to them, “Yes, I was defending Terri Schiavo’s right to life.” That left them speechless, and with that, I left them on their way and went on out to my car in the parking lot.

What about you, mark a? If you wish to share, I’d be interested in your opinion on how you would respond, or what you would recommend, based on the situation here that Isidore_AK describes?

~~ the phoenix

 

[the_phoenix]

Lazerlike42:

In fact, it will probably please to death everyone to know that the office that B16 held as a Cardinal (Prefect) is actually the office of high inquisitor, it’s just called something less… harsh sounding nowadays.

Yay team !!!

 

[thistle]

trustmc:

You are either a spoiled child or a protestant incognito. Just exactly where do you intend to go running to? Some protestant “church” where they serve crackers and grape juice as a “symbol” of our Lord’s sacrifice?

Where ministers are hired by the congregations?

Where their “priests” and “bishops” have wives and husbands, and who are not necessarily of the opposite sex?

Where the bible is fallibly interpreted?

Where you can go to pick up free condoms from the “youth minister”?

Where you’re taught that the Lord’s gift to you is prosperity rather than faith, hope and love?

Where you have no one ordained to whom you confess your sins and receive sanctification?

Where the most reverent form of musical worship includes drums, electric guitars and a Power Point presentation?

Where you can go and take aerobics classes instead of ministering to the poor?

Where you can shop for the latest “must have” christian pop item at the church mall located in the lobby next to the coffee shop?

Where money changers would feel right at home?

Churchill once said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all others. Well, something similar could be said of the Catholic Church – that is, if you focus on the corrupt instead of on Christ.

Consider the following verses:

Matthew 13:24-43 24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. 26 "But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. 27 “The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' ***28*** "And he said to them, An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?' ***29*** "But he said, No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 `Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.””’… 36 Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37 And He said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
Too bad. You’re going to get the line anyway. As you can see from the very words of Jesus, we are to wait until the final harvest. The Crusads and Inquisition didn’t exactly work out the way members of the Church with your mentality had hoped, now did it? God’s timing is far better. Be still and know he is God.

In Christ,
Mike

I agree with what you have said. I notice that other threads opened by Isidore_AK seem to be full of anger. For example she/he calls most of the poor people in America lazy good for nothings who deserve no help and he/she directs this specifically at the victims of Katrina. Now she/he is angry at the Catholic Church. She/he seems to be angry at the whole world for some reason.I think we should all pray for Isidoe_AK because that person is in real need of help (from priest or medical help).

 

[Church_Militant]

I’m still trying to figure out what this all has to do with Apologetics? Nothing so far as I can see.

The facts of the doctrines of the church have not changed and I don’t think JPII or Benedict XVI are weak. I think that weakness is most seriously shown by those who give in to failing charity and rant at wanting to “kick buttocks and take names” (so to speak)

If you’re so angry that you want to punch your bishop or priest, you have most definitely failed in your call to love and follow Our Lord…who never “decked” anybody except the devil and He did that by laying down His holy and perfect life.

I just can’t see anything that shows the image of Christ.
I’m supposed to be like Him…not like **me.

**Within the Body of Christ we are called to obedience and love not to make the church weaker still (if she is weak to begin with. They say that a chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link don’t they?) Then the weakness that I see is not just in the **people **who happen to wear that Roman collar or who are confused by the myriad modern and non-Catholic beliefs that are not the heritage that we have received from the apostles, but from the failing faith and charity of those who are filled with anger and violence.

Is that the way of Our Lord? Is it?

Our most holy faith is most assuredly under attack today my brothers and sisters, but that is nothing new. She has been assaulted for the whole length of her 2,000 year history, and yet has survived because Our Lord has been faithful to His promises to her. Do we feel that He will fail in His promises to His Church? God forbid!!!

**No one is perfect. **Not me, Izzy, or any of us. But the Catholic Church is in no way weak and impotent because it is changing the lives of thousands of people every day. Just the way it has changed my own life, which was a very serious wreck until about 5 years ago, but “the Most High has done great things for me and holy is his name.”

And He continues to change lives every day as I am able to share my faith with others. This is the way we conduct the spiritual warfare that we are called to.

I leave you with this very relevent passage from the Word of God:

Hebrews 12:1 And therefore we also having so great a cloud of witnesses over our head, laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us: 2 Looking on Jesus, the author and finisher of faith, who having joy set before him, endured the cross, despising the shame, and now sitteth on the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For think diligently upon him that endured such opposition from sinners against himself; that you be not wearied, fainting in your minds. 4 For you have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin: 5 And you have forgotten the consolation, which speaketh to you, as unto children, saying: My son, neglect not the discipline of the Lord; neither be thou wearied whilst thou art rebuked by him. 6 For whom the Lord loveth, he chastiseth; and he scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 Persevere under discipline. God dealeth with you as with his sons; for what son is there, whom the father doth not correct? 8910 And they indeed for a few days, according to their own pleasure, instructed us: but he, for our profit, that we might receive his sanctification. But if you be without chastisement, whereof all are made partakers, then are you bastards, and not sons. Moreover we have had fathers of our flesh, for instructors, and we reverenced them: shall we not much more obey the Father of spirits, and live?

*11* Now all chastisement for the present indeed seemeth not to bring with it joy, but sorrow: but afterwards it will yield, to them that are exercised by it, the most peaceable fruit of justice. *12* Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees, *13* And make straight steps with your feet: that no one, halting, may go out of the way; but rather be healed. *14* Follow peace with all men, and holiness: without which no man shall see God. *15* Looking diligently, lest any man be wanting to the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up do hinder, and by it many be defiled.

Pax vobiscum,

 

[stanley123]

Isidore_AK:

What happened to the Catholic Church? Why has it grown so weak?

I look around and all I see makes me shudder. Gay clergy, a magesterium that can’t seem to find its own authority…

One of the local priests said that relatives of his had similar questions and they ended up by joing with the SSPX.

 

[BayCityRickL]

Isidore_AK:

What happened to the Catholic Church? Why has it grown so weak?

I look around and all I see makes me shudder. Gay clergy, a magesterium that can’t seem to find its own authority. Even the Pope seems like he can’t or won’t take action. All the strength has drained from the Church. We have heterodox priests openly giving heretical homilies (if its not a ‘Sister’ doing the homily in the first place!), bishops who thumb their noses at Rome, and it seems like most of the laity are on the path to socialism.

Bring back the Inquisition, bring back the militant orders. Bring the Church back to a state of glory. Bring back the Crusades. I read our histories, and wonder if the Church I see in the books even exists now in any form. Why was JPII so weak? Why did he let things go so far during his reign?

I feel like there is no place in the Church for me any longer. Just last week my parish priest said that we shouldn’t be surprised to see the 911 terrorists in heaven…what the heck is wrong with him??? Why do our Bishops support this (insert favorite expletive here)!!!

I just want the Church to label her enemies as such and then point a crusade their direction. Don’t give me the line about praying, or spiritual warfare. I am severely disgruntled with the state of the Church. I want change.

I know exactly how you feel. I, too, am waiting for the Pope to act. Did you read the Zenit news of the other day, where the Pope has encouraged the ancient practice of reading the Bible and meditating on it? How retro ! How radical ! Long live Benedict ! Long live the Pope !

 

[Al_Masetti]

Be of hope.

But what can I do as merely an individual???

The answer: Study and take up some of the tactics of the liberals when they gradually imposed their will on the majority.

For example, get educated on some of the verbal distinctions between various issues, such as infallibility and impeccability. or vincible versus invincible ignorance. Stuff like that and write about it.

The “forgiveness issue” is a case in point.

As an individual, I have no right to revenge. I MUST - I am charged by my leader, Jesus Christ, to forgive my enemies.

HOWEVER, if I am a police officer or a soldier, I have an OBLIGATION (more than merely a “right”) to arrest or kill (depending on the authority I have) people who have perpetrated serious crimes (or worse).

So, hypothetically speaking, if someone blows up the building where I am working and kills all my friends and co-workers and by some miracle I survive, then I have no recourse except to forgive the attacker.

HOWEVER, if I happen to be a peace officer or in the military or as a civilian have some professional capacity to deter these types of violence, then I have an OBLIGATION to hunt down and arrest, or kill, or deter future attacks from other terrorists, or their supporters, their suppliers, their financiers, their trainers, their hospitalers, etc.

This has nothing to do with revenge. It is done cold-bloodedly and with FULL AUTHORITY.

Sometimes some people enjoy blurring the distinctions between these various situations. They may say, “what right do you have to do that?”. And the response may be, " It’s not a right; it’s a responsibility."

We need to learn, rehearse, practice our debating points, speak out, to write letters to the heads of corporations and heads of dioceses and to Members of Congress and to the President and to the heads of media and letters to editors.

As an illustration, two fellows recently set up their own mutual fund whose focus is to give them leverage to counter the liberals who are bypassing the Congress and leaning directly on corporate CEO’s to gain leftist goals. These two guys are Steve Milloy and Tom Borelli. Steve has a Web site: www.junkscience.com and the URL for the mutual fund is www.freeenterpriseactionfund.com There are some papers and recent news there about their goals.

We, as Catholics, can draw from the strategies and tactics identified by Milloy and Borelli.

Check it out.

Take action.

Be of hope.

 

[mlchance]

Gilbert Keith:

Was he not typical of all these bishops who want to be loved by everyone? So he made no outright enemies by refusing to court as little controversy as possible.

He’s a shoe-in for sainthood. Meanwhile, he did little to clean up the mess left by Paul VI.

How utterly ludicrous.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[UBERROGO]

Isidore_AK:

I guess I’m one of those with the ‘Slash & Burn’ mentality that was mentioned in your article…oh well…I’m a Fighter not a Lover. Kick the heterodox bishops out of the Church. Let them take their heterodox laity with 'em. They’ll die off soon enough…

You are the Jack Chick of the Roman Catholics LOL

 

[mark_a]

What about you, mark a? If you wish to share, I’d be interested in your opinion on how you would respond, or what you would recommend, based on the situation here that Isidore_AK describes?

~~ the phoenix

I probably would have remained silent, gotten mad about it, and posted something angry here.

Which actually makes me part of the problem.

You were right to bring this to his attention promptly. You have inspired me to at least, in the future, ask for a clarification.

His “Yes… yes…yes…” response seems like it must have been a standard substitute for “move along now”. He knew his position was contrary to the Church’s position when he wrote the homily.

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

How utterly ludicrous.

HUH?

Is that the best you can do?

Do you mean John Paul is NOT a shoe-in for sainthood?

 

[Affirmed]

I’m glad someone called you out on that ridiculous point. The only “mess” left by Paul VI and John Paul II came because the bishops and priests took matters into their own hands, not because of something the Pope did or did not do.

 

[trustmc]

hospitaller:

trustmc:

The Crusades and Inquisition didn’t exactly work out the way members of the Church with your mentality had hoped, now did it?

Either you’re deliberately ignoring the facts or you haven’t studied history very closely.

Well, I have studied history quite well while I was in grad school, and on that knowledge along with further study is what I based my comment you quoted above.

I’m afraid it is you who can’t even pick up a newspaper to see how the goals of the Crusades and Inquisition didn’t exactly pan out. Consider that Muslims still have sovereignty over the Holy Land, mosques are going up in Bethlehem next to the Church of the Nativity, and Islam is the now the fastest growing religion in what is now a very un-Christian Europe, and then tell us how the Crusades were successful.

As for the Inquisition, when the Spanish monarchs sanctioned the toruring of non-believers so that they may recant their own religions, tell us how this practice squares with authentic Catholic teaching? You can’t read any world history book without seeing the black eye that the Church still posesses to this day, which has done more to hamper evangelism than perhaps any other stain on the Church. European secularists still site the Inquisition as justification for avoiding any mention of Christianity in its proposed constitution.

A resounding success, huh? Those of us who are more informed don’t think so.

Mike