"The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship"

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magdalina said:
I think you’re onto something.

If leading souls toward eternal salvation is still a goal of the Body of Christ on Earth, the Catholic Church will do well to resolve its differences with the Eastern Orthodox Christian churches before putting one more rebel-Christian-with-an-ax-to-grind through an RCIA program - or heaven forbid - a Catholic seminary.

Authentic Christian communities of both Eastern and Western patrimony should immediately find common ground and present a unified front on as many theological issues as possible. Full political unification is not necessary or even desirable. Nor is a common liturgy. Forcing a Modernized or otherwise Protestantized liturgy on an established community with documented apostolic succession - is a grave sin - and should be declared anathema from the start.

Only when genuine Christians can stand shoulder-to-shoulder for Christ - and against Satan - should we go about the critical task of catechizing and converting [in that order] members of other “faith communities” who wish to be admitted to the one, holy, catholic, apostolic church - established by Christ - here on earth.
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Unification will come, many are hoping by 2054, the millenium of the Great Schism. The reason why I brought up the other Apostolic Churches is because they are founded by the Apostles or through many of their immediate disciples. They have received the same Deposit of Faith as Catholics do, therefore they possess the fullness of truth. So we should include them in saying that they also possess the fulness of truth and the true worship of God. The day will come when the Church on earth will be united once again, they are not heretics against the Faith like many of these other so-called Christians faiths and denominations today.
 
wisdomseeker said:
Great post. Foolish is the right word here. I just dont know how we got where we are today. Mixed faith, of course they are going to create a whole new faith, one that they all can agree on. they reject everything else that stands on the way of their friendship.
I will never take protestantism for granted. they are in error and will lead anyone who adheres to them in the same path. I have witness Catholics being hatefull towards other Catholics to defend protestants. Very sad indeed.
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But Protestants, by virtue of their Baptism, are to be counted among the People of God. They do not enjoy the fullness of the relationship, but a relationship does exist.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Unification will come, many are hoping by 2054, the millenium of the Great Schism. The reason why I brought up the other Apostolic Churches is because they are founded by the Apostles or through many of their immediate disciples. They have received the same Deposit of Faith as Catholics do, therefore they possess the fullness of truth. So we should include them in saying that they also possess the fulness of truth and the true worship of God. The day will come when the Church on earth will be united once again, they are not heretics against the Faith like many of these other so-called Christians faiths and denominations today.
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youtube.com/user/filiiSSR#p/u/3/Yq5olb2YPnQ

🤷
 
DavidKays said:
Since the Catholic Church has the sure dispository on Truth it will be good to attend these interfaith services so that people who have not the fullness of Truth as contained in the Catholic Church can meet someone like you. We are not to keep the Truth to ourselves. These interfaith meetings can give witness and contacts. Remember John Paul II and the Assisi gatherings which he initiated. This is what every Catholic and even us Orthodox can do. We can imitate the Holy Father and bridge people together so that they can trust themselves to what the Truth has revealed to us. Contacts are very important and His Holiness John Paul II has given us the example to imitate.
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You ok with this ?

youtube.com/user/filiiSSR#p/u/3/Yq5olb2YPnQ

or this ?

youtube.com/watch?v=xMrZ39QeKgY

Which one would you prefer to attend ? I don’t want to discuss Assisi, but I’m kind of shocked you would mention it, in light of your post.
 
At_Trent said:
Right, that is indeed Catholic in every aspect. But I meant what the question posed at the beginning of the video I linked to would produce. What answer from the Orthodox ?
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Maybe go to the Eastern forum and ask them? 🤷
The example I showed you shows that they can continue to practice their traditions without any changes. What happens in the Roman Church doesn’t really concern them much as long as the Pope or any other member of the Roman Church will not impose any changes on their liturgy. As far as I know thats the only concern on Liturgies they have. From what I know, most of them couldn’t care less what the RC Church does with its Liturgy.
 
At_Trent said:
You ok with this ?

youtube.com/user/filiiSSR#p/u/3/Yq5olb2YPnQ

or this ?

youtube.com/watch?v=xMrZ39QeKgY

Which one would you prefer to attend ? I don’t want to discuss Assisi, but I’m kind of shocked you would mention it, in light of your post.
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Why will you be shocked about your own Pope? As a Catholic are you not interested in the Holy Father. I am shocked that Catholics have alot of disregard for the Holy Father. I am not going to discuss with you these youtubes but I will look at them. It seems to your post that you disagree with the Pope. If so I am not suprised. I find His Holiness John Paul II has the right attitudes for us to imitate. If you disagree with your Pope then why are you a Catholic? His Holiness has always the right attitudes for us to imitate and if Catholics were true to their Church they will imitate this man who has done more for the Church than any Catholic ever. His work to bridge people together is astonishing and if Catholics will do as he has invited them this feud between Catholics and Orthodox would have ended long ago. Take my advice and read up about this holy and saintly man and do as he tells you and visit the Orthodox. At least that will be a starting place for Catholics to imitate this Pope and may by just may by the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church will have greater understanding between each other. Your Pope was a great man. Listen to him and you will be doing yourself and God a great service.
 
The fisr video that compared the orthodox style mass with the mess was really distrubing. Gave my the willies just looking at that. I just don’t get what was so wrong with our traditions and culture or our Churches and Mass? I mean really? The modern is so much better?🤷
 
At_Trent said:
You ok with this ?

youtube.com/user/filiiSSR#p/u/3/Yq5olb2YPnQ

or this ?

youtube.com/watch?v=xMrZ39QeKgY

Which one would you prefer to attend ? I don’t want to discuss Assisi, but I’m kind of shocked you would mention it, in light of your post.
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I saw these videos and yes I understand what I was seeing. But I like to ask you one question. Why would you be shocked at what I said? I find that you have misunderstood my words to the letter. You seem to be a very strong traditionalist and so am I. However you misunderstand my words perfectly because I was not referring to Eucharistic celebrations at all. There is a major concern in the abuses that the Catholic Church is moving towards. Yes I am concern about that. The Catholic Church in some parts of Her have forgotten what their greatest treasury is. Do you know why the Orthodox Divine Liturgy is the same every Sunday? It is because God is teaching us that it is not what we get from the Liturgy that is important but it is what we give that is our own participation. If you only go to Mass just to get something forget it. You are missing the whole point about it. That’s why so many are devising Litugies so as to entertain and to give something different at every Mass. Man have they got it wrong! What you receive basically is the Lord Jesus. But what is important and many people forget this it is what you give that makes it happen! Jesus wants your participation. If the Mass is to be of value if you only go to be entertained than it is of no value. If you go to bring your participation and your intentions and your prayers then it has value. Yes I see your concerns. But this has nothing to do what I was discussing about in my first post. I was concerned about other faiths and especially about our protestant brethren. With these groups it is helpful to make contacts with the type of services that His Holiness decided on. That was all that I suggested. Catholics tend to remain on their own turf and in this scenerio you are given opportunities to witness for God with the Truth that you have acquired. Now there was no mentioned in my first post to down grade the Eucharist. I am not for that. If Catholics and Orthodox need to get something from the Mass or the Divine Liturgy then I think they have problems. But if they participate better and properly prepare themselves beforehand then the Mass or the Divine Liturgy will be a delight to participate in. It is not what you get that is important, it is what you give. And if you only go and say the Mass is boring or the Divine Liturgy is boring then it is you that is boring! Grow up and do your part and then the Mass will be beautiful. I see your concerns and they are mine as well. But please before you make judgements about me first understand that I am also interested in sharing my faith so that others can become Catholic or Orthodox. I will never approve of changing the Mass or the Divine Liturgy to make it " entertaining ". But I will try to take opportunities to make contacts with the other faiths in services that will be more suited.
 
At_Trent said:
Gatherings with those of other faiths where the Mass is not prayed, but rather a general prayer service.
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How does this practice not lead to scandal? And by scandal, I don’t mean shock and horror, but rather the error of leading people of other faiths to believe that, by worshipping with non-Catholics, Catholics believe that all faiths are equal or that the Catholic Church is not, in fact, the One, True Church that possesses the fullness of revealed Truth?

I know that, for a fact, it does this because I have spoken to Protestants who believe that, as a result of these “interfaith” practices, the Catholics have changed their beliefs on being the one, true Faith. 😦
 
DavidKays said:
I saw these videos and yes I understand what I was seeing. But I like to ask you one question. Why would you be shocked at what I said? I find that you have misunderstood my words to the letter. You seem to be a very strong traditionalist and so am I. However you misunderstand my words perfectly because I was not referring to Eucharistic celebrations at all. There is a major concern in the abuses that the Catholic Church is moving towards. Yes I am concern about that. The Catholic Church in some parts of Her have forgotten what their greatest treasury is. Do you know why the Orthodox Divine Liturgy is the same every Sunday? It is because God is teaching us that it is not what we get from the Liturgy that is important but it is what we give that is our own participation. If you only go to Mass just to get something forget it. You are missing the whole point about it. That’s why so many are devising Litugies so as to entertain and to give something different at every Mass. Man have they got it wrong! What you receive basically is the Lord Jesus. But what is important and many people forget this it is what you give that makes it happen! Jesus wants your participation. If the Mass is to be of value if you only go to be entertained than it is of no value. If you go to bring your participation and your intentions and your prayers then it has value. Yes I see your concerns. But this has nothing to do what I was discussing about in my first post. I was concerned about other faiths and especially about our protestant brethren. With these groups it is helpful to make contacts with the type of services that His Holiness decided on. That was all that I suggested. Catholics tend to remain on their own turf and in this scenerio you are given opportunities to witness for God with the Truth that you have acquired. Now there was no mentioned in my first post to down grade the Eucharist. I am not for that. If Catholics and Orthodox need to get something from the Mass or the Divine Liturgy then I think they have problems. But if they participate better and properly prepare themselves beforehand then the Mass or the Divine Liturgy will be a delight to participate in. It is not what you get that is important, it is what you give. And if you only go and say the Mass is boring or the Divine Liturgy is boring then it is you that is boring! Grow up and do your part and then the Mass will be beautiful. I see your concerns and they are mine as well. But please before you make judgements about me first understand that I am also interested in sharing my faith so that others can become Catholic or Orthodox. I will never approve of changing the Mass or the Divine Liturgy to make it " entertaining ". But I will try to take opportunities to make contacts with the other faiths in services that will be more suited.
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I meant that I was surprised to see a Greek Orthodox praising what happened at Assisi.

There was a time when Catholics just didn’t do certain things. Some things were unspeakable, not open to discussion. This mindset was due to century after century of consistency in teaching.

Then comes VII and afterwords, we start seeing things being looked at in light of the modern world. Everything that looked like we had some wiggle room on, according to VII documents was, looked at. Seems these things soon became, everything.

No offense intended, but look where we are here on this thread. The fruit of this particular topic, this new ecumenical course, is not conversion and reconciliation, but appeasement. And to what avail ? Anti-Catholicism isn’t going away. It’s not fading.

At best, we get back pats for “doing better”. And the sad part is, the laity are ignorant of it all, and when it’s brought up, they are indifferent. Religious indifference. The fruit of false ecumenism.

An ecumenism of return can’t mask the Truth, it has to wave it as it’s banner. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus
 
Onegin said:
How does this practice not lead to scandal? And by scandal, I don’t mean shock and horror, but rather the error of leading people of other faiths to believe that, by worshipping with non-Catholics, Catholics believe that all faiths are equal or that the Catholic Church is not, in fact, the One, True Church that possesses the fullness of revealed Truth?

I know that, for a fact, it does this because I have spoken to Protestants who believe that, as a result of these “interfaith” practices, the Catholics have changed their beliefs on being the one, true Faith. 😦
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Kind of throws EENS out the door doesn’t it ?
 
All Christians, they add, should be as “one”: for then they would be much more powerful in driving out the pest of irreligion, which like a serpent daily creeps further and becomes more widely spread, and prepares to rob the Gospel of its strength. These things and others that class of men who are known as pan-Christians continually repeat and amplify; and these men, so far from being quite few and scattered, have increased to the dimensions of an entire class, and have grouped themselves into widely spread societies, most of which are directed by non-Catholics, although they are imbued with varying doctrines concerning the things of faith. This undertaking is so actively promoted as in many places to win for itself the adhesion of a number of citizens, and it even takes possession of the minds of very many Catholics and allures them with the hope of bringing about such a union as would be agreeable to the desires of Holy Mother Church, who has indeed nothing more at heart than to recall her erring sons and to lead them back to her bosom. **But in reality beneath these enticing words and blandishments lies hid a most grave error, by which the foundations of the Catholic faith are completely destroyed. **

papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11MORTA.HTM
 
At_Trent said:
I meant that I was surprised to see a Greek Orthodox praising what happened at Assisi.

There was a time when Catholics just didn’t do certain things. Some things were unspeakable, not open to discussion. This mindset was due to century after century of consistency in teaching.

Then comes VII and afterwords, we start seeing things being looked at in light of the modern world. Everything that looked like we had some wiggle room on, according to VII documents was, looked at. Seems these things soon became, everything.

No offense intended, but look where we are here on this thread. The fruit of this particular topic, this new ecumenical course, is not conversion and reconciliation, but appeasement. And to what avail ? Anti-Catholicism isn’t going away. It’s not fading.

At best, we get back pats for “doing better”. And the sad part is, the laity are ignorant of it all, and when it’s brought up, they are indifferent. Religious indifference. The fruit of false ecumenism.

An ecumenism of return can’t mask the Truth, it has to wave it as it’s banner. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus
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I know what you mean sir. I believe the high jacking from certain liberal catholics will not change the Catholic Church at all. Your concerns are noted but I will not give them too much weight. The Catholic Church may be going through some problems right now but I am convinced they will be ironed out soon. Remember that for the majority of Catholics and I mean the laypeople that the Catechism is new to them. Centuries of Latin did not educate the Laity so now from Vatican II the doors have been opened for the Laity to take charge and to understand the teaching of the Church. What I believe you are witnessing is just growing pains and I am convinced that is all what it is. I will not be too disturbed about it and all these changes will soon iron itself out and you will see a stronger and more vocal Catholic Church with the Laity taking the charge. Let these Liberals do what they do and soon they will all die out. The Church will emerged out victoriosly. You have God’s promise for that. By the way do you support John Paul II’s endevours especially the one at Assisi. I was just wondering since you did not directly answer my question. I do admire the Late Holy Father and I am convinced his work will not end and especially his work to establish relations with the Orthodox will have initiated the beginning of new dialogues with our 2 Churches to help establish and commence full Communion. We are only at the beginning stages of such a wonderful event. Like I said earlier, things must iron things out so that the Truth will be revealed and all misconceptions and misunderstandings be buried. Thank you for revealing your concerns. May I ask 1 question. What is your belief in regards to the Orthodox?
 
DavidKays said:
I know what you mean sir. I believe the high jacking from certain liberal catholics will not change the Catholic Church at all. Your concerns are noted but I will not give them too much weight. The Catholic Church may be going through some problems right now but I am convinced they will be ironed out soon. Remember that for the majority of Catholics and I mean the laypeople that the Catechism is new to them. Centuries of Latin did not educate the Laity so now from Vatican II the doors have been opened for the Laity to take charge and to understand the teaching of the Church. What I believe you are witnessing is just growing pains and I am convinced that is all what it is. I will not be too disturbed about it and all these changes will soon iron itself out and you will see a stronger and more vocal Catholic Church with the Laity taking the charge. Let these Liberals do what they do and soon they will all die out. The Church will emerged out victoriosly. You have God’s promise for that. By the way do you support John Paul II’s endevours especially the one at Assisi. I was just wondering since you did not directly answer my question. I do admire the Late Holy Father and I am convinced his work will not end and especially his work to establish relations with the Orthodox will have initiated the beginning of new dialogues with our 2 Churches to help establish and commence full Communion. We are only at the beginning stages of such a wonderful event. Like I said earlier, things must iron things out so that the Truth will be revealed and all misconceptions and misunderstandings be buried. Thank you for revealing your concerns. May I ask 1 question. What is your belief in regards to the Orthodox?
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If you will give me a day or two, I’ll reply with my thoughts on the Orthodox. I can’t do so now because I simply don’t know enough about the issues. I have a very general knowledge about the events around 1054. I’ll read up on it. I do know that the videos I’ve watched of the Divine Liturgy make me want to watch more.

Just as a general answer, I think the Orthodox are strong in the Faith and the Divine Liturgy is a fitting expression of the Faith, any doctrinal or rubrical issues aside that I’m not informed enough to comment on.
 
StTommyMore said:
Nope. You just need to look at what the Church truly is.
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Can we agree it is at least understandable why some may raise a question or two on the matter ?

The Church isn’t going anywhere, I know that. But some of her clergy and flock can scatter and err.
 
At Trent,

You may be surprised at how much organic development is happening in the Eastern Churches. One Divine Liturgy may not be the same from another, even between two parishes of the same sui juris in the same Eparchy. And in the East this is not seen as an abuse for the most part. Inculturation is a big part of Eastern worship, there is no call like the traditionalists here would for an exact same uniform Liturgy throughout each particular Church. One example is that in the Little Entrance, where there is a procession with the Book of Gospels from out the north Deacon’s door, out to the nave, then through the Holy Doors, in the Ukrainian Church the Book will be presented to the people and people will line up and kiss the book. This doesn’t happen in all Byantine Rite Churches. And from Bro. David I learned that the Prayer Before Communion we pray is only done in the Ukrainian and Ruthenian Church.
 
Onegin said:
How does this practice not lead to scandal? And by scandal, I don’t mean shock and horror, but rather the error of leading people of other faiths to believe that, by worshipping with non-Catholics, Catholics believe that all faiths are equal or that the Catholic Church is not, in fact, the One, True Church that possesses the fullness of revealed Truth?

I know that, for a fact, it does this because I have spoken to Protestants who believe that, as a result of these “interfaith” practices, the Catholics have changed their beliefs on being the one, true Faith. 😦
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How true it is.
there is a passage in Jeremiah that speaks of exactly what is going today in the Church.

29 Shall I not visit for these things, says the Lord? Or shall not my soul take revenge on such a nation? 30 Astonishing and wonderful things have been done in the land. 31 The prophets prophesied falsehood, and the priests clapped their hands: and my people loved such things: what then shall be done in the end thereof? Jeremiah V. 30
 
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