The Catholic Church is just another denomination

[Carol_Coombe]

Oy, I’m fairly certain there is much disorder now. We must be living in two different worlds. Ask any non-Christian looking on from the outside. All they will tell you that they see is disorder and bickering within Christianity. Those like Calvin, and John Wesley did not make things any easier by furthuring those divisions. And they are led by the Holy Spirit to this day? Hmmm…

In Pax Christi
Andrew

Oy, a Jewish former Methodist? Yebo.

You cannot make these statements if you are only ‘fairly certain’; if you only think we ‘must be living in two different worlds’. You cannot base a gross generalisation on the assumption that ‘any non-Christian’ will tell you …

You know from history there have been dreadful sods on both sides of this ridiculous divide between Roman Catholics and other Christian denominations (I will not use the word ‘sects’). Pointing to Calvin and others is not useful.

And yes, it has been gracefully argued that the Holy Spirit guides all His Christian children. It is not impossible to believe this, and in my mind - I am somewhere between Catholicism and catholicism - it is what God intends regardless of what His children perpetuate.

 

[Carol_Coombe]

Actually, it is not we determining for ourselves who is welcome. It is not like Catholics police the congregation. We believe what Christ sais at the institution of the Eucharist, and believe that others who do not believe likewise are not “in communion”. I agree with you that it is not helpful to “tell everyone else they are wrong”, but what are you suggesting. Are you suggesting that everyone should be admitted to the sacrament, even those who do not rightly discern the body and blood of the Lord?

This has been the most painful Easter in my life. I have decided not to attend further RCC services for this weekend. I was baptised a Christian by full immersion too many years ago in a mainline Christian church. I have lived in Christ. I wish to convert to CC. I have undertaken RCIA, etc etc. and attend Mass 5-6 times each week. I have been told by the Bishop I am ‘rich in God’. I have been allowed, during retreat, to take the Catholic sacrament. I have once been told I am ‘more Catholic than many Catholics’.

This Easter, my first in Roman Catholic community, I have tried hard, so hard, to be humble, to humiliate myself before Christ. I have not managed. I have sat, kneeled, prayed alone at church while people stumbled around me - many of whom who are submarines, those who appear at church for confession and Eucharist at Easter and Christmas, and possibly do not know a post from a hole in the ground - to get to the altar for communion, and then again to venerate the Cross. I did not even know that I could ask to be blessed, until my Zambian grandchildren - who have been confirmed - told me.

I attended the local Anglican Church last night, for sung evensong, and knew that wherever I go in the world, I am recognised as a baptised Christian and therefore eligible to receive communion - except at a Roman Catholic Church.

This has been a very personal experience, and perhaps not worthy, perhaps of no merit. But it has hurt deeply, has caused acute anger and frustration, and left me in a state of concern.

I too understand why, if Catholics believe that the Eucharist is truly the flesh and body of Christ, RCC is unwilling to admit others to communion. (Our parish priest last night however had to remind his sometime parishioners not to dip the host into the wine (intinction?) because the Bishops had noticed a lot of Christ’s blood and flesh dropping to the floor underfoot. Several pieces of flesh were dropped on the floor by parishioners - and picked up and quickly eaten. Oh dear, the problems, no matter how hard we try.)

I don’t know what the answer is, but for me, this exclusion of a believer in ***Christ ***from the rites of the Roman Church at local level, is very hard. This is only my personal, but very current, experience. I am not sure where to look next.

 

[cradle_convert]

I feel so sad reading this thread. There is so much fuzzy thinking here.

First of all, it does not take two to separate. Ask any child who has been abandoned by a parent.

Look, the protestant world is full of churches formed by people who seek a church which fits his or her individual beliefs. When that church no longer conforms to the individual’s model, he can just go down to the next block and check out the next pastor. Not quite right? Go down the block. If you can’t quite find a church to fit your paradigm, simply tell others that you find God on the golf course or on the beach. If you are a bold person, start your own church on the end of the next block.

This model of “religion” is based on pride.

RCC’s trying to bring “sheep into the fold” are not arrogant. They are fighting for the Truth.

“What is Truth,” Pilate scoffed. What a day to reflect on that!

Look, if you don’t believe in objective truth, you might as well just go find a denomination that suits your fancy. Pick a church that you like because of its color, or the personality of the pastor.

I listened to a panel of ex-Baptists tonight on Coming Home (EWTN) . The agreed that there are as many sets of beliefs within the Baptist religion as there are pastors. The religion of many “reformers” is actually rebellion. Any authority is looked on as a pest and a denyer of freedom.

But, it is not individual interpretation that gives you freedom… It it the truth that makes you free.
THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

So , all of this bickering about supremacy and superiority means nothing. What is important is the truth. Can two opposing ideas both be true at the same time? Of course not. Either Jesus Christ is present, body, blood, soul and divinity in the Blessed Sacrament or he is not.

When Paul spoke of many getting ill and dying from not discerning the Body, was he kidding around?? Is a “denomination” who simply ignores this speaking the truth? Therefore, is it unkind or uncharitable to call that denomination false? Hardly! It is charity, to speak the truth in charity.

John XVIII For this I was born, and for this came I into the world, that I should give tesimony to the truth: every one that is of the truth, heareth my voice.

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now, I beseech thee, bretheren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no schisms among you: but that you be perfect in the same mind, and in the same judgement.

Remember that many disciples left Jesus when he pressed home the reality of the need to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood. Remember that Jesus asked Peter, "Will you, too leave me?’ Peter replied, “To whom should I go, Lord? You have the words of eternal life.”

Unfortunately and ironically, the truth does divide, as Jesus predicted. Do you want to follow Jesus, or be like sheep, going astray, each going his own way???

Love and Blessed Easter to you

and please pray for Nerfherder… she is having a crisis and needs our prayers

cradle convert

 

[cradle_convert]

WOOPSIE!! I meant Carol Coombe, not Nerfherder… sorry to both of you, and my prayers will be going out to the Holy Spirit for both of you this blessed Easter

love

cradle convert

 

[cradle_convert]

Carol… I have a question…why are you judgemental about “submarines” or observing others’ behaviour in church in a judgemental manner? How do you know their hearts? Could it be that they are there at Easter because of some conversion experience or special grace?? Do you not rejoice when you see them?

Also, how can it be that you did not know you could go up for a blessing?!? Shame on your RCIA instructor!

Also, why are you not willing to wait for initiation before you take communion? Why is this a problem for you??

Genuinely curious…
cradle convert

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Is there anyone who is a devout lover of God?
Let them enjoy this beautiful bright festival!
Is there anyone who is a grateful servant?
Let them rejoice and enter into the joy of their Lord!

Are there any weary with fasting?
Let them now receive their wages!
If any have toiled from the first hour,
let them receive their due reward;
If any have come after the third hour,
let him with gratitude join in the Feast!
And he that arrived after the sixth hour,
let him not doubt; for he too shall sustain no loss.
And if any delayed until the ninth hour,
let him not hesitate; but let him come too.
And he who arrived only at the eleventh hour,
let him not be afraid by reason of his delay.

For the Lord is gracious and receives the last even as the first.
He gives rest to him that comes at the eleventh hour,
as well as to him that toiled from the first.
To this one He gives, and upon another He bestows.
He accepts the works as He greets the endeavor.
The deed He honors and the intention He commends.

Let us all enter into the joy of the Lord!
First and last alike receive your reward;
rich and poor, rejoice together!
Sober and slothful, celebrate the day!

You that have kept the fast, and you that have not,
rejoice today for the Table is richly laden!
Feast royally on it, the calf is a fatted one.
Let no one go away hungry. Partake, all, of the cup of faith.
Enjoy all the riches of His goodness!

Let no one grieve at his poverty,
for the universal kingdom has been revealed.
Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again;
for forgiveness has risen from the grave.
Let no one fear death, for the Death of our Savior has set us free.
He has destroyed it by enduring it.

He destroyed Hades when He descended into it.
He put it into an uproar even as it tasted of His flesh.
Isaiah foretold this when he said,
“You, O Hell, have been troubled by encountering Him below.”

Hell was in an uproar because it was done away with.
It was in an uproar because it is mocked.
It was in an uproar, for it is destroyed.
It is in an uproar, for it is annihilated.
It is in an uproar, for it is now made captive.
Hell took a body, and discovered God.
It took earth, and encountered Heaven.
It took what it saw, and was overcome by what it did not see.
O death, where is thy sting?
O Hades, where is thy victory?

Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!
Christ is Risen, and the evil ones are cast down!
Christ is Risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is Risen, and life is liberated!
Christ is Risen, and the tomb is emptied of its dead;
for Christ having risen from the dead,
is become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.

To Him be Glory and Power forever and ever. Amen!

It seemed appropriate to share these words of John Chrysostom, archbishop of the Holy See of Constantinople, on the Eve of Easter, when this sermon will be preached in Orthodox Churches around the world. If only we might all have the right faith it speaks of to welcome all to partake of the cup of faith.

 

[RNRobert]

It seemed appropriate to share these words of John Chrysostom, archbishop of the Holy See of Constantinople, on the Eve of Easter, when this sermon will be preached in Orthodox Churches around the world. If only we might all have the right faith it speaks of to welcome all to partake of the cup of faith.

Thanks,for the quote!

 

[jmcrae]

WOOPSIE!! I meant Carol Coombe, not Nerfherder… sorry to both of you, and my prayers will be going out to the Holy Spirit for both of you this blessed Easter

love

cradle convert

I am under the impression that nerfherder and Carol are actually the same person, using two different CAF accounts. This is based on the fact that, while I was responding, one of her messages switched from nerfherder’s account to Carol’s account.

I couldn’t figure out what was going on, until I got both messages in my e-mail; one from nerfherder and one from Carol, each with identical text.

 

[jmcrae]

Carol;

Somewhere up there, you stated that you wished that the Rites of the Church were available to everyone.

They are.

We simply ask that you partake of them in the correct order.

For adults, the Rite of Profession of Faith and the Sacrament of Confirmation come before the Sacrament of First Holy Communion.

Prior to these come Baptism and, if Baptism was a long time ago (relatively speaking), First Reconciliation (aka Confession).

One does not simply help oneself to the Sacraments and the Rites willy-nilly. (We don’t call it “organized religion” just for the heck of it. )

 

[Carol_Coombe]

Carol… I have a question…why are you judgemental about “submarines” or observing others’ behaviour in church in a judgemental manner? How do you know their hearts? Could it be that they are there at Easter because of some conversion experience or special grace?? Do you not rejoice when you see them?

Also, how can it be that you did not know you could go up for a blessing?!? Shame on your RCIA instructor!

Also, why are you not willing to wait for initiation before you take communion? Why is this a problem for you??

Genuinely curious…
cradle convert

 

[Carol_Coombe]

Carol… I have a question…why are you judgemental about “submarines” or observing others’ behaviour in church in a judgemental manner? How do you know their hearts? Could it be that they are there at Easter because of some conversion experience or special grace?? Do you not rejoice when you see them?
Also, how can it be that you did not know you could go up for a blessing?!? Shame on your RCIA instructor!
Also, why are you not willing to wait for initiation before you take communion? Why is this a problem for you??
Genuinely curious…
cradle convert

Yes, I am Carol Coombe and I am nerfherder - and have probably broken the rules. I got beaten up badly on one thread, in my own name. Further, my CAF postings were appearing on Google with my professional work on HIV - not desirable. Having two persona allowed me to take two paths and hope for better understanding and response.

I don’t think I judged anyone’s behaviour, and certainly did not intend to. We have a huge church and a complex one. Our parish priest of 14 years holds two separate services on Friday, one of them specifically for what he laughingly calls ‘submarines’. I think there was no judgement meant on either of our parts. I do regret it that there are those who take advantage of their Catholic heritage to appear once or twice a year at service. I have not heard about any Saul on the road to Damascus type conversions here - pretty staid congregants who don’t need it.

And sure, it was nice to see the church packed - as it always is. Do I rejoice when I see them? I rejoice when I see the babies and hear them bellow through service from their first month (this is precious), parents bringing children to be baptised, the kids, the servers who are young, the teenagers and early twenties who have a great programme, those who work with the young people and bring them into faith over an 11 year mandatory progrmme, when I see the older people who are learning to face the future, when I see the great throng of happy Catholics outside the church after Mass, Much of the time I rejoice that I am there. I rejoiced when my friends in the adult enquiry class last year were confirmed and took first communion.

More particularly however, I rejoice when Christ is in my heart, and I am at peace with Christ, and I often find this in the Church.

Please do not criticise Msgr. He manages one of the largest and wealthiest churches in Pretoria and is a highly visible presence in this religious community. He teaches the adult enqiry class (we do not use the term RCIA) and much else at Church and at the seminary. He also agreed to take me on when I asked him to be my spiritual director. (I am the only one he has ever taken on - we clicked immediately.) Sometimes he forgets things, but not often. Other times, he thinks things - like a blessing for me - unimportant.

I want to take communion, I do take communion. I can go, and do go occasionally, to Protestant Churches in South Africa and in Ottawa. They are not just any church down the street, but churches with which I have been associated most of my life. Only at my RCC church here in Pretoria, am I precluded from doing so.

I have a profound dislike of authority over my mind and heart, and I know that this is sinful. It has haunted me all my life, and I am not sure that I can let go now in the face of adamant Catholics: it just makes me dig my heels in further. It’s a personal thing.
And authority is not part of my earlier teaching, it is not part of my relationship with Christ then or now. It is not an aspect of the kind of Catholic Christian life that is emphasised in the parish where I attend service, or at the retreat centre where the Bishop focused me on Abba Father, a much more intimate faith with God and His Son.

That is where I am at - and perhaps it is time to leave these doctrinal shores for a more placid spiritual backwater. For me,
being a Christian is not about doctrine and rules and discipline. It is first and foremost about living through Christ, with Christ and in Christ - and vice versa. It is one’s relationship with him. I have not seen any discussion about this on this thread, although I tried hard to get one going and failed competely - heads into the same old thing of the One True Church - yes or no.

Thank you for your honest questions. I have tried to give honest answers. I regret I poked you the other day, but I felt like a bull in a Barcelona bullring and to some extent I was.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

I am under the impression that nerfherder and Carol are actually the same person, using two different CAF accounts. This is based on the fact that, while I was responding, one of her messages switched from nerfherder’s account to Carol’s account.

I couldn’t figure out what was going on, until I got both messages in my e-mail; one from nerfherder and one from Carol, each with identical text.

I have long suspected the same thing!

Iowa Mike

 

[guanophore]

I have a profound dislike of authority over my mind and heart, and I know that this is sinful. It has haunted me all my life, and I am not sure that I can let go now in the face of adamant Catholics: it just makes me dig my heels in further. It’s a personal thing.

While I know you do experience this personally at an intense level, what you are describing is only human experience. We are all naturally inclined to rebel against authority. That goes back to the garden of Eden! It is haunting, and for many of us, becomes a lifelong struggle. I can relate also to that feeling of digging in the heels being worse in the face of adamant pronouncements. For me it was not so much the individual Catholics as it was the writings and documents of the Church. There is just no wiggle room sometimes. Do not think of it, though, in human terms, but in terms of submitting to God. You have a very soft heart toward God, and the struggle you are having is because you do not recognize the authority you are struggling against as God’s. However, if you continue to yield to His work in your heart, you will be able to accept HIs yoke and His burden.

And authority is not part of my earlier teaching, it is not part of my relationship with Christ then or now.

I think it is. No one can reach the point where you have come with out submitting to the Authority of Christ in their life. You already experience His Yoke easily and His Burden lightly. You maybe are unaccustomed to submitting to people in the same way, but it certainly seems to me that you have done so with your triad of teachers.

It is not an aspect of the kind of Catholic Christian life that is emphasised in the parish where I attend service, or at the retreat centre where the Bishop focused me on Abba Father, a much more intimate faith with God and His Son.

That is where I am at - and perhaps it is time to leave these doctrinal shores for a more placid spiritual backwater. For me,
being a Christian is not about doctrine and rules and discipline.

Have you considered that God is leading you into deeper waters?

It is first and foremost about living through Christ, with Christ and in Christ - and vice versa. It is one’s relationship with him. I have not seen any discussion about this on this thread, although I tried hard to get one going and failed competely - heads into the same old thing of the One True Church - yes or no.

That is because the relationship with Christ is based first in accepting His authority over ourselves. Although you have done this personally, you are now looking at doing this corporately in a way that is unfamiliar to you, and lately, may seem unnecessary.

Thank you for your honest questions. I have tried to give honest answers. I regret I poked you the other day, but I felt like a bull in a Barcelona bullring and to some extent I was.

With due respect, this is the very character element that Christ has brought to the forefront, only to show you how it is separating you from His Body in ways He does not want. We are all people in process. You have met many of us on this board that are called to work on this, or other character defects. May we this day, be empowered with His Resurrection power that we may each one, and all together, become the persons He has created us to be.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Yes, I am Carol Coombe and I am nerfherder - and have probably broken the rules. I got beaten up badly on one thread, in my own name.

I want to take communion, I do take communion. I can go, and do go occasionally, to Protestant Churches in South Africa and in Ottawa. They are not just any church down the street, but churches with which I have been associated most of my life. Only at my RCC church here in Pretoria, am I precluded from doing so.

I have a profound dislike of authority over my mind and heart, and I know that this is sinful. It has haunted me all my life, and I am not sure that I can let go now in the face of adamant Catholics: it just makes me dig my heels in further. It’s a personal thing.

That is where I am at - and perhaps it is time to leave these doctrinal shores for a more placid spiritual backwater. For me,
being a Christian is not about doctrine and rules and discipline.

Thank you for your honest questions. I have tried to give honest answers.

Carol/Nerfherder:

Happy Easter, may the light of the risen Christ shine upon you and lead you to the fullness of truth and faith found only in his one true Universal Catholic and Apostolic Church.

As you are learning, becoming a Catholic and being a Catholic is not so easy. It is required that a Catholic accept all the doctrines and teachings of Christ’s Church. This is precisely what separates the Catholic Church from our Protestant brothers and sisters. In accepting the doctrines and teachings of the Church IS to live in the fullness of Christ’s teachings or in your words “about living through Christ, with Christ and in Christ”. It is not always easy and requires humility of heart, faith, trust, prayer and more prayer. Since the Church is truth itself, you must find your way to the truth.

Your writings regarding various core Catholic beliefs e.g. transubstantiation, inerrancy of the bible, infallibility of the pope and in this thread etc. all indicate that you are still on the journey. How will leaving this forum help you along?

This is a Catholic forum. All we discuss on this forum is living in accordance to our Catholic faith and Christian values both of which are governed by Church doctrine and teachings. Are you searching for a church without doctrine and teachings?

I pray you will stay in the forum.

Enjoy your Easter!

Iowa Mike

 

[Iowa_Mike]

While I know you do experience this personally at an intense level, what you are describing is only human experience. We are all naturally inclined to rebel against authority. That goes back to the garden of Eden! It is haunting, and for many of us, becomes a lifelong struggle. I can relate also to that feeling of digging in the heels being worse in the face of adamant pronouncements. For me it was not so much the individual Catholics as it was the writings and documents of the Church. There is just no wiggle room sometimes. Do not think of it, though, in human terms, but in terms of submitting to God. You have a very soft heart toward God, and the struggle you are having is because you do not recognize the authority you are struggling against as God’s. However, if you continue to yield to His work in your heart, you will be able to accept HIs yoke and His burden.

I think it is. No one can reach the point where you have come with out submitting to the Authority of Christ in their life. You already experience His Yoke easily and His Burden lightly. You maybe are unaccustomed to submitting to people in the same way, but it certainly seems to me that you have done so with your triad of teachers.

Have you considered that God is leading you into deeper waters?

That is because the relationship with Christ is based first in accepting His authority over ourselves. Although you have done this personally, you are now looking at doing this corporately in a way that is unfamiliar to you, and lately, may seem unnecessary.

With due respect, this is the very character element that Christ has brought to the forefront, only to show you how it is separating you from His Body in ways He does not want. We are all people in process. You have met many of us on this board that are called to work on this, or other character defects. May we this day, be empowered with His Resurrection power that we may each one, and all together, become the persons He has created us to be.

Matthew 11:28-30

**28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
**

Iowa Mike

 

[nerfherder]

Give Our Lord the benefit of believing
that his hand is leading you,
and accept the anxiety of feeling yourself
in suspense and incomplete.
Pere Teilhard de Chardin SJ

None of the trials which have come upon you is more than a human being can stand. You can trust that God will not let you be put to the test beyond your strength, but with any trial will also provide a way out by
enabling you to put up with it.
St Paul, 1 Corinthians 10:13

It is worth remembering that the time of greatest gain in terms of wisdom and inner strength is often that of greatest difficulty. Unfortunate events, though potentially a source of anger and despair, have equal potential to be a source of spiritual growth. Whether or not this is the outcome depends on our response. Dalai Lama

In humility is the greatest freedom.
As long as you have to defend the imaginary self
that you think is important, you lose your peace of heart.
As soon as you compare that shadow
with the shadows of other people, you lose all joy,
because you have begun to trade in unrealities
and there is no joy in things that do not exist.
Thomas Merton

I believe in the fundamental truth of all great religions of the world. I believe that they are all God-given and I believe that they were necessary for the people to whom these religions were revealed. And I believe that if only we could all of us read the scriptures of the different faiths from the standpoints of the followers of these faiths, we should find that they were at bottom
all one and were all helpful to one another.
Mahatma Gandhi

HAPPY EASTER!

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Give Our Lord the benefit of believing
that his hand is leading you,
and accept the anxiety of feeling yourself
in suspense and incomplete.
Pere Teilhard de Chardin SJ

None of the trials which have come upon you is more than a human being can stand. You can trust that God will not let you be put to the test beyond your strength, but with any trial will also provide a way out by
enabling you to put up with it.
St Paul, 1 Corinthians 10:13

It is worth remembering that the time of greatest gain in terms of wisdom and inner strength is often that of greatest difficulty. Unfortunate events, though potentially a source of anger and despair, have equal potential to be a source of spiritual growth. Whether or not this is the outcome depends on our response. Dalai Lama

In humility is the greatest freedom.
As long as you have to defend the imaginary self
that you think is important, you lose your peace of heart.
As soon as you compare that shadow
with the shadows of other people, you lose all joy,
because you have begun to trade in unrealities
and there is no joy in things that do not exist.
Thomas Merton

I believe in the fundamental truth of all great religions of the world. I believe that they are all God-given and I believe that they were necessary for the people to whom these religions were revealed. And I believe that if only we could all of us read the scriptures of the different faiths from the standpoints of the followers of these faiths, we should find that they were at bottom
all one and were all helpful to one another.
Mahatma Gandhi

HAPPY EASTER!

I’ll pray for you because you are miles and miles from the fullness of the Catholic Faith.

Best to you.

Iowa Mike

 

[guanophore]

I’ll pray for you because you are miles and miles from the fullness of the Catholic Faith.

Best to you.

Iowa Mike

I would like to know why you posted this reply to Carol’s quotations.

 

[mark_a]

The main focus of this thread was how Catholic arrogance is a turn-off.

And it is. Any arrogance is a turn-off.

Here’s another interesting take on how “Christians” treat each other.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=144596

 

[nerfherder]

It does not take two to separate.

Two+ parties were involved in the schism.

The protestant world is full of churches formed by people who seek a church which fits his or her individual beliefs.

Your knowledge of Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist, Quakers, United Churches, World Council of Churches is limited. RCC has negotiated with WCC over forty years: even Vatican takes reformed churches seriously. You cannot with conscience caricature the churches of fellow Christians any longer.

This model of “religion” is based on pride.

Clarify what you mean.

RCC’s trying to bring “sheep into the fold” are not arrogant. They are fighting for the Truth.

You are defending your faith. Your faith is your choice. Others, including those outside the Christian paradigm, also make choices, and this right is enshrined in national and international conventions.

Look, if you don’t believe in objective truth, you might as well just go find a denomination that suits your fancy. Pick a church that you like because of its color, or the personality of the pastor.

Why do you imply that any reasonably intelligent Christian would make that choice any more than you? I am a Christian who walks with Christ. I have a profound distaste for the uninformed caricature of mainline Christianity here: it serves no purpose and demonstrates lack of knowledge.

We do differ. In RCC, **Eucharist **is central to the service. Elsewhere, the **sermon **is the core of the service, when minister and congregation contemplate Christ’s life and what it means for us today. It does not matter how often we take communion, or whether we use bread and wine/juice for a symbolic communion. This is simply none of your business, as far as I know: you have chosen your rite, we have chosen ours.

What matters is that we make an effort at every service to understand the true nature of Christianity in daily life, and in one’s relationship with Christ. That’s a difference in priority perhaps.

… a panel of ex-Baptists agreed there are as many beliefs within the Baptist denomination] as there are pastors. The religion of many “reformers” is actually rebellion. Any authority is looked on as a pest and denyer of freedom.

Much that is false or misleading has been written on this thread about Baptists. I will give you hard facts.

**Essentials of Canadian Baptist Belief:
The Necessity of Personal Christian Experience **
We believe that a personal relationship with God, through Jesus Christ, is essential for salvation (Rom. 5:1, 8:1, etc.); that the eternal quality of life is found through repentance and faith in Christ as Saviour and Lord; nothing else is needed for that purpose.
We believe in the priesthood of all believers (1 Tim. 2:5, 1 Pet. 2:4-9, Eph. 4:12); that all mature people are able to relate to God for themselves through faith in Christ; that it is their right to do so.
We believe the church is composed of believers in Christ (I Cor. 12:12-27, Eph.4:1-16), and that local churches are groups of baptized believers united to worship God, to receive instruction in the faith, to enjoy supportive fellowship and to serve God and humanity as “the body of Christ”.

Local churches have freedom to make decisions concerning beliefs, practices, calling of ministers, organization, finances and property. Democratic procedures are accepted at all levels of church government. Wider ecclesiastical structures … do not in any way limit the autonomy of local churches. Baptists were among earliest advocates of religious freedom, and separation of church and state. They seek to implement the lordship of Christ in all spheres of life.

It is not individual interpretation that gives you freedom… It it the truth that makes you free.

I am sure you are right, and so am I.

So, all of this bickering about supremacy … means nothing…Either Christ is present… in the Blessed Sacrament … or not.

If this is important for you, go where you get His flesh and blood. For me this is not important: I must live daily as a Christian, reflect as best I can His lovingkindness, compassion, grace, courage and strength, forgiveness and guidance. That is where I am at. You are where you are at.

…uncharitable to call denomination false? It is charity to speak the truth….

You do not manifest evident charity.

Do you want to … be like sheep going astray???

Sheep get herded and slaughtered. Perhaps a swine: they get pearls.

I have said before offering love without substance is wrong. There is some caritas missing here.